Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

So does the Sensei receive Flurry of Blows or not? You said there's a bug and they get an extra attack?

 

[Desiderius]

We’re all fools at one time or another. When it comes to 3.5 style builds you’ve got:

(1) InEffect fools who think they’re so obviously superior that they bully noobs into using them exclusively in the mistaken belief that they have to, thereby missing the heart of the design and a great deal of the fun and participating in a self-fulfilling prophecy re: game difficulty.

(2) sophisticated gamers who may have even single-classed in 3.5 but did so then and do so now in the (mistaken usually) belief that they’re gimping themselves in contrast to minmaxxers and munchkins who take all the fun out of the game.

(3) people who’ve usually spent some time in (1) and/or (2) who’ve had the experience of thinking “really sux that I don’t have access to random cool 10th lvl ability/uptick for Season or 12th for VTomb” or “wow good thing I didn’t splash or I wouldn’t have random cool ability in time” enough times that we get curious about the Pathfinder design philosophy and discover that they built it that way.

Sure there are exceptions, but fewer than everyone thinks.

 

[Desiderius]

Totally agree on Human because main downside of Sensei is losing bonus Feats and if you’re going Pummeling might as well go at least 12 STR because cost is so low and it’s always your damage stat. Crane version built around CMBs and spell-like abilities you could always dump but I rarely do so since rewards just aren’t there.

There’s a difference between a dump stat and a stat that you don’t have to care about too much so can avoid spending multiple creation pts on it. On that build I posted I had STR at 14 for +2 dam and easy Power Attack access, which cost 7 pts. It would cost another 7 just to get to 16.

What is a limitation for other Monk classes (wanting high STR and WIS/CHR) becomes a strength for Sensei because the only stat you really care about is WIS.

If you want to go really hardcore you can splash INQ for last three levels (after Courage maxxes out) to get WIS to initiative and Solo Tactics.

 

[Seari]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/ky34mz/new_valerie_build_plus_bug/

I had to share this. Peak character building right here. "Good rp build"

 

[Desiderius]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/ky34mz/new_valerie_build_plus_bug/

I had to share this. Peak character builiding right here. "Good rp build"

 

[oneself]

Generally I think I prefer a Kinetic Knight to an (non-vivisectionist) alchemist. Of course the latter can be more of a gamechanger/boss killer. And sharing certain personal spells is cool.

When did this the kk being good consensus form? The inability to perform composite blast kinetic blade with 0 overflow seriously killed my desire to keep Valerie as a kk. I just rerolled her into a freebooter instead.

Also the no AoO is a dealbreaker.

 

[Yosharian]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/ky34mz/new_valerie_build_plus_bug/

I had to share this. Peak character builiding right here. "Good rp build"

This has to be a troll post. Mystic Theurge, even, at the end? No fucking way.

 

[Desiderius]

Generally I think I prefer a Kinetic Knight to an (non-vivisectionist) alchemist. Of course the latter can be more of a gamechanger/boss killer. And sharing certain personal spells is cool.

When did this the kk being good consensus form? The inability to perform composite blast kinetic blade with 0 overflow seriously killed my desire to keep Valerie as a kk. I just rerolled her into a freebooter instead.

Also the no AoO is a dealbreaker.

Whirlwind makes up for no AoO. I think it formed when people figured out you get iteratives with Kinetic Blade (you don't with Blast). IIRC you can Gather Low to do zero Burn Composite Whirlwind since that's a Standard Action while using Full Attacks (with iteratives) against single targets.

Val Freebooter is a waste of her best two stats.

 

[oneself]

Generally I think I prefer a Kinetic Knight to an (non-vivisectionist) alchemist. Of course the latter can be more of a gamechanger/boss killer. And sharing certain personal spells is cool.

When did this the kk being good consensus form? The inability to perform composite blast kinetic blade with 0 overflow seriously killed my desire to keep Valerie as a kk. I just rerolled her into a freebooter instead.

Also the no AoO is a dealbreaker.

Whirlwind makes up for no AoO. I think it formed when people figured out you get iteratives with Kinetic Blade (you don't with Blast). IIRC you can Gather Low to do zero Burn Composite Whirlwind since that's a Standard Action while using Full Attacks (with iteratives) against single targets.

Val Freebooter is a waste of her best two stats.

is the 0 burn whirlwind a bug?

 

[Desiderius]

You’re almost there. Really takes off with Supercharge. You should still be doing solid damage at that point though. What Infusions are you using? Are you using your Meta skills?

Remember that KK also gets the equivalent of Combat Expertise for free so you can also focus on stuff that has it as a prereq. So for instance you can Charge in to turn on Fighting Defensively, then Gather Low and whack something with a big Empowered hit with Pushing Infusion and Greater Bull Rush, tossing it across the screen and triggering AoOs for everyone else.

Every turn.

 

[Desiderius]

Whirlwind is ninth level. I don’t think it’s a bug for KK since you don’t get so many of the class features it gets in PnP. Probably is a bug that other Kinnies (like Kalikke) get it too but it’s unusual for a non-KK Kinnie to be using it in the first place (KK is the melee version while others are designed to operate at range).

 

[KK1001]

is this game shit or not

 

[Desiderius]

is this game shit or not

Find better sources.

