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On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

Curufinwe

Learned
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
271
Location
Italy
It would be nice to actually know what C entails. Say Curufinwe, why not include them in this update? I see no reason for the fixation on having only three options.

Actually I did not fixate on three options. We had fewer or more in past updates. I do though fixate on 'topics' on updates. And this one is about the potential domestication of bears or wolves. Option C basically is a 'Are you sure you want to domesticate them, or would you rather be doing something else?'
What the something else will be could be what Monty said, the same options I gave yesterday, or something different. You'll find out in about 15 hours and a half. :p
 

Internet

Scholar
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
136
B. It's unlikely it will succeed, but if you have a small chance to develop bear cavalry you have to take it. We aren't exactly on earth, so it may work.

BearCavalry.jpg
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,952
Voting C.

Domesticating wolves potentially has great benefits for us, but it is a very long term project. There are more pressing things to do first. We need better shelter, better weapons (atlatl, slings, archery, wooden shields - whatever can give the edge), better tools (needles, ropes, nets, eventually maybe pottery), fishing and boats (or did we already get those from the refugees?). Starting some agriculture would be nice too, but probably would take a lot of time. Do we know how to preserve meat by smoking it?

Domesticating bears is just nuts (awesome, but nuts).
 

AstralStorm

Educated
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
68
Location
Land of Underground Orange
Domesticating wolves potentially has great benefits for us, but it is a very long term project.
That's why I feel we should start with this and follow with the rest.

There are more pressing things to do first. We need better shelter, better weapons (atlatl, slings, archery, wooden shields - whatever can give the edge), better tools (needles, ropes, nets, eventually maybe pottery), fishing and boats (or did we already get those from the refugees?).

However, either order is fine with me, as long as we're in position to do all of this. For textiles and river-grass tools, the river is probably the best bet. For stone and wooden tools, likely the mountains.

Starting some agriculture would be nice too, but probably would take a lot of time.

I wonder how many beasts of burden we currently have... However, we don't even have the right tools to handle grains. We'll have to visit the river first for that.

Do we know how to preserve meat by smoking it?
I'd think so, since we know how to cook it. We don't have access to salt or cool storage though - both could be in caves.

Domesticating bears is just nuts (awesome, but nuts).
16238_182449024015_182448464015_3113858_6053198_n.jpg

Just place zebras here instead of horses.
 

Lindblum

Augur
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
659
Bears are awesome! Lets name him Roosevelt!
Wait till we start pumping out cyborg bears in the far far future...

Why would you turn down the chance to domesticate bears or dogs?

shepherdattack2.jpg



*cough* CYOA *cough*
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
...

:rage:

Even if it does work, we'll be so far behind technologically. If our hunters with obsidian spears can kill a bear without much trouble, imagine what a bunch of well-trained soldiers with bronze armor and weaponry will do. Mark my words, investing our time in this idiotic idea will be a fucking disaster. We need to make better men, not build a fucking circus full of dancing bears and zebras - that's fucking retarded. Fuck domestication, at this point, doing anything else is better than putting yet another wacky creature in our tribal petting zoo. Bears have no uses other than for warfare (and that's if we can domesticate them in the first place, which is a serious long shot since they are solitary beasts) and a zebra is just as effective as a mount, while at the same time having much more utility since it can be used as a draft animal while a bear cannot. I'll take a few disciplined, well-trained hoplites over a pack of bears any day of the week.

AstralStorm: We have zebras as our beasts of burden. Sheep can be used to provide clothes, milk and food.
 

Vernydar

Learned
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
579
Location
Italy
I have to agree. Bears are by far the worst of the three options

- How can we even succeed? You do know we do not have ropes, precincts, anything else? Where do you plan to keep bears? Have them sleep with us in the open under the stars? Wouldn't they eat us?
- Even if by some freak accident we manage to, who's going to feed them? And for what? Bears eat a huge amount, and outside of war they have no use. At least dogs have a lot of other uses, for example hunting and controlling the tamed beasts.
- You do know that bears go into hibernation a few months every year right? Even if we manage to do this, what use are they if we get attacked in the winter?

- But most important, do you guys realize that we're most likely really starting to lag behind on technology? Like, REALLY lag behind. We're progressively becoming the barbarians of this world. We only tame beasts and use spears. Much good it will do to have bears when legions and phalanxes march upon us. We don't even have containers of any sort, nor shelter....
 

Lindblum

Augur
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
659
But it would be an interesting civilization wouldn't it?
I don't want to watch the rise of a generic civilization mimicking history with a few differences.

After finding out about dragons/ wyverns, my hope in this LP has returned and I want to see something interesting.
All your points are correct and valid but its just not FUN.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
But it would be an interesting civilization wouldn't it?
I don't want to watch the rise of a generic civilization mimicking history with a few differences.

After finding out about dragons/ wyverns, my hope in this LP has returned and I want to see something interesting.
All your points are correct and valid but its just not FUN.

Who's to say that there aren't interesting things out in the caves? There might be metals there that don't even exist on earth (i.e. mithril) or perhaps strange creatures in there? Maybe there's magic out there too. Anyways, I don't even find the bear-taming particularly interesting - it's the same shit we've been doing for a while now. We've been taming animals for-fucking-ever, I think it would be cool to do something else.

That being said, Wojtek the soldier-bear is just about the broest animal on the planet.
 

Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,026
Funny, people want to develop metallurgy when we don't even have furnaces, stop metagaming, also, iron pwned bronze.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
3,181
Funny, people want to develop metallurgy when we don't even have furnaces, stop metagaming, also, iron pwned bronze.
But bears aren't optimal, don't you see? You're dooming all of us! There's nothing we can do against unarmed beastmen is pelts, unless we evolve into SPQR by the time they arrive! Quick, form a senate!


Nah, I'm kidding you OCD bros. Nothing wrong with being sensible. But we do need some fun stuff, from time to time, and what could be more awesomely fuckyeah than bear riders? Nothing, that's what! Assuming our GM doesn't outright kill the primitive monkeys trying to dominate a major predator. But what the hell, you only get eaten once.
 

Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,026
First the bears then the wyverns, I want to be a dragon(rider).
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,952
OK, seriously. You cannot domesticate bears. At most you can tame a particular bear, but it will always remain a very dangerous and unpredictable animal. Chance of training it to be more dangerous to enemy then your own side in battle? Next to none. And that's assuming our tamers have experience with large dangerous animals (which they don't) and have the tools necessary (like freaking ropes for one thing). All this is going to get us is a lot of mauled or dead hunters and tamers. Yes, I'm assuming these animals are similar to real bears, but given that no animal we found so far has been different then its real world equivalent, I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption.

Any yes, we cannot jump straight to metalworking, but we might at least make a start on pottery which might eventually (with the development of kilns) lead to metalworking. But seriously, bears?!
 

Lindblum

Augur
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
659
Curufinwe whats our progress into Naval technology?
Can you drop some hints into the next update, its been a good while and I want to know what the slaves freeloaders are doing.
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
And that's assuming our tamers have experience with large dangerous animals (which they don't) and have the tools necessary (like freaking ropes for one thing). All this is going to get us is a lot of mauled or dead hunters and tamers. Yes, I'm assuming these animals are similar to real bears, but given that no animal we found so far has been different then its real world equivalent, I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption.
Our hunters easily tamed zebras without any problem or equipment, and in the real world zebras are far too aggressive to be tamed. This is a different world, you can relax.

I'm voting B.
 

Internet

Scholar
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
136
I understand why some people want to discard bears and focus on something else.

But come on guys, there is still an unidentified horde out there that could show up any week. In face of this danger, shouldn't we just take advantage of our most proven ability (taming) to mount a defense (tame the baddest beast we find) quickly? We shouldn't rely on those people not finding us until we've already evolved to the bronze age.

Plus, I don't know, dancing bears have been around since medieval times. Maybe their introduction could trigger the tribe attempting some shamanic ritual or something. And their pelts will keep us warm.
 

Curufinwe

Learned
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
271
Location
Italy
Jesus H. Christ... you really went for the bears.


images


The council, against the voices of the more conservative tamers and the rest of the tribe, decided to focus the tribe's resources into trying to domesticate the mighty bear. Soon enough one thing became apparent: it would not happen soon, nor would it happen easily.

The first months passed with failure following failure. Often gruesome, bloody failures. We lost several too eager tamers in those first days.
The great black bears didn't just seem to care about our attempts. They saw us as food, or as a nuisance, or as a danger to be avoided.
Then winter came, and with it we learned about the long sleep habits of the beast. More months passed, and it appeared we were going to waste time, lives and effort in exchange for nothing.

Then, after more than an year of fruitless attempts, came a stroke of luck. A breakthrough. Three bear cubs, one almost white, one light brown and one, the biggest, the deepest black, were found next to the corpse of their mother. One resourceful tamer managed to gain their trust with morsels of meat, staying next to them for weeks on end, until they started following him around, even back to camp.

In the following years, a few such lucky events happened, but problems arose as well, until the idea was all but abandoned: first, the bears, once grown, showed a prodigious appetite. It became painfully apparent we wouldn't be able to feed more than an handful of them, or risk depleting our food stocks. Second, they bonded only with their own tamers. They didn't care one whit about other men, disobeyed their orders and, in an incident that became infamous, became aggressive when they felt their owner was threatened by another member of the tribe: a simple argument between one tamer and a member of the elders freed up a place in the council and caused the death of one of our few bears.

Yet from then on, the most daring of the tamers took upon themselves, as a rite of maturity, to attempt bear taming. Few succedeed, but those who did gained a stalwart companion for life.

What effective benefits it would give to the tribe as a whole was yet to be seen....

In those years though, with the initial enthusiasm for bear taming chilling somewhat, progress was made on the river-wisdom of what were once refugees and now were valuable members of the tribe on their own. Boats became a common sight in the river next to camp, and fish became a regular part of our diet.

Finally it was time to decide again where our energies would go next:

A. The eldest spoke first: 'We wasted good years on this fool's errand, trying to domesticate an animal that is too proud, too fierce to become our slave. The ways to the mountain are open, we are not afraid of the beasts lurking there anymore. We must learn more about its slopes and the resources that are hiding there.'
B. The boat masters spoke second: 'Although we agree that it's important to know more about the mountain, it's been long years since our fathers fled from their ancestral homes. We need to send stealthy boats downriver at least to the hills. Our old enemy could be moving towards us as we speak!'
C. One of the scouts, known as a daredevil, proposed: 'Why send boats downriver when we could just climb the upper reaches of the mountain and have our eyes see everything around us? Let's climb the peak and establish a permanent scouting post on top of the mountain!'
D. Finally, some scavengers hesitantly said: 'For many years now we observed the vegetation in this area. We found some edible plants, but we need to focus our energies into studying them.'
 

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