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On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Gonna go with B, although we're probably still too primitive to be able to into metallurgy, having knowledge on the mountain would be very useful should we be attacked.

Isn't that what C is for? Hunting, gaining some combat experience, getting the lay of the land so that we're familiar with the local predators of the area. B is more for finding metals and scoping out the caves. From a defensive standpoint, I think the caves are bad news. If we are in a position where we're attacked by barbarians and we need to retreat into the caves, any invaders could simply block the entrance and starve us out - it would be a disaster.

On the other hand, if we know the local wildlife, the layout of the deep forests around the mountain, we could use our knowledge of the terrain to live off the land and use it against any would-be attackers.

Voting C
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
3,181
C. For reasons already mentioned: no mining/metallurgy ability, no defensive use out of the caves and exploration of farther lands is less useful than knowing our immediate surroundings, at this point. Plus, remotely possible tamed war beasts? Fuck yeah!
 

Curufinwe

Learned
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
271
Location
Italy
C Kill the bear and assimilate it!
images


:hmmm:
 

Vernydar

Learned
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
579
Location
Italy
Isn't that what C is for? Hunting, gaining some combat experience, getting the lay of the land so that we're familiar with the local predators of the area. B is more for finding metals and scoping out the caves. From a defensive standpoint, I think the caves are bad news. If we are in a position where we're attacked by barbarians and we need to retreat into the caves, any invaders could simply block the entrance and starve us out - it would be a disaster.

B is also for searching new resources, and exploring the mountain. Which we have not done yet. we know nothing of the mountain... We haven't even climbed up there yet.
 

m4davis

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
557
Isn't that what C is for? Hunting, gaining some combat experience, getting the lay of the land so that we're familiar with the local predators of the area. B is more for finding metals and scoping out the caves. From a defensive standpoint, I think the caves are bad news. If we are in a position where we're attacked by barbarians and we need to retreat into the caves, any invaders could simply block the entrance and starve us out - it would be a disaster.

B is also for searching new resources, and exploring the mountain. Which we have not done yet. we know nothing of the mountain... We haven't even climbed up there yet.
that makes some sense but C gives us a better idea of what lives here and its potential threats as well as a better understanding of the more practical area while b is something we want to do eventually it won't be very useful as anything other then religious matters and should be attended to in a time of relative peace now is not that time
 

AstralStorm

Educated
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
68
Location
Land of Underground Orange
Yes, I consider C to be reconnessaince by force. Either the hunters will find the beasts and perhaps conquer some
(which might give us some good sources of furs if anything) or they'll find nothing special.
Although the hunters will be looking for beasts and other enemies, they might stumble upon something else of interest.

The only possible problem I forsee is if something decides to attack us right now while the hunters are out. We've prepared the militia, but that might not be enough if we're really unlucky.
 

Vernydar

Learned
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
579
Location
Italy
Yes, I consider C to be reconnessaince by force. Either the hunters will find the beasts and perhaps conquer some
(which might give us some good sources of furs if anything) or they'll find nothing special.
Although the hunters will be looking for beasts and other enemies, they might stumble upon something else of interest.

Uhm, yes, they will look for the animals, and maybe stumble upon something. But it is NOT the same as choice B. They will not explore the cave. They will not explore the mountain. They will not climb to the top.

It simply is a completely different choice. Not saying it's bad or something, but let's not assume that we will find the same information....
 

Curufinwe

Learned
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
271
Location
Italy
Ok. 6-8 for C right now. I have the update ready for C, but since a single flip could change everything I'll wait about 20 minutes before posting. Last chance to change your mind!
 

m4davis

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
557
Yes, I consider C to be reconnessaince by force. Either the hunters will find the beasts and perhaps conquer some
(which might give us some good sources of furs if anything) or they'll find nothing special.
Although the hunters will be looking for beasts and other enemies, they might stumble upon something else of interest.

Uhm, yes, they will look for the animals, and maybe stumble upon something. But it is NOT the same as choice B. They will not explore the cave. They will not explore the mountain. They will not climb to the top.

It simply is a completely different choice. Not saying it's bad or something, but let's not assume that we will find the same information....
yes and as I have said in my earlier it just doesn't make sense the only thing it could do for us right now is satisfy a spiritual need its not going to do anything good for us we can't take refuge in the caves if we find metals we still can't get them out or forge them and climbing the mounting will give us the spiritual satisfaction and a unfocused view of the rest of the land the mountains don't make a particularly good place to hide if we are defeated and its just has much greater risk then B with almost none of the benefit
 

Vernydar

Learned
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
579
Location
Italy
anything good for us we can't take refuge in the caves if we find metals we still can't get them out or forge them and climbing the mounting will give us the spiritual satisfaction and a unfocused view of the rest of the land the mountains don't make a particularly good place to hide if we are defeated and its just has much greater risk then B with almost none of the benefit

I am not thinking of metal, we're at LEAST 1000 years too early for that. But we could find anything on this mountain. A defensible place. A place to hide. Something else to eat (mushrooms maybe?), a place where we can stock food. Or, the idea that we need to get something over our head (which leads to huts or tents) maybe? Or, just going up, and seeing the places around us (you know, from higher up you see farther).

