Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[oneself]

Is it worth to dip 2 into eldritch archer for Ekun to get the extra attack at -2?

Not sold on pure ranger. A little behind damage wise when compared to my deliverer archer pc.

What is the Deliverer appeal? Throw a situational d6 or two around and people lose their minds. Think about what you lose compared to base class for God's sake. The EA is closer since Ranger is already a slow pet class so you're gimping Okbo, but that's not fatal.

What really hurts is losing your uptick from all your scaling abilities and spells and eventually Improved Quarry. If he is using Devourer and Deadly Aim that -2 isn't trivial either since you're relying on landing iteratives since ranged toons can change targets mid-full attack.

You may have misunderstood, my main char is a deliverer. Ekun is still a ranger. Good doggo is good.

Though I still don't know what Ranger brings to the table over the Deliverer beyond the pet. Too early to know if Ranger has some spells that can beat the sneak attack + anathema + studied target bonus.

Also how did you get a +51 bonus on the attack?

 

[Seari]

Why use Ekun when your pc already uses bows?

 

[Desiderius]

You may have misunderstood, my main char is a deliverer. Ekun is still a ranger. Good doggo is good.

Though I still don't know what Ranger brings to the table over the Deliverer beyond the pet. Too early to know if Ranger has some spells that can beat the sneak attack + anathema + studied target bonus.

Yes, I understand all that.

Deliverer sux. Hard. Compared to base Slayer. Love Slaya.

Also Hap just told you and I just showed you.

 

[Desiderius]

Also how did you get a +51 bonus on the attack?

I still sucked at that point.

Why use Ekun when your pc already uses bows?

Because it’s two toons for the price of one. If you’re fighting one of his Favorite Enemies he could own them with a Sling.

 

[oneself]

You may have misunderstood, my main char is a deliverer. Ekun is still a ranger. Good doggo is good.

Though I still don't know what Ranger brings to the table over the Deliverer beyond the pet. Too early to know if Ranger has some spells that can beat the sneak attack + anathema + studied target bonus.

Yes, I understand all that.

Deliverer sux. Hard. Compared to base Slayer. Love Slaya.

Also Hap just told you and I just showed you.

Base slayer? Are we playing the same game? I just loaded it up and base slayer has two extra feats compared to deliverer. Both get quarry and improved quarry at the same rate(14 and 19).

Why use Ekun when your pc already uses bows?

I wanted another tank, and having 6 attacks coming the backline is kinda good.

 

[Desiderius]

Yes. Two Feats (not just Feats, they're Rogue abilities/Combat Style Feats = no prereqs) >>>>>> situational 2d6 that only turns on after it sux.

That's the whole point.

Reg Quarry is unusable and if you splash EA you don't get to Improved.

 

[oneself]

Is clunkiness a RTWP only thing? I'm playing it full on turn-based.

Well I don't exactly have a large pool of feats to take from at this point, since I already took all the important archery ones. I can see a more feat heavy build needing the extra two feats, I don't know if an archer needs that.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Reg Quarry is unusable

It can be useful in easy mode TB during a surprise round or if you need to move to get in range anyway. Giving up Improved will always be painful though.

 

[Desiderius]

Is clunkiness a RTWP only thing? I'm playing it full on turn-based.

Well I don't exactly have a large pool of feats to take from at this point, since I already took all the important archery ones. I can see a more feat heavy build needing the extra two feats, I don't know if an archer needs that.

If you ever find yourself saying you’ve got too many Feats that means you’ve got a lot left to learn.

Especially on Slayer.

 

[oneself]

Is clunkiness a RTWP only thing? I'm playing it full on turn-based.

Well I don't exactly have a large pool of feats to take from at this point, since I already took all the important archery ones. I can see a more feat heavy build needing the extra two feats, I don't know if an archer needs that.

If you ever find yourself saying you’ve got too many Feats that means you’ve got a lot left to learn.

Especially on Slayer.

Probably. I don't see anything that improves my BAB, anything that gives me raw damage and anything that gives me extra attacks anymore.

 

[Desiderius]

There's a lot that you don't see.

 

[oneself]

There's a lot that you don't see.

Anything that I can't see by clicking "show feats that you can't pick"?

 

[Desiderius]

 

[Desiderius]

This was due to Trapfinding ability unique to Slayer (free Perception every other level). This was an unbuffed accident and if I wasn't already so tight on Feats she could have had Skill Focus (Perception) and had a nice mid-40s default that keeps you from missing all the important stuff.

