On D&D adaptations. Which lv range do you prefer?

[Max Damage]

I prefer mid-level (4-12), like ToEE past Moathouse, although ToEE doesn't go past lvl 10 in vanilla.

 

[Cryomancer]

I prefer mid-level (4-12), like ToEE past Moathouse, although ToEE doesn't go past lvl 10 in vanilla.

ToEE is amazing, but IMO Co8 makes it extremely better by removing the lv cap. Put a party against a Balor. In the elemental plane of fire. And limits the party level to 10. That is crazy. Without metagaming, using the "artifact" and summoning others node guardians, he was pretty hard. I defeated him on the original game using a lot of save scumming

 

[NJClaw]

Put a party against a Balor. In the elemental plane of fire. And limits the party level to 10. That is crazy.

That's not crazy. The word you're looking for is "incline".

I've always been quite iffy about level caps in D&D videogames, and the Balor in ToEE is what made me start to appreciate them.

 

[Darth Canoli]

ToEE is amazing, but IMO Co8 makes it extremely better by removing the lv cap. Put a party against a Balor. In the elemental plane of fire. And limits the party level to 10. That is crazy. Without metagaming, using the "artifact" and summoning others node guardians, he was pretty hard. I defeated him on the original game using a lot of save scumming

Temple+ lets you customize the level cap.
And by the way, Slaughtergarde mod v1.1 is up and running (you'll need Temple+ 1.084 to run it and Co8 basic at least, link being with additional content)

Spoiler

Install ToEE, then patch 1 and 2 if necessary (1 didn't even start with gog install)
Then Co8, then run the TFX thing.
Activate Co8
Put the 2 mod files into the mod folder of ToEE main install
Install Temple +
Use the new feature to select the mod
Use T+ shortcut to run the mod.

Barely played it (party is still level 1 after 2 trips to the first dungeon) but it looks decent, i like this version of Verbonosc better than Co8 one even if the flat maps are weird, i guess that's the reason the mod was released so fast.

 

[Max Damage]

I think Balor is an adequate boss for endgame, considering that by that point you have 5-8 level 9-10 characters. He isn't even immune to sneak attacks.

 

[Jigby]

balor is too predictable, always the same move set, protection from evil counters charm, counterspell counters fear, improved invis gives you +9 to attack IIRC, enlarged improved trip dwarves FTW

btw, it's been some time since the last time I've played toee+, what's the go-to counter against the poisonous attack of the water node guardian (hezrou)? Slow poison or other protections from poison type spells were buggy, but that was back in 2017.

 

[Belboz]

In computer role playing game I tend to prefer the low to mid range, from 1 to 10.

Let's be honest, after that – and with an increasing arsenal of spells and whatnot – it's all about who cheat best, you or the AI.

I remember the halflings in the Planar Sphere in SoA, if you send a scout (an invisible mage, or a high stealth thief) you can see they are already buffed with stoneskin, protection from arrows and other defences. So, I use no preparation, nor tactic, I just wait for the spells to exhaust, and then I attack. Good, solid plan.

Take, also, the battle against Balthazar in ToB, what a mess! I've still a headache today. And, about cheats, the developers have nerfed your 'time stop' against him.

I just prefer when, south of Friendly Arm Inn, you encounter an Ogre, wielding a spiked club higher than Khalid. If you are not clever, he can smash your frail party in a couple of rounds, if you cast – for example – entangle, and he fails the saving throw, the upper hands is yours. That's fun, screens full of smokes, lightning and fireballs are not.

 

[Cryomancer]

considering that by that point you have 5-8 level 9-10 characters. He isn't even immune to sneak attacks.

You are assuming that I would play with a very large party. I prefer to play with smaller parties.

I've always been quite iffy about level caps in D&D videogames, and the Balor in ToEE is what made me start to appreciate them.

Only if you are playing with full party. he was my first "node boss" that I fought and was with 3 party members, all at lv 10 since a long time.

On AD&D, I prefer XP cap over hard level cap. For eg, Dark Sun : Shattered Sands, if you don't multiclass, you will gonna reach lv cap in less than half of the game. It is just one tier 5 preserver school spell per day if you are a pure preserver. And scrolls are pretty hard to obtain(BTW, I an not complaining about it. A setting where magicians are hated and paper is a luxury, it makes sense).

Even on Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager, I found myself forced to multiclass due the lv cap and the game lv cap is 15, IMO BG1/2 did it better. They cap the XP cap, not a level. So, if you wanna play as a Fighter/Mage, you can but on Shadows of Amn, you will be locked at lv 13 which means no tier 7 spells while a magic user would be able to cast tier 8 magic reaching lv cap. And Fighter/Mage/Cleric even on Throne of Bhaal, can't cast tier 9 spells. On both dark sun games, you lose nothing multiclassing. I had a fighter/cleric, a fighter/psion, a fighter/preserver and a half giant gladiator when I completed shattered lands.

 

[Hafnar the Jester]

Of course you disagree. Every fishing village in god forsaken tundra must have nice selection of level 9 scrolls for sale. That's what fishing villages exist for.

Yeah, because an RPG ought ot be a perfect tundra fishing shithole simulation. Fuck off.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yeah, because an RPG ought ot be a perfect tundra fishing shithole simulation. Fuck off.

As I've said, you can only get worthless scrolls in the starting village. Most people who complain about magery in video games don't know anything about it.

