On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

[m4davis]

Except a wolf is a carnivore not an omnivore.

Anyway, I vote:
C

I agree with Esquilax, think we've done enough taming for now and should get on with exploring the mountain and surrounding area.

just double checked my self there omnivores that mostly use hunting but still omnivores

 

[Esquilax]

... And are way more aggressive than a herding dog anyways.

But I don't wanna get bogged down in a silly comparison between wolves and herding dogs, that was just me going on a mini-rant anyways and it wasn't the point of what I was saying.

My point is that we have spent a lot of time on domestication and I can't help but feel that it's getting to the point where we're neglecting a lot of other areas (i.e. fishing, boat-making, discovering a few metals) that could potentially be of much more use to the tribe. I know that people don't like picking the "Do nothing" option, but I feel that it's the smart play here because we'll be able to spend our time gaining knowledge in a field that we're not familiar with rather than just doing the same shit over again. Domestication is fine, but I think we've been doing it to the exclusion of other pursuits far too much.

 

[m4davis]

how so we used to domesticate zebras and just did the exact same thing only easier with sheep I will admit that we are eventually going to need to do something new but once again its just not the time and its not like were sending absolutely everyone out to domesticate them what we need right now is strength and thats what this provides any other paths to it right now is just a longer path to something that will have about or less impact on the battlefield oh also like I said the key to getting herding dogs or anything else on that matter to not cause problems is to first keep them well fead so that they don't need to eat them and then make them think of them as a part of there pack so that they want to help and defend them

 

[AstralStorm]

I like my commas, points and semicolons; give them the respect they deserve.

I'm also thinking that's enough of the taming, but *after* we have a probable war and hunting beast. (later perhaps a guard and shepherd too)

 

[Esquilax]

I disagree. Other than the obsidian find earlier on and the recent scare with the barbarian tribe, I'd say domestication is practically all we've been doing. We have already domesticated two animals - do we really need another one at the moment? Sure, the wolves can be useful, but we've put so much of our efforts there already that I think we're just going to be getting diminishing returns from here on out. Yeah, they can be useful on the battlefield, but we've got a well-armed militia with good weaponry already.

Besides, couldn't we start riding our zebras into combat? I mean eventually, not right now since it isn't an option. We've already domesticated them anyways, and they seem to be more useful both on and off the battlefield than the wolves are.

Having said that, I concede that the wolves would serve as great Stone Age shock troops. Any barbarians attack us, and we can simply release the hounds and throw their ranks in disarray. While they're busy trying to fend off our wolves, our men can launch throwing spears at their enemies. We'd be able to destroy groups that outnumber us pretty easily with a tactic like this. So yeah, A has very good uses for warfare. But with the quality of weaponry and the numbers we have, I don't think we'll need it.

 

[Jick Magger]

C
(think of the panic that Hannibal's elephants must have caused in Roman ranks)

They didn't, by that point Rome had developed effective anti-elephant tactics to deal with them (including shit like loud horns, and simply letting them pass as they charged into formations), and most of them died in his crossing of the alps.

Now when they were used earlier by King Pyrrhus, THAT was when entire armies were routing from the battlefield at the sight of war elephants.

 

[m4davis]

C
(think of the panic that Hannibal's elephants must have caused in Roman ranks)

.

They didn't, by that point Rome had developed effective anti-elephant tactics to deal with them (including shit like loud horns, and simply letting them pass as they charged into formations), and most of them died in his crossing of the alps.

Now when they were used earlier by King Pyrrhus, THAT was when entire armies were routing from the battlefield at the sight of war elephants.

so your vote is

 

[Jick Magger]

I'm probably gonna go with A here.
Flip Flopped to C, the chance of moving to the Bronze age and becoming dorfs a bit earlier is too enticing for me.

 

[Tigranes]

C

Esquilax is right - I don't think we're going to end up with pet bears or wolves, and C is giving us a nice option that doesn't actually advance any time in the world - so it doesn't screw us on the barbarian horde front. It almost seems as if we needed to do this to assuage the Codexians' speculations on the mystery animal, but now I think we're better off thinking about metallurgy, stonework and other techniques that can lead us to proper weaponry, fortifications and architecture in the long run.

Also, sorry, but m4davis' arguments mostly flew past me in their unhinged, manic craziness, their ferocious speed unleashed by a total lack of punctuation.

 

[oscar]

It would be nice to actually know what C entails. Say Curufinwe, why not include them in this update? I see no reason for the fixation on having only three options.

 

[m4davis]

C

Esquilax is right - I don't think we're going to end up with pet bears or wolves, and C is giving us a nice option that doesn't actually advance any time in the world - so it doesn't screw us on the barbarian horde front. It almost seems as if we needed to do this to assuage the Codexians' speculations on the mystery animal, but now I think we're better off thinking about metallurgy, stonework and other techniques that can lead us to proper weaponry, fortifications and architecture in the long run.

Also, sorry, but m4davis' arguments mostly flew past me in their unhinged, manic craziness, their ferocious speed unleashed by a total lack of punctuation.

its ok I can understand it happens but rest assured if you ever do try to decipher them there are valid points in there

 

[Vernydar]

Esquilax arguments make sense. I was somewhat blinded by the fact we do not have other visible options here. But we have far more urgent things to do right now, rather than taming yet another animal. As such, i flipped to c.

