Obsidian and inXile acquired by Microsoft

[The Great ThunThun*]

Sawyer did not hype up POE as any such thing. And do you really think the game bombed because he didn't use RPGcodex specifically as a guide? Since we're bringing up psychology and all, I have to ask... are you sure all this talk of arrogant people losing touch with reality isn't projection?

I will try to give this criticism a challenge from my point of view.

Firstly, let me clarify that I personally do not think that Sawyer is arrogant. I think he is not particularly good at this mechanics design business; but then who is, right? That is the real problem. Criticizing D&D is easy. Heck I do it all the time, but I do acknowledge every so often whenever I have a conversation with others on the topic, that D&D is *fun*. It is not balanced or fair but when the content around it is organized correctly (Read, DM) then it can work quite well. This is why it works despite its many falls; it is entertaining. It serves as a scaffold to tell good stories and allows a significant amount of roleplay. This is the crucial insights in designing any RPG: add enough content to acknowledge roleplay, lest it becomes "larp". A game that does this well will surely end up being more memorable "cough* PST/VMTB/Deus EC *cough* than any well-balanced game. So when a designer comes without any previous history of good design makes comments like "D&D is wrong and I can do better", then he is sure to be seen as arrogant by some. A brieff comment on that later.

Only on "hardcore" places do you really find people who bitch and moan continuously about mechanics. RPG codex being one of them. Most players of the genre are there to enjoy the plot and they see the mechanics as a tool for advancement in the game, BGs being the prime examples of that sort. In BGs the mechanics complemented that approach because of the general prettiness of the spellcasting and the (few instances of) encounter design that required you to *prepare* in advance.

Sawyer's failure is thus very fundamental. He misunderstood *as I see it* the reason why BGs are popular and tried to reproduce their success by focusing on the portion not responsible for their allure. What surprises me and I am sure, many others here, is that how this mistake was allowed to propagate for a very long time at Obsidian. Someone would/should have pointed this out a long time ago to the team working on PoE. It seems the team suffered a tunnel vision on the design goals aspect.

PoE *did* do one thing right, which was the pretty scenes, but that is all. The rest, which is the feel of a danger, adventure and ego-stroking within the plot was mostly stripped from the game and the *mechanics* was focused on. Unsurprisingly, the mechanics did not interact well with the content implemented rather becoming a hurdle for the player to overcome to get to the actual game. This is where I think PoE lost most of the core audience that came for the story and the adventure.

Another thing which must be mentioned is that Sawyer made a *lot* of amateur mistakes in the beginning of the game, coming up with quite a few absolutely mind-boggling mechanical ideas in the retrospect. Most of them are now gone in PoE2. This itself should ring a lot of alarm bells to many. He is hardly a "legendary" designer. He is still a neonate and would defintiely benefit by making incremental adjustments to D&D instead of coming up with his own stuff.

 

[Luckmann]

And do you really think the game bombed because he didn't use RPGcodex specifically as a guide?

Yes.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

What a load of bullshit. I'm passionate about RPGs, but I don't replay them all the time, neither I play all the RPGs I find. But I'm constantly on the look for RPGs I enjoy. And anyone who knows me know that I'm not proficient in them, I'm decent, but nothing more. Instead of passionate, you probably mean obsessed.

You are not passionate. You are a lazy and indulgent enthusiast, at best. Now, according to you, people that actually care enough to analyse cRPGs are not passionate. They must be something different, sick and not healthy, like obsessed and neurotic. That’s a nice inversion of values. Suddenly, indulgent players like you, who never analyse anything and take every cRPG at face value, are passionate. What a load of bull. If you were truly passionate you would never, ever forgive a shallow cRPG.

 

[Big Wrangle]

It's almost like there are different levels of passionate.

 

[pomenitul]

 

[Brancaleone]

Mmmh, so what you are trying to say is that frequenting the Codex is like dating a prime Andie Macdowell...