The point is, I think we really need to explore this mountain. There's probably untold resources to be found there. Or MAYBE in some cave we could find a nest of flesh eating monsters and decide that we're better off somewhere else. But until we explore, we know nothing.
 

Curufinwe

Learned
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
271
Location
Italy
Ok. No late flipping, C it is.

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images



The fear of distant enemies momentarily gone, we could focus again on the beasts living in the mountain next to us. In the following weeks, several expeditions were mounted. Their objective: observe the habits of the bears and find out anything about the shadowy stalkers.

The results were comforting: both beasts clearly tended to avoid our men when they spotted us, preferring to hunt down easier prey. Our new obsidian weapons could penetrate even the thickest fur, until the hunters declared that they could deal easily with any attack.

The great bear was a solitary animal, living in small family groups. The shadowy stalker, once we managed to observe it, appeared to have a pack mentality: it hunted like we did, luring its prey in deadly ambushes, retreating when outmatched, bringing numbers when the strength of the few could not suffice. A very smart beast.

Now we just had to decide what to do next:

The tamers, once reassured about the effective danger the beasts posed, appeared intrigued.

A. Some proposed: 'The wolf (thus we named the shadowy stalker) appears to be a very smart animal. Domesticating them could bring great help in our herding duties, and they could protect us and our animals effectively.'
B. Other tamers were attracted by the great, majestic bear: 'While fewer in numbers, the bears clearly exhibit greater strength. If we could ally with this beast any enemy we meet in the future will have to think twice before attacking us.'
C. The keepers of fire and some hunters chimed in: 'There is no guarantee we will manage to tame any of these animals. They are predators, it was never attempted. Now that we know they pose no real danger and the surrounding area is open, we should focus on other enterprises' (Author note: option C does not advance 'time' but just opens up other avenues).
 

m4davis

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
557
A as has been said we need numbers and a single pack of wolves could easily decimate a single bear as well as leading possibly leading to some culture in the future
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
3,181
B. I really want to be sensible and vote for wolf taming, but I'm too curious if Curufinwe will allow us the majestic...

bear_af883b_821304.jpg
 

AstralStorm

Educated
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
68
Location
Land of Underground Orange
A.

I'm thinking wolves can always be used to shepherd if they get tamed enough. Or of course attack whatever stands in our way.
Bears would be interesting, but a pack can probably take a bear. Plus if they are smart, they will be even easier to tame.
 

Vernydar

Learned
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
579
Location
Italy
C

As much as war bears sound tempting, domesticated wolves (and down the line, dogs) are even more tempting. Useful in a lot of situations, not only in war...

I am flipping to C. I thought about it more, and I agree that we have more urgent things to do right now. Plus, we have no shelter, no ropes, no precincts, nothing. It would be extremely hard, inconvenient and unrealistic to hope to tame a lot of them.

It is simply too soon. And we have more urgent things to do right now. Taming the wolves can wait
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
C

I think trying to tame the bears is a terrible idea. They are solitary creatures, so they won't be quite as receptive to following a human leader the same way that a pack beast like the wolf would. Wolves may not be as terrifying as bears would be on the battlefield (think of the panic that Hannibal's elephants must have caused in Roman ranks), but they are still an asset and they can actually provide help for the tribe in peaceful tribes by aiding us in hunting. That being said, domesticating wolves is still a very tricky proposition anyways - they are still aggressive predators and they're probably not docile enough to tame.

Also, this:

A. Some proposed: 'The wolf (thus we named the shadowy stalker) appears to be a very smart animal. Domesticating them could bring great help in our herding duties, and they could protect us and our animals effectively.'

Sounds completely insane. How the hell would wolves help us in our herding duties? Who the fuck has ever heard of wolves protecting sheep?

Also, I think we've spent too much time domesticating animals at this point. I think we need to branch out a bit in terms of our knowledge. While I guess domesticating some wolves can be useful, I'd much rather see what else we can learn.
 

m4davis

Scholar
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
557
heres something for you who has ever heard of dogs herding sheep the ideas the same put a strong omnivore in charge of a weak herbivore while we provide for the omnivore and train it to think of the sheep as part of its pack
 

Monty

Arcane
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,582
Location
Grognardia
Except a wolf is a carnivore not an omnivore.

Anyway, I vote:
C

I agree with Esquilax, think we've done enough taming for now and should get on with exploring the mountain and surrounding area.
 

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