 

[Sjukob]

So I've been messing around with call of the wild, here are some interesting things I've discovered, make of them what you will:

1. Evangelist. This cleric archetype is pretty fucking insane, it trades medium armor and shield profficiency for some bardic performances (courage, competence, greatness, heroics) that scale with his level. Basically it loses nothing and gains 4 party wide buffs. It can get even crazier if it's Erastil worshipping evangelist that can either bring a pet or guarded hearth buff. So, in the end you can get: full spell casting progression up to level 9 spells with no delays, 0,75 BAB, bardic performances, animal companion/guarded hearth or other domain powers that you fancy, energy channeling. Can a support class get any better than this?
2. Speaking of divine stuff, I took a look at warpriest class and found cult leader to be pretty dope. A cult leader gets a sneak attack progression (up to 6 dices if I'm not mistaken) and full sacred weapon progression. So you can make a guy that dual wields kukris with earthbreaker damage dice. Sadly it's not a full BAB class, but it retains divine spell casting up to 6 level spells.
3. I heard that dual wield thrown weapons can be fun, here's what I found to be cool. Ninja - the rogue archetype can get access to "flurry of darts" ki power, this ki power allows you to throw two additional darts during full round attack, but you get -2 to hit penatly on all attacks during your turn. This ki power can be taken as early as level two, the number of uses it gets = 1/2 ninja level + character's charisma modifier per day, so even if some character doesn't go deep into ninja he can still get a fair amount of "flurry of darts" uses per day with some charisma enhancing items. I felt like the attack penalties (dual wield stuff + rapid shot + flurry of darts) were too big to handly for any non full BAB class without some additional "to hit" bonuses, so after dipping 2 levels into ninja I saw only have 2 options for further progression, either freebooter or slayer. At level 10 such character makes 8 ranged attacks with haste + flurry of darts. I personally went with freebooter, but now I feel like it was a mistake, a character with so many attacks per round can really make those sneak attack dices count. The two biggest downsides for this build are: attack range - it's only 20ft, so the first turn will almost always be wasted on getting close enough to the enemy, while the usual archers can start shooting right away and that thrown weapons don't interact with ranged weapon enhancing spells, like hurricane bow and aspect of the falcon (it doesn't boost critical threat range). Still can be a fun thing if you want to try something new.
4. Insinuator - antipaladin archetype. Ever wanted to apply paladin's smite on anything in the game? Now you can. Here's how it works, at the beggining of each day you can call for an outsider of a certain allignment (lawful neutral, neutral evil and chaotic evil if I remember correctly), for the remaining day your smite will work on any foe that doesn't match outsider's alignment. The class sacrifices some things of course, no divine weapon bond, no spell casting and lay on hands can only be applied to insinuator himself. Haven't tested it beyong level 4, so can't say much about it.
   
5. Summoner. The primary feature of this calss is eidolon, which is basically a fancier pet. There are two ways to go about it: you either go animal-like eidolon and stack natural attacks (bites, gore, wing buffet, tail slaps) or biped one and stack regular attacks with weapons. The main thing about it is that eidolon can get those attacks much, much faster than any martial class can ever dream off, by level 5 you can have your eidolon swing it's greatsword 3 times per round without any buffs, each attack coming out at full BAB with no penalties to accuracy and on top of that eidolon also gets full bab progression. Your eidolon gets 1 evolution point each time the summoner levels up, these evoluition points can be spent on additional attacks, reach, skills, attributes, armor, resistances and other features, evolution points can be redistributed each level up. Eidolon (and other pets in CoTW) levels up and gets feats the same way characters do, so it can easily be your outflank buddy or dreadful carnage specialist. Eidolon can use any gear, except armor and shields (not sure if this applies to animal-like eidolons), I'm pretty sure that it can also use magic devices, although I haven't tested it personally. Summoner himself is a spontaneous arcane spell caster that can progress up to level 6 spells, he will primarily be buffing your group and his eidolon, he doesn't really get anything to make him a threat in combat and some of his feats will be spent on increasing the number of evolution points for eidolon, you can slap dazzling display on him, but not much else. I guess it's fair when his pet is so powerful.
6. Arcanist and exploiter wizard are the new best DC casters in the game. +2 to DC to any spell without affecting it's casting time or level, you get this ability at level 1 and it stacks with everything.

Was really disappointed with arsenal chaplain archetype, it gets weapon training, but doesn't get access to advanced weapon training feats, what's even the point then? By the way, has anyone looked into occultist, investigator and spiritualist classes? Do they feature any interesting things?

