Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Desiderius]

R4 are the best all-around melee levels in the game.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Is there a thread or post for companions builds?

There is, but if you've already played the game all the way through you've probably got ideas of your own you'd like to try out now, which is the fun of the game. No need to play it all the way through for that, although learning how to play a class goes smoother if you start from the beginning.

One thing to understand when looking at "builds" in Pathfinder vs 3.5 is the unique mechanics that Pathfinder uses to make single-classing competitive with multi-classing. The two most important questions to answer are:

(1) Will I need to beat saves/penetrate spell resistance

(2) What abilities does this class have that scale with class level

If the answer for (1) is yes and (2) is alot then you want to work hard to stay single-classed.

And then for companions:

(3) How do the unique abilities of this companion fit with (1) and (2)

For Tristian the answers are:

(1) Yes, his specific archetype includes Nukes, and (3) his companion quest enhances them*. You CAN use nukes without Spell Pen or worrying much about DC to clear out chaff but Tristian also wants to buff Evocation DC for his best spell (Archon's Aura) and there's a good Rod that also boosts Evocation DC so you're better off helping him own with his nukage. Nukes are very handy to balance out a buff-heavy strategy (and Cleric has some great buffs too) to help you survive ambushes.

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This was my Unfair Tinman (minimal reload) playthrough so you can see Tristian really saved the day here.

So bottom line is keep Tristian single-classed and take Feats like Spell Focus Evocation to help his nukes reach their full potential.

* -

Spoiler

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But that's only 1/3 of the story.

How do you get Tristan to have +5 or 8 strenght bonus with 9 as his strenght starting stats ?

 

[Desiderius]

How do you get Tristan to have +5 or 8 strenght bonus with 9 as his strenght starting stats ?

Easily

Play the game - it's fun.

 

[Brickfrog]

Is there a big ass write-up somewhere that I could read to learn the basics of pathfinder before I jump in to this game or should I just stick to the manual.

 

[Xamenos]

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/

This has all the tabletop rules, but some things work differently in the game.

 

[Dwarvophile]

How do you get Tristan to have +5 or 8 strenght bonus with 9 as his strenght starting stats ?

Easily

Play the game - it's fun.

I know, and I do. I love Pathfinder for the complexity it allows, but there's a lot in here, and coming from third ed, many things seemed a bit counter intuitive at first glance. Also... free time.

 

[Desiderius]

The d20 website is a big help. Pathfinder is like 3.5 but easier since single-classing is better than 90% of the ways you can multi-class.

Most important thing to understand is that Bards can sing and cast/attack at the same time and that the bonuses they give your team (Competence and Morale*) are pretty much unique.

* - figuring out how bonuses stack and using it probably most important thing in general.

 

[Tomasety]

Thanks very much for all the pictures and information provided Desiderius. I really appreaciate it and it made me realize a couple of things. I was playing Tristian with little Nuke spells which was a mistake I realize at the very end of the game and also there were some spells on your pictures I never used (another terrible mistake from my part).

Valerie and Amiri were the only 2 companions I got their build right or so I thought by multiclassing a bit. Amiri 10 Freebooter/10 Barb and Valeria 4 Rogue/9 Fighter TSS/ Stalwart 9 although I wasnt entirely sure about the last one in particular whether to take less Stalwart Defender dips and keep more TSS levels up. For instance 11 Fighter / 5 Stalwart.

On the other hand Jaethal got me intrigued at the end since she "changed" on nature and that was my main issue during the whole game and while I never used her.

The Octavia reveal was something suprising. I never thought that would be possible the same as Tristian. I have yet much to learn as I see it.

 

[Desiderius]

In fact for the first half of the game it’s hard to get more than 16 STR or so on Tristian but that’s enough with Enlarge and a Reach weapon.

You only go really big once you get Frightful Aspect at level 15 and start getting the big belts. You can get Legendary before then if you’re really into that.

Rogue on Val is pretty superfluous and her shitty Debilitating will overwrite your better Rogues (like NokNok).

 

[TigerKnee]

Damage wise, archer fighter or archer ranger is better?
Fighter has weapon training against everyone but ranger has favored enemy which can get pretty high (8-10) plus instant enemy.

Have you tried a Slayer?

 

[Desiderius]

The Octavia reveal was something suprising. I never thought that would be possible the same as Tristian. I have yet much to learn as I see it.

Well don't overthink it. This is the surprise that works best for Octavia:

But if you're looking to spice things up she can also be a solid melee tank/assassin.

 

[razvedchiki]

i like them melee.

 

[Desiderius]

Ranged Slayer is good with Throwing Axes so you can double up on Sneaks and Studied Target bonuses.

Slayer isn't great in melee unless you go Vanguard to pick up Uncanny Dodge. Otherwise really no defensive abilities whatsoever.

 

[Tomasety]

Rogue on Val is pretty superfluous and her shitty Debilitating will overwrite your better Rogues (like NokNok).

What do you suggest instead if it may be possible to know? I believe Uncanny Dogde is nice for a tank but if I can achieve it through other means, be it Barbarian or Bard (Archeologist) I'm open to suggestions. I haven't really thought about any other possibility because Rogue gives her Debilitating Injury feat and since I almost never care of poor Nok Nok she has got that covered.

 

[Desiderius]

Rogue on Val is pretty superfluous and her shitty Debilitating will overwrite your better Rogues (like NokNok).

What do you suggest instead if it may be possible to know? I believe Uncanny Dogde is nice for a tank but if I can achieve it through other means, be it Barbarian or Bard (Archeologist) I'm open to suggestions. I haven't really thought about any other possibility because Rogue gives her Debilitating Injury feat and since I almost never care of poor Nok Nok she has got that covered.

