On D&D adaptations. Which lv range do you prefer?

[Reinhardt]

interesting

Underdark, Abyss, Netheril, Elemental Planes

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

 

[Drew]

High level characters aren't godlike.

"Fate of the world or even the fundamental order of the multiverse might hang in the balance" doesn't sound godlike to you?

 

[Azalin]

4-14 is probably my favourite,that the sweet spot in pnp version of dnd the way the rules and the game is designed and it is mostly the same in video games using those systems

 

[Mexi]

BG low level is really well-built. Everything has a good challenge, but high-level BG2 is a fucking mess. As someone mentioned, the low levels are super restrictive and annoying, but to be honest, I can overlook them after I played high-level BG2. Again, it's a fucking mess, and I'm wondering if the tabletop is as bad...

 

[Cryomancer]

Everything that is not a endless "i attack" is gay

D&D is a high magical setting, seems like you hate anything above ultra low magical setting, so I would recommend to play other games or games which takes out flashy spells out of the game...

"Fate of the world or even the fundamental order of the multiverse might hang in the balance" doesn't sound godlike to you?

5e Tier bullshit. Simple as that. A awful idea brought by 4e. Trying to scale the "area" of the conflict with the character growth and have evolution spikes on lv 5/11/17. As if a epic lv Lich can't be a threat to a small city where he does experiments. This is one of the worst aspects of 5e. The the avatar of Grumbar on 2e - Book : Faiths & Avatars - Page 66 bellow. Keep in mind that the true form of a deity is above what game rules can measure.

12d8 damage, THAC0 of -9, all of the highest divine and arcane spells casts dozens of times per day, ultra low saves, 50% MR, he can kill a epic level magic user in a single round with a single attack...

 

[Reinhardt]

D&D is a high magical setting

Not THAT high. No random liches in random encounters.
High level adventures is just plain retarded. High level mages don't do this "adventure" thing. They hire low and mid level mages.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Well, try to kill Vecna on high level and see if the "lack of challenge" exists.

Or throw your party into the depth of abyss and have then fight hordes and hordes of demons.

I'd rather a mid-level party that has to be scared of a good chunk of the monster manual still instead of Juggernaut punching everything but gods and devils. Those need a few more punches.

 

[NewGuy]

My favorite level range is above the levels when you can accidently die from a bad case of diarrhea (up to lvl 3).
And below the levels when an enemy mage looks at you and you get an immediate heart attack (lvl 13 and up).

 

[Fishy]

High level adventures is just plain retarded. High level mages don't do this "adventure" thing. They hire low and mid level mages.

Birthright had high level mages right. Utterly devastating magic, spending their life being bribed for it by all parties, expanding their ley line network, and spending the cash on underlings to do the adventuring and guilds to try and murder other mages.

 

[gurugeorge]

I would say "low to mid." The first few levels are usually shitty (although that has a lot to do with the way games are designed, to rush you on to the higher power level - devs ought to make more of the world suitable to explore and fight in at the early levels), but by about lvl 3 or 4 things start to get interesting, and remain interesting till about lvl 12 or so, when it all starts getting a bit silly.

I generally think that the idea of "levels" has been drawn out to ridiculous lengths in videogames. There should be no more than 10 levels of anything, any more and you're stretching for interesting things to do, interesting abilities to have, that haven't already found some thematic use, which is pointless make-work for the sake of it. (MMOs that go up to lvl 60 or 80 are the most glaring offenders with this - you end up with a hotbar full of tons of silly extremely situational abilities; but most games that go up to lvl 20 or 30 are guilty of the same syndrome to some extent.)

The "number of toys" is a sweet spot number, it doesn't have a limitless ceiling. Too few and it's boring, too many and it's too fussy (IOW, if the "tons-o'-abilities" are actually effective, then beyond a certain point you spend too much time pondering your options for each move, if they're not effective then the extra levellage was pointless window-dressing anyway).

 

[Cryomancer]

High level adventures is just plain retarded. High level mages don't do this "adventure" thing. They hire low and mid level mages.