We are still living with no shelter, under the very stars, exposed to the elements. We are still lacking extremely basic things like ropes, we can still improve our weapons, our quality of living. We can learn how to use boats. We can learn how to fish. There are so many things we can learn, and all this time we've only been taming new animals.

Besides even if we do manage to domesticate something, it won't be in great numbers as we lack shelter, ropes, precincts. How do you plan to keep a wolf around during the night while you try to domesticate him? always have someone awake keeping him pinned down?

I also am curious to know what other options we can have, surely they must be better than this.

To m4davis: Seriously, mate, punctuation is your friend. Sorry but I've been to enough forums in my life, I can't be bothered to read a stream of consciousness wall of text without punctuation.

 

[Monty]

My guess is choosing C would take us back to the two other options (exploring the mountain or surrounding area) which we missed when we decided to investigate the animals, plus one new one for either longer range scouting or tech development.

And choosing the mountain, for example, would surely open up new options and would be another step on the road to metallurgy and stonework - even if not leading to them immediately. That's why I agree that C is the best choice, we'll be back to defending ourselves soon so should make the most of this development time.

 

[m4davis]

To m4davis: Seriously, mate, punctuation is your friend. Sorry but I've been to enough forums in my life, I can't be bothered to read a stream of consciousness wall of text without punctuation.

My best guess as to why I tend to not put punctuation is that I have been exposed to so many things without it that I'am sort of desensitized to it I will try to remember to put it up more constantly at least with this forum that I know has a problem with it

 

[Hirato]

Since you guys had to pick C in the previous round... I'll pick A here, so we at least get something out of going this route.

 

[Esquilax]

Since you guys had to pick C in the previous round... I'll pick A here, so we at least get something out of going this route.

We've wasted only a few weeks trying to gain an understanding of the beasts in our surroundings... now you want to spend potentially years domesticating yet another animal? Let's just cut our losses and go another route. Yeah, I voted for C and I do regret it a little, but I'd regret wasting our time with domesticating yet another animal even more. Investing more in this idea is dumb because it's a sunk cost. Yeah, investigating the mountain + cave was probably the way to go, but that doesn't mean that we should suddenly keep going in the wrong direction just because we're (slightly) committed to it. Seriously, anything we do is better than domesticating the wolves at this point.

 

[oscar]

Not really. Dogs (the end result of domesticating wolves) are just an all around useful thing to have. They're not going to win us any wars or revolutionise our lives but they're useful (herding, hunting, security) all the same. A fairly solid, if unspectacular, investment.

 

[Vernydar]

Yes, it would not be bad, but I'm just not confident we CAN domesticate them right now. Besides as said I think we have more urgent needs.

But, we did not waste time with the choice before, though I voted B. At least, now we know bears and wolves are not a danger, and our hunters are confident they can handle them. Which means, we're not likely to lose men or herds should they attack.

Let us not forget, we may know what bears and wolves do, but our tribesmen did not. And also, in a world where wyverns/dragons are around, it's better to check before guessing that something is not dangerous, or we might get burned

 

[oscar]

Well hopefully Curufinwe gets my suggestion on the 'having more than three options in a single update' front.

Have we learnt fishing yet? It said we've been learning the ways of the water-people, so I assume so. But if not that would be another solid investment (more so than dogs). Now we've got our security under control it'd be nice to boom our population a bit.

 

[Vernydar]

And let's not forget, music. I really want drums. Come on, sooner or later we'll have war. We can't go to war without drums XD

 

[Jick Magger]

Have we learnt fishing yet? It said we've been learning the ways of the water-people, so I assume so. But if not that would be another solid investment (more so than dogs). Now we've got our security under control it'd be nice to boom our population a bit.

I just assumed we were still going to learn about it when given the option of it or military expansion, it's just that it's got alot lower priority than the other stuff we're doing and thus take longer to fully master.
And picking C wasn't completely a bung-choice. We're now familiar with the land surrounding the mountain and it's wildlife, and thus use it better to break down an invasion force. Sure, exploring the cave systems probably would've been more useful, but eh, coulda shoulda woulda.

 

[oscar]

Yeah I first suggested music in the free choice update, but it's still uncertain if we have the tools. Should be able to make flutes pretty easily (hollow out bone) to the point where it wouldn't use up an entire update. Drums are doable as well with our pretty advanced knowledge of skins and hiding.

 

[Vernydar]

Yeah I first suggested music in the free choice update, but it's still uncertain if we have the tools. Should be able to make flutes pretty easily (hollow out bone) to the point where it wouldn't use up an entire update. Drums are doable as well with our pretty advanced knowledge of skins and hiding.

I do not think it works exactly like that. I think that our choices are, generally, not the only thing we're doing. Just, the thing we're concentrating on at the moment. Surely in the background we must be working a bit on boats and fishing, but since we chose to concentrate on other things, we're just going to have that come at a slower pace.

So, we're sure to get boats and fishing down the line, but unless we choose it in a update, it's going to be a bit slow. I think this is how it works anyway

It is of course different for the technologies we do not know of.

 

[kazgar]

C

Other options, the wolves/bears aren't going anywhere and there's other things we can learn or do that'll be useful in the short term.

 

[oscar]

In any case, (as is my understanding) the way wolves were domesticated was that the ones that were more 'sociable' and friendly to humans were less likely to be driven away from the camp site and starve. So it's a very long term process that I imagine would take a long time to pay dividends.