------------------------

BTW, On video games I prefer high level adventuring like MoTB, HotU and so on. But on TT games, I prefer mid level. Why?

• Far more modules to chose from
• You can do a lot of cool stuff like polymorth NPC's but can't wish your way out of every problem. A wish is a ultra rare and valuable scroll that you will use only when is absolute needed, not a one way ticket to solve every situation
• Far easier to DM
• You can still explore outsider adventures on 2e and 3.5e. Still can visit the city of embers around lv 13. You just need to be extremely careful.

 

[Rean]

Of course you disagree. Every fishing village in god forsaken tundra must have nice selection of level 9 scrolls for sale. That's what fishing villages exist for.

Yeah, because an RPG ought ot be a perfect tundra fishing shithole simulation. Fuck off.

This just in: autistic retard finds no pleasure in being immersed in a realistic world and just wants to "loot cool scrolls from the fishing village brah". You took a wrong turn after the R, you were supposed to sign up to "Reddit".

 

[Cryomancer]

Of course you disagree. Every fishing village in god forsaken tundra must have nice selection of level 9 scrolls for sale. That's what fishing villages exist for.

Yeah, because an RPG ought ot be a perfect tundra fishing shithole simulation. Fuck off.

This just in: autistic retard finds no pleasure in being immersed in a realistic world and just wants to "loot cool scrolls from the fishing village brah". You took a wrong turn after the R, you were supposed to sign up to "Reddit".

Here is where you find the scrolls on each game edition https://icewinddale.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane_spell_scroll_availability Where there is the "tier 9 spells in fishing villages" on EE in that page??? All of then are in places like Malavon's Dome but everyone knows that a master caster with a lot of golem servants will not make a backup of good tier 9 spells. He will only scribe scrolls of the worst of the worst high level spells /sarcasm

And even on EE, the unique way to solo IWD:EE final boss is by fighting him on melee.


But of course, arcane haters hates things and never read anything about it. They complain, complain but rarely even read the most basic things.

 

[Rean]

But of course, arcane haters hates things and never read anything about it. They complain, complain but rarely even read the most basic things.

First of all, you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a successful GM and RPG writer and I'm very good at what I do. I've custom written and ported more spells than you could count. Calling me an 'arcane hater' is beyond dumb, I love magic more than you do, and everyone who's disagreeing with you in this thread is the same way. We all want to be immersed in worlds where magic, in whatever forms it takes, is properly understood and bound by rules and laws. Much like everything else.
I've gone through the whole thread by now and it's obvious that you have no desire whatsoever to play a 'role-playing game'. You want to be a superhero in a comic book where everything revolves around you and your little power fantasy.

 

[Cryomancer]

Calling me an 'arcane hater' is beyond dumb, I love magic more than you do, and everyone who's disagreeing with you in this thread is the same way. We all want to be immersed in worlds where magic, in whatever forms it takes, is properly understood and bound by rules and laws. Much like everything else.

You can be a successful writer or DM. This doesn't change the fact that you have no clue about what scrolls are available where in IWD and IWD:EE if you think that you can get high level spells on the starting fishing village. I don't remember even a tier 2 spell in that village. Pomab's Emporium sells only 3 spells. Sleep, Chromatic orb and reflected image.

My problem with base IWD(non EE) is NOT that the good high level scrolls are hard to find. Is that they are NONEXISTENT. Imagine if you could find stop time or even wish spell in the Lair of a powerful enemy wizard, but the spell scroll is behind a safe enchanted to destroy the scrolls in case of forceful breach, so you need to do a lot of side quests and solve some puzzles to open it and then, only one caster in your party can learn it. That would be cool. But having only the worst tier 9 summoning spell which is IMO worst than a Efreet summoned by a tier 7 spell and the worst tier 9 insta death spell which is weaker than finger of death(tier 7) is just silly.

'role-playing game'. You want to be a superhero in a comic book where everything revolves around you and your little power fantasy.

My favorite Turn Based D&D adaptation is Dark Sun : Wake of The ravager. You can find a scroll of meteor swarm, but is a one time in the entire game nuke to save for a encounter which you are having a hard trouble. Is a very limited but very powerful magic that requires a easy to miss sidequest to be obtained. That is much better than having access to tier 9 magic that is weaker than tier 7 magic. And yes, IMO Summon Efreet > Tier 9 "Monster Summoning VII". Finger of Death(7) > Power Word : Kill(9).

Wake of The ravager - Where to get the scroll

And if you look to my spellbook, those are the mid level spells which I can cast

lv 6/7 spells that I can cast on my spellbook

As you can see, I have a ultra limited spell selection for spell levels above 5 and only one preserver in my party to memorize this spells. My party is a Glatiator, a fighter, a figher/cleric and a preserver.

-----------------

TL;DR -> Ultra limited to once during the entire campaign tier 9 magic >>> tier 9 magic which is weaker than tier 7 and the fishing village on IWD:EE only sells 3 tier 1 spells. Not a single mid level spell.

 

[Neki]

I like low-mid levels simply for the fact that you can mess around with classes more, at high levels some classes are outclassed or outright made unviable.

I Also think late game enemies tend to be boss battle after boss battle, which detracts a bit for me.
I rather have a hard fought goblin battle than slay a lich and its pet dragon and his demigod brother, for some reason the former feels much more rewarding.

 

[Tavernking]

No ceAHWA