Well, depends a lot. On Swords & Wizardry, a retroclone, when a magic user reaches certain level, he gain the "title" of Wizard which is akin to the title of Baron and sure, if a group of goblins is attacking your barony, you will not waste your time with this weaklings, you will send your apprentices. However, if a dragon is attacking your wizard tower and surrounded area, then you will go protect your lands since your apprentices can't handle that. You will go on adventures only if something really bad happened like a portal to the abyss opened.

Sadly, few DM actually makes mid to high level playing interesting. Stronghold management is a cool aspect of mid to high level adventure. But what do you think about lamentations of flame princess? Zero flashy spells like fireballs and magic is quite dangerous. Even a level one summon monster can have disastrous consequences. Only fighters gain + to hit per level. Much lower magical setting.

Or you can use this >>> http://hyboria.xoth.net/sorcery/low_magic_system.htm

A alternative magic system to make sense for a lower magic universe.

I'd rather a mid-level party that has to be scared of a good chunk of the monster manual still instead of Juggernaut punching everything but gods and devils.

Nice point.

Mindflayers on Dark Sun ; Wake of the Ravager are a terrifying enemy at mid levels. On high levels(like on nwn1:hotu), they are a cakewalk. That is a problem of high level play. Too much iconic creatures become non threatening.

 

[Denim Destroyer]

Mid-lvl, around this time characters begin to fit into their respective classes but aren't overpowered yet. A problem I have with high level characters, at least in concept, is why are they still adventuring? At that point they should be rich and famous enough to lead armies or rule entire kingdoms. I would like to see a D&D inspired game start the player off as a lowely adventurer and transition to powerful king leading armies against the forces of evil. Kingmaker exists but the kingdom management in that game is terrible and you don't actually get to do much king related things besides the occasional decree.

 

[Murk]

Of the options presented I picked mid, but if we're talking AD&D 2.0 through 3.5, then the ideal range IMO is 3 to 15ish, give or a take a few at the end depending on if certain spell levels are fitting given a game's setting/plot.

 

[Tavernking]

as I don't acknowledge editions newer than 2E as being D&D, mid-level is about levels 4-8.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I'm inclined to agree with Xamenos. Each level range presents its own enjoyment. Which edition is being used is also a crucial factor in what level range is most satisfying to play.

 

[Cryomancer]

There should be no more than 10 levels of anything, any more and you're stretching for interesting things to do, interesting abilities to have, that haven't already found some thematic use, which is pointless make-work for the sake of it. (MMOs that go up to lvl 60 or 80 are the most glaring offenders with this - you end up with a hotbar full of tons of silly extremely situational abilities; but most games that go up to lvl 20 or 30 are guilty of the same syndrome to some extent.)

I honestly think that it depends on the game length. For eg, 20 levels on Pathfinder Kingmker fells right since the game is very long. You rarely levels more than 4 lvs per chapter and a chapter. Lv 7~15 on Dark Sun Wake of the Ravager and lv 3~9 on Shattered Lands both fells right since both games aren't that long.

Birthright had high level mages right. Utterly devastating magic, spending their life being bribed for it by all parties, expanding their ley line network, and spending the cash on underlings to do the adventuring and guilds to try and murder other mages.

IDK why but it remembers me of Meredoth(Dark Lord of the realms of dread) story. In nutshell, he got a noble title, but din't wanted to do noble stuff, only do his magical research and after a experiemnt, he become a dark lord.

his story according to mistipedia

On that world, he was a baron of Norwold, a province of the Alphatian Empire. As a baron, Meredoth could never find as much time alone for his magical research as he wanted. After he poisoned the starving colonialists who merely begged for his aid, a storm rolled in and drew him into Ravenloft.[5]

Meredoth is responsible for poisoning the Graben Family and reanimating them as lebendtod, initially merely to have someone to keep the flow of body parts coming.[1] However, since their initial reanimation, the Graben family and their spawn have become some of his primary minions.[6]

Meredoth has also created a number of snow golems and even developed several magic spells that deal specifically with snow. He used the spell Transmute Snow to Stone to manipulate the rock and permafrost that forms the bedrock of his home on Todestein.
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Meredoth

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Part of what I like about RPG's is being imersed into power fantasies. If my taste was for more tactical battles, I would probably prefer mid level, but I an a power hungry mage, I see a powerful spell, I wanna it. Low level D&D is IMO, where you have less options and even a common goblin can be deadly. Some DM's even start at lv 0. At lv 0, you can fight your house cat and die...