 

[Desiderius]

Investigator is ultimate skill monkey, with a better Studied Target variant and Alchemist Spell Book (including Personal spell sharing). Empiricist is best one.

Evangelist also loses a Domain, some Channeling, Spontaneous Healing, and Undead Evangelists don’t affect themselves with their songs.

 

[Yosharian]

Evangelist gives up a domain though. Also you lose some Channel Energy dice. Also you lose spontaneous heals.

 

[Sjukob]

Evangelist also loses a Domain, some Channeling, Spontaneous Healing, and Undead Evangelists don’t affect themselves with their songs.

Evangelist gives up a domain though. Also you lose some Channel Energy dice. Also you lose spontaneous heals.

Damn, really. Haven't even noticed reduced channeling and lack of spontaneous healing, because healing is so easy and overly abundant in kingmaker. Can't rememember clerics having 2 domain slots though, isn't it exclusive to ecclesitheurge in vanilla game? I've barely even used divine casters before playing CoTW.

Investigator is ultimate skill monkey, with a better Studied Target variant and Alchemist Spell Book (including Personal spell sharing). Empiricist is best one.

Yeah, now I see how it's really a skill monkey the class with it's inspiration and ceaseless observation mechanics.

I also forgot to mention that CoTW nerfed some classes pretty heavily, combat tricks and combat style feats (if you have an option to select it and it's not automatically granted to you on level up) can now be only taken once. So rogues, slayers, vivisectionists and some other classes have way less feats now, bard doesn't even get combat trick anymore, instead they gain versatile performance. I think that in CoTW slayer might even be outright worse than fighter.

 

[Desiderius]

Pretty sure Slayer still gets Combat Style, if not that’s a bug. They come available at the same lvls as Ranger and you have to take a first rank to get a second even if you’re lvl six.

Rogue should only get one Combat Trick, they’ve already got enough other good stuff to take.

Versatile Performance is better than Rogue Talents anyway once you figure out how they work.

 

[Yosharian]

I don't disagree with those particular changes tbh, Combat Trick is a little OP and Bards shouldn't get rogue talents at all.

Evangelist is still pretty good though.

 

[Desiderius]

Arrowsong is a nice Bard variant if you want to shake things up. Wrath has a Pal with Inspire Courage.

 

[Sergiu64]

What do you guys do with Jaethal? Inquisitor seems like such a mediocre class. Just a plain cleric instead? Or does she work as a ranger?

Also... Amiri? I kinda want to play with only crazy tanks getting into melee range so not sure if she's useless or can work as some sort of archer.

 

[Rieser]

Inquisitor is far from mediocre. I'd argue it's one of the strongest classes in the game, but then I'm far from an expert, so I won't argue.

 

[Yosharian]

What do you guys do with Jaethal? Inquisitor seems like such a mediocre class. Just a plain cleric instead? Or does she work as a ranger?

Also... Amiri? I kinda want to play with only crazy tanks getting into melee range so not sure if she's useless or can work as some sort of archer.

I have some example builds on my steam page (sig)

Not the best or anything but I think they're ok

 

[InternalRevenue]

By the way, has anyone looked into occultist, investigator and spiritualist classes? Do they feature any interesting things?

I've found the investigator to be micromanagement heavy and best in TB mode, but quite fun. Weaker than Vivisectionist in combat but with all those skill talents you'll rarely be failing checks.

Currently going through Varnhold with a Spiritualist and Occultist. Occultist is... weird to say the least. The spells they have available kinda suck overall and some schools/implements don't even have spells at certain levels, but some of the focus powers are quite nice. Mine's got Transmutation, Abjuration, and Conjuration and overall it kinda feels like a weird weakish magus with support spells and arcanist exploits. I made him strength-focused with a two-handed weapon and he can enlarge himself with focus, cast lead blades, and use an expensive form of arcane enhancement for a big chunk of damage. The Spiritualist, as flavorful as it is just feels like a weaker, less versatile Summoner. I've got a despair phantom that doesn't do much damage despite investing in evolution feats but can inflict up to -4 to enemy saves with it's miserable strikes and aura. The Spiritualist herself can't do too much either; the class does get Animate Dead but unfortunately the CotW version is much more difficult to use effectively than vanilla. The spell list seems better than the Inquisitor's though.

I've had a lot more fun with the Stonelord in this party though, which will also be in Wrath. Just got the medium elemental servant and it's surprisingly hard hitting, and the paladin itself hits hard and accurately with stonestrike and defensive stance.