Why does Val need Uncanny Dodge? She's got AC coming out her ears and her DEX will never be sky high (STR is a lot easier to boost than DEX due to Enlarge effects). Main thing to keep in mind on Val is her high CON (opening up Kineticist) and CHR (especially if you get Oppressor) which makes TSS1/Bardx and TSS1/Feyspeakerx great. Bard can cast fine with Tower Shield! and has many cones that she's in good position to cast.

Spoiler

 

[Tomasety]

Why does Val need Uncanny Dodge? She's got AC coming out her ears and her DEX will never be sky high (STR is a lot easier to boost than DEX due to Enlarge effects). Main thing to keep in mind on Val is her high CON (opening up Kineticist) and CHR (especially if you get Oppressor) which makes TSS1/Bardx and TSS1/Feyspeakerx great. Bard can cast fine with Tower Shield! and has many cones that she's in good position to cast.

Well to avoid being caught flat-flooted mainly. I suppose this is another mistake I made? Also thanks for the suggestions, I need to check and think about Feyspeaker in particular. Didn't think about this one.

 

[Jermu]

So hows the difficulty for turn based mode? I nearly finished pathfinder when it was released with early game hard - middle/end game unfair so for turn based unfair whole game even with story companions?

 

[Desiderius]

Not really a mistake - just something to think about. You'll encounter heavily armored foes whose flat-footed AC isn't much different than their regular AC too. Usually want to attack Touch on those. Likewise the TSS11 ability that adds her Shield AC to her Touch AC really shores up a weak spot for Val.

Usually giving her Mirror Image works just as well, as long as you've got somebody who can Dispel True Seeing.

Spoiler

 

[Desiderius]

So hows the difficulty for turn based mode? I nearly finished pathfinder when it was released with early game hard - middle/end game unfair so for turn based unfair whole game even with story companions?

Story companions are better than Mercs. First few levels don't really work well with Unfair even on TB. I'd say kick it up at level 5 if you want a challenge, otherwise around 8.

I started at Challenging then Hard at 5 and Unfair at 8 last time and that worked well.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Rogue on Val is pretty superfluous and her shitty Debilitating will overwrite your better Rogues (like NokNok).

What do you suggest instead if it may be possible to know? I believe Uncanny Dogde is nice for a tank but if I can achieve it through other means, be it Barbarian or Bard (Archeologist) I'm open to suggestions. I haven't really thought about any other possibility because Rogue gives her Debilitating Injury feat and since I almost never care of poor Nok Nok she has got that covered.

Why does Val need Uncanny Dodge? She's got AC coming out her ears and her DEX will never be sky high (STR is a lot easier to boost than DEX due to Enlarge effects). Main thing to keep in mind on Val is her high CON (opening up Kineticist) and CHR (especially if you get Oppressor) which makes TSS1/Bardx and TSS1/Feyspeakerx great. Bard can cast fine with Tower Shield! and has many cones that she's in good position to cast.

Spoiler

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Well, that's interesting to have other ways to use her tanking/charisma predisposition, because I got tired of using dazzling with her, messes too much with the tactical.

 

[Desiderius]

Dazzling is better in Wrath - can even spam it as a Swift Action! Can also speed up using Advanced Weapon Training in CotW.

In P:K you can sort of pull then use it or better open with it from Stealth (tho that is REALLY tough for Val to do) but yeah it's very clunky as full round action.

 

[Mortmal]

I am pretty sure each of the good builds discussed here still stand in WOTR , so no need to make another thread . However there's not much info even on official forums, nor reddit about it .
So codexers what are the good synergies with the new mythic path ? How do you build a lich ? I read you can make a mystic theurge combo with a rank 3 ability of the lich giving stat damage by hit. So spamming magic missiles and melt by stat damage . But i also read that the mystic theurge is no good class anymore and there's book merging resulting with lower book CL.
After playing kingmaker i remember lot of stuff not landing in end game,spells , abilities and even my slayer study enemy wasnt working, so does such strategy even work ? May very well end up with enemies immune too.
So what are viable builds and good mythic path synergies ?

 

[Delterius]

where in the world is carmen sandiego?

could you be more specific pls

 

[Tomasety]

Thank you Desirius for your help, feedback and info. I started a new playthrough and made Valerie bard and stopped at lvl 6. Its probably too soon to draw conclusions yet but it feels like Linzi but melee which isn't bad to be precise. On the other hand I was rather more curious on the Feyspeaker build which you also mentioned but I decided to take that build for the main character.

I have to admit I can see its potential on Valerie as well but the Feyspeaker class was what got my eyes. It has a quiet good varierty of spells early, buffs mainly which I really find helpful. Generally speaking I find spellcasters more difficult to understand and learn to play since the array of spells is so vast and Feyspeaker has many spells that I didn't see in most companions I used on my first playthrough like "Aspect of the Bear" for example.

I wanted to make him a Feyspeaker shapeshifter but I believe I made a mistake thinking he could go in melee from start. I realized it a bit late he could carry a shield which in fact helps with the AC. It's definitely a class that promises a lot and probably gets stronger once it starts getting access to Mirror Image, Displacement, Legendary Proportions and so on.

On another related note, Smilodon pet feels unbalanced. It's too good and too strong since the beginning of the game. I don't know if pets hold their power late game but early they are totally beasts on their own.

 

[Mortmal]

Desiderius care to elaborate ? I dont remember showing you a lack of respect lately , so i would expect likewise.