 

[pomenitul]

…who constantly talks to you about this other guy, and how balanced his bodily bits are, yet she is SO over him by now…

 

[Brancaleone]

…who constantly talks to you about this other guy, and how balanced his bodily bits are, yet she is SO over him by now…

To be honest, that doesn't match my own experience with Andie Macdowell in the slightest.

 

[Brancaleone]

Firstly, let me clarify that I personally do not think that Sawyer is arrogant. I think he is not particularly good at this mechanics design business; but then who is, right? That is the real problem. Criticizing D&D is easy. Heck I do it all the time, but I do acknowledge every so often whenever I have a conversation with others on the topic, that D&D is *fun*. It is not balanced or fair but when the content around it is organized correctly (Read, DM) then it can work quite well. This is why it works despite its many falls; it is entertaining. It serves as a scaffold to tell good stories and allows a significant amount of roleplay. This is the crucial insights in designing any RPG: add enough content to acknowledge roleplay, lest it becomes "larp". A game that does this well will surely end up being more memorable "cough* PST/VMTB/Deus EC *cough* than any well-balanced game.

To summarize: system-focused approach VS content-focused approach. Sawyer is extremely system-focused, and I'd say that is because, like most system-obsessed people, he's really bad at understanding what makes good content. As can be seen from his habit of uncerimoniously lifting stuff that he likes (be it from history, literature, or whatever), and tacking onto the game he's working on without understanding why that stuff worked in its proper context, and why it may or may not work in the context he's cramming it into. Some times this approach is successful because the content he's tacking on works regardless of the different context.

P.S. System-obsessed doesn't entail 'good with systems' either: his favourite 'halving and doubling' technique is the equivalent of 'throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks' without understanding why it sticks, which is, once again, quite telling.

He should probably stick to a managerial role, organizing, scheduling, bean-counting, since he seems pretty good at all of that. But I guess that would be a tough sell, since he appears to see himself as an 'intellectual' of sorts within the videogame industry.

 

[Big Wrangle]

But I guess that would be a tough sell, since he appears to see himself as an 'intellectual' of sorts within the field of videogames.

Don't forget this bizarre perception in certain circles that a producer is basically a caveman that throws money at the staff and nothing else.

 

[Brancaleone]

But I guess that would be a tough sell, since he appears to see himself as an 'intellectual' of sorts within the field of videogames.

Don't forget this bizarre perception in certain circles that a producer is basically a caveman that throws money at the staff and nothing else.

That's true: as if a producer were a sort of idealized Maecenas (and I say idealized because that's not even like patrons are in real life, since no patron throws money at someone for nothing).

 

[Makabb]

All the developers need to do to make a great RPG is look at the top 10 list of Codex best RPGs ever, but they fail to do even that !

 

[Mexi]

All the developers need to do to make a great RPG is look at the top 10 list of Codex best RPGs ever, but they fail to do even that !

Or they can just cuck the Cuckdex like InExile did. No need to make a good game when the Cuckdex will shill out money anyways.

 

[111111111]

God damn how the fuck did Inexile managed to get bought out I will never know. Never liked a single one of their games

 

[J_C]

God damn how the fuck did Inexile managed to get bought out I will never know. Never liked a single one of their games

Are you Microsoft? No? Then your taste has nothing to do with MS's decision making.

 

[hexer]

There is a reason supposed "masterpieces" like Planescape Torment never got many sales, even in the niche that actually plays CRPGs... The game was a slog. Many people would call it a visual novel rather than a crpg. They are exaggerating of course, but there is some validity to that claim. Yes PS:T had great story and C&C, but people want to play games... If they wanted to read a book, they would buy the PS:T novel…

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you? What makes the game special is not C&C (the game is mostly linear), but the fact that the exploration of the game world is tied to a journey of self-discovery. Of course, the game also has a D&D system, tons of combat, etc. It is not great, but it adds pacing. It also has an unusual itemization and weapons, which adds to the setting and the charm of the game. The game has a lot of virtues. It’s unique.

