Most Hated Person in the CRPG Industry

[bhlaab]

lol oblivion is "hard to master"?

Select fireball, press "cast spell", keep doing it for as long as it takes
congrats you've just mastered destruction

 

[DriacKin]

The salient here (or one of them) is that Bethesda is not afraid to try something new and unproven.

This just made my head hurt.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Saying that its all about the money is a bit too easy (ye, i am looking at you Aries).

For example its quite easy to produce peace of shit movies to make monies, but there are people who dont fail their integrity check and see movies as art. I cant see why its not the same with games. I am 100% sure there is an audience to enjoy great games, as there is audience to enjoy original, deep, complex movies.

 

[DriacKin]

For example its quite easy to produce peace of shit movies to make monies, but there are people who dont fail their integrity check and see movies as art. I cant see why its not the same with games. I am 100% sure there is an audience to enjoy great games, as there is audience to enjoy original, deep, complex movies.

The difference is that the 'origninal, deep, complex' films you're talking about don't cost that much money to make. Films like Terminator: Salvation and Transformers cost hundreds of millions to make, while most of the 'deep and complex' films only take a small fraction of that to create.

This is not true about the game industry. The deeper, more complex games often take longer to develop and cost just as much to make (if not more) than the shitty dumbed down games. As a result, publishers are less likely to fund these more ambitious, riskier projects.

 

[MetalCraze]

lol oblivion is "hard to master"?

Select fireball, press "cast spell", keep doing it for as long as it takes
congrats you've just mastered destruction

That only proves that quest compass, melee weapons that always hit, level scaling and radar showing enemies are still not enough.

 

[entertainer]

Also:

 

[jagged-jimmy]

...

The difference is that the 'origninal, deep, complex' films you're talking about don't cost that much money to make. Films like Terminator: Salvation and Transformers cost hundreds of millions to make, while most of the 'deep and complex' films only take a small fraction of that to create.

This is not true about the game industry. The deeper, more complex games often take longer to develop and cost just as much to make (if not more) than the shitty dumbed down games. As a result, publishers are less likely to fund these more ambitious, riskier projects.

Well i dont know any reference projects, but i would think, that its possible to develop a "fresh" game with relatively small team/budget. You see, you can cut on some stuff which is irrelevent for the audience anyway. For instance if we are talking about iso, turn-based RPG - it pretty much would be a B game to develop and finance. And still most of us wont care if it delivers gameplaywise.
Just check Vogel who does his games alone, now think about 5-6 people. The costs would hardly go in millions, but yea you got to have an original idea. But then again, publishers and filmmakers filter those anyway.
I generally dont see how complex/deep game is directly proportional to budget. Its a profit question, i guess. As publishers dont share projects (as filmstudios often do), so they got to finance only a few games and want to miximize profit, delivering for the mass market.

 

[Black]

The salient here (or one of them) is that Bethesda is not afraid to try something new and unproven

How dumb exactly are you?
They've been doing the exact same thing since TES I.
WELL I GUESS USING FO LICENSE TO TURN IT INTO ANOTHER TES CLONE IS SOMETHING NEW AND UNPROVEN

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Herve. Oh how I hate Herve...Destroyer of Interplay par excellence.

And Bryan Fargo. New Bards Tale game? What a joke. I cannot believe the Wasteland IP is in this person's hands.

Lord British. Sold his company to EA and then raped his own franchise into an action game. Well done my dear space faring faggot.

I cannot decide which one I hate the most at the moment. Herve possibly, only because Fargo only has potential to create a travesty of Wasteland, and Lord British was ill in the head.

 

[Jaesun]

Lord British. Sold his company to EA and then raped his own franchise into an action game. Well done my dear space faring faggot.

Origin was basically bankrupt. It was either Origin goes bankrupt, or sell it to EA. Because of this, we would never have seen Ultima VII and VII-Part 2. But it would have saved us the tragedy of 9. A good read here.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Yes, they almost went bankrupt. If you look at the history however, it was mainly Garriots fault.

He started getting into games that were incredibly expensive to make like the Wing Commander series. While they were popular, they also would have cost a mint to create. I am sure the actors would have blown the budget out quite a bit, and I still remember how idiotic Origin games could be during the early 90's; They always virtually needed computers that didn't exist yet. This continued right up until Ultima 9, where even the best computers on the market struggled to play the game.

I know most people here pull themselves over Ultima 7, however I regard it as the start of the Ultima decline. What was Garriot thinking with that combat model? Improvements