 

[Sweeper]

is this game shit or not

 

[Desiderius]

CotW has all the cool KK stuff that Vanilla left out (including Water AC bonus stacking with existing Enhancement - Holic fixed it after yelling at me for flagging it) but you have to turn off his ghey custom companions if you want to try it on Val.

I like PsychoKin on Harrim as well.

 

[LannTheStupid]

is this game shit or not

This game is shit.

 

[Desiderius]

Here's Ninth level Val from the playthrough where she was KK:

So 40-some damage a whack unbuffed with a Greater Trip attached for 2 burn or you can Gather to reduce it to 1 burn. Haste gets you to three whacks. Suppose you could Gather Medium and move then unload for zero burn the following turn.

Alternatively you can do half that as Bludgeoning (Earth) or Energy vs Touch (Fire) but then you get the iteratives with Trip attached (sadly only on the Earth since KK's Infusions are delayed, you'll eventually get Flash which Blinds on the Fire Attack but will want Whirlwind at 11) for Zero burn even without Gather.

This was a Charge so no iteratives. She got three whacks at the Owlbear earlier in the fight. Still have to use STR as your attack stat (so probably should have buffed it here, though notice that Overflow does help AB even though it doesn't help damage on Blade) but you do get to use CON for CMB. Once she picks up Fury's Fall and boosts her DEX she'll be a decent Tripper. I still prefer the Water/Bull Rush I think. Wreaks more havoc.

Flip side is that the Water Defense ability doesn't stack with armor and shield on Vanilla (it does on CotW) while Earth DR does go well with what Val is doing. KKnight is missing a great deal of what makes it worthwhile in Vanilla. If you want to play melee Kin you're probably better off there with Kalikke while if you want to try out KKnight best bet is CotW.

 

[Desiderius]

According to d20, you’re supposed to have a hand free to Gather at all*, and if you take damage while Gathering it forces a Concentration check that does burn to you if you fail it.

So looks like the point of KKnight is to trade Gather for Shield Use and iteratives. This is why Knight doesn’t get Metakinesis (a frequent use of Gather is to Empower Blasts that Infusion Specialization has reduced to zero burn cost) or Supercharge.

Probably also why Whirlwind is “bugged” to cost zero burn. It’s a kludgy way to make it work with Knight.

* - according to d20 KKnight can spend one burn per day to allow it or whatever. Not in game so can still Gather. Bottom line is still Full Attacks = no Gather. Blast is Standard Action, Blade isn’t.

 

[Haplo]

Personally I'm a fan of Electric -> Water. Electric is an accurate Touch Attack. With Magnetic Infusion debuffs enemy AC by 4 for the rest of your martials, no save. And Celerity (Haste) is simply great on a KK, who has no other Burn spenders before Composite Blasts (and even after, spending Burn on them outside of boss fight is a waste).

Later can use Pushing with Water, if you enjoy that.

 

[Desiderius]

You spend burn early to boost DR* with Earth, and you get Trip and Greater Trip for Wild Talents immediately. Celerity, like Haste, doesn’t do much early. But yeah, Magnetic is nice. Don’t forget to Power Attack to add some damage to that Touch attack if you’re going that way. This is why Kal has Deadly Aim.

Alternatively Fire lets you pick up Dazzling and Dreadful as Wild Talents while also giving you an early Energy Attack. Problem is I don’t think Flash Infusion (Blinding) is available early enough.

* - DR is prior to Unfair damage doubling so better than it looks

My guess is that the way the class is actually implemented in P:K that you’re better off with base Kin on Val since she comes with the Armor/Shield proficiency already.

Main benefit of Water is giving you a Shield that keeps growing with level and burn (see Kalikke) or Armor if you want to splash Monk and go PsychoKin with Crane. Val needs neither.

Feels like a waste not to use the free CMs tho.

 

[Haplo]

I prefer actually hitting enemies. And making enemies much easier to hit for the rest of the party. Plus I don't see that much value in rapid early CMs without optimized CMB. On higher difficulties, they will stick somewhat reliably only on casters, particularly early on.

Free demoralizing feats from Fire are nice. But I've largely moved away from Dazzling. And Celerity is simply fantastic. 3-10 extra casts of Haste per rest, without wasting any spellslots? Yes, please. Sure it may only last 5 rounds at level 6... but you're free to almost spam it as needed. And its impact at low level... Well, for most characters it doubles the amount of attacks at low levels. Without sacrificing any AB. Nuff said.
I've rarely used Haste at low levels due to spellslot conservation. But Celerity? All the time. Can spend all Burn and my Bard/mage will still have some reserve spell slots in case of a boss fight or something.

 

[Yosharian]

Why not largely move away from Haste, too? It's really op.

 

[Haplo]

Why not largely move away from Haste, too? It's really op.

I've mostly moved away from Dazzling because its cumbersome to use post-nerf, not because I'm skipping demoralizing enemies

 

[NJClaw]

Why not largely move away from Haste, too? It's really op.

I've mostly moved away from Dazzling because its cumbersome to use post-nerf, not because I'm skipping demoralizing enemies

Now that Lingering Performance is no longer bugged the game is unplayable and shit, Gregz was right all along.

I will never forgive Owlcat for giving us a taste of heaven and then kicking us down to hell.

 

[Yosharian]

Ugh. I shouldn't post when I've just gotten up in the morning. Too groggy