 

[Hag]

I remember playing D&D3.5 PnP as a monk. Low levels were shit : no strength, no armor, no money. Starting level 5-6or so, the extra attack and bonus saving rolls started to make a difference and somehow got quite good.

To answer the question, I'd say my favorite level range is the one where you stop fearing basic brigands, kobolds, giant rats and such boring shit. You know, simply being able to roam the countryside without dying from a wild boar charge, a wereweasel slash or a dire tick infected bite.

 

[Reinhardt]

you stop fearing basic brigands, kobolds, giant rats and such boring shit

You never should stop fearing them.

 

[purupuru]

I prefer 4-10 for similar reasons as stated above, though not 4-12 because 6th level spells are a bit too much for me.
However I do think even lower levels have their unique charm. Sure there may be too much rng and not enough tools at your disposal, but it's also the part of adventure where you are not filthy rich and need to be conscious about how you use each consumable at hand. Also overcoming the rng with a bit of cheese and meta-gaming on your side can be fun.

 

[Hag]

you stop fearing basic brigands, kobolds, giant rats and such boring shit

You never should stop fearing them.

Depends. In CRPG, when you get strong enough for a new tier of enemies, you usually deal with lower level encounters fairly easy, only threatening when ganking you while you were already injured.
In PnP, it's the GM's decision, and if he wants the players to fight the kobold invasion then so be it.

 

[Sacibengala]

High level dnd is trash. Never worked, never will. Low level is where the fun is. Mid level is where you think you are strong and the game is not totally broken yet. It is not about the adaptation, it is the system itself. Dnd don’t work for highlevel crap. How many modules the tabletop have that are high level and it works and are fun? I dare you to name at least 3. Any edition. Go for it.

 

[octavius]

High level dnd is trash. Never worked, never will. Low level is where the fun is. Mid level is where you think you are strong and the game is not totally broken yet. It is not about the adaptation, it is the system itself. Dnd don’t work for highlevel crap.

It worked in Pools of Darkness and Dark Queen of Krynn.

 

[Delterius]

high level DnD always works

 

[Cryomancer]

You never should stop fearing them.

-> Veteran warrior in a high fantasy world
-> Fearing a rat

Chose one.

4-12 because 6th level spells are a bit too much for me.

Any specific tier 6 spell which is too much for you? I mean, 5th/6th level is where you start to get interesting spells like Chain lightning and cloudkill.

. How many modules the tabletop have that are high level and it works and are fun? I dare you to name at least 3. Any edition. Go for it.

Tabletop module?

• Throne of bloodstone.- Highest level of a D&D adventure ever. You enter in the depths of Abyss and in a "city of liches" where a lot of Liches who serve the demon lord lives. And every non slave there is epic level.
• Netheril : Empire of Magic - Karsus is lv 42 and most of his apprentices are epic level.
• The Apocalypse Stone - Lv 15 + https://www.dndarchive.com/content/apocalypse-stone
• Vecna reborn - The adventure is mid level if you don't wanna to take out Vecna, only wanna escape and high level if you wanna take him out,
• Queen of the Demonweb Pits - DDO has a adaptation of the demonweb pits. Is a a mid level(10~14) campaign but can be adapted into high level
• A lot of Mystara modules, notably Talons of Night which happens in the Isles of Dawn
• Legacy of Blood, also set in Mystara.

All modules which people liked.

But lets also talk about CRPG's since we are not in "Gazebo". Lets look to the most praised campaings on 3.5e adaptations. Which are Hordes of the Underdark and Mask of the Betrayer. Both are high to epic level campaigns. We are getting 2 low level D&D adaptations, Baldur's Gate 3 and Solasta. BOTH has less hype on Codex than Pathfinder Wrath of The righteous which will allow you to reach lv 20 and will include mythic path allowing you to do things like becoming a Lich and reviving bosses to serve you. A thing which none of the old school high level D&D adaptations allowed.

Anyone here who voted low level believes that you can adapt hordes of the underdark or mask of the betrayer to low level without killing the campaign?

 

[Reinhardt]

You enter in the depths of Abyss and in a "city of liches" where a lot of Liches who serve the demon lord lives. And every non slave there is epic level.

SOUNDS FUN!
Actually, not.