PST wasn't a slog.. if you look at it by the standards of 1999. when it was released.
People back then had longer attention spans and could easily retain focus in a text-heavy CRPG.
The only players complaining about the text were those bad at English language,
I don't recall anyone crying about how it was visual novel or similar.

Nowadays, many can barely read a news title, let alone the article itself.
Here's the main culprit
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science...attention-span-than-goldfish-thanks-to-smart/

 

[DeepOcean]

There is a reason supposed "masterpieces" like Planescape Torment never got many sales, even in the niche that actually plays CRPGs... The game was a slog. Many people would call it a visual novel rather than a crpg. They are exaggerating of course, but there is some validity to that claim. Yes PS:T had great story and C&C, but people want to play games... If they wanted to read a book, they would buy the PS:T novel…

I completely disagree that the game was a slog and there is a big contradiction on your claim, since when C&C isn't gameplay? This claim that the game was a visual novel generally come from people that actually never got beyond the Mortuary. Would Planescape be a better game with well done TB combat? Sure, no doubt about that but to claim it was a visual novel is to simplify things to absurd levels.

This idea that the game was a visual novel was one of the reasons why Numanuma was such a shit game.

 

[Makabb]

There is a reason supposed "masterpieces" like Planescape Torment never got many sales, even in the niche that actually plays CRPGs... The game was a slog. Many people would call it a visual novel rather than a crpg. They are exaggerating of course, but there is some validity to that claim. Yes PS:T had great story and C&C, but people want to play games... If they wanted to read a book, they would buy the PS:T novel…

I completely disagree that the game was a slog and there is a big contradiction on your claim, since when C&C isn't gameplay? This claim that the game was a visual novel generally come from people that actually never got beyond the Mortuary. Would Planescape be a better game with well done TB combat? Sure, no doubt about that but to claim it was a visual novel is to simplify things to absurd levels.

This idea that the game was a visual novel was one of the reasons why Numanuma was such a shit game.

PST IS a visual novel, just like xcom and jagged alliance is the opposite, its a tactical game without a story.

Games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate are in the middle ground, they are both a visual novel and a tactical game.

 

[Lhynn]

PTSD has gameplay. Stop being retarded.

 

[Latelistener]

Fallout
tactical game

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Fallout
tactical game

he didn't imply that you dumbass

 

[Luckmann]

Planescape: Torment was a visual novel without gameplay.
Jagged Alliance didn't have a story and was a purely tactical experience.
Baldur's Gate and Fallout were tactical visual novels.

Were you born this stupid or did you have to train? What's your opinion on stupid enhancement drugs like marijuana and methamphetamine? Are they really cheating if you're retarded from the beginning?

 

[The Bishop]

All the developers need to do to make a great RPG is look at the top 10 list of Codex best RPGs ever, but they fail to do even that !

Stared at my screen displaying Codex top 10 for several hours. Did not make a great RPG. Why do u lie?

 

[Sailor Woedica]

hey y'all (as Xoti would say), thought this was pretty interesting: https://www.resetera.com/threads/mi...-sold-off-by-now.75600/page-168#post-14983381

(btw I finally found out how to link to individual posts yay!)

according to everyones favourite Microsoft insider Klobrile nearly all current Microsoft studios are now making their games with unreal engine 4, including Obsidian and the lesser known Inxile! Is it just a coincidence that all the studios they've bought had games being made with UE4 or was this in the plans for years?

Quote:

I think InXile, Playground Games #2 and Obsidian are all using UE4 for their current projects - just like most of the other MS studios. So yea, I kinda expect there will be a very healthy exchange. MS creates some of the best UE4 results in the industry (especially The Coalition and Rare).

This is going to be so cool because now all the studio experts can help each other out and improve each others games! And this secret upcoming rpg game called Fable by Playground games will get to use Obsidians cool dialogue tech tree!

 

[Latelistener]

Because they don't have their own engine and UE4 is the best thing right now. They've been working with it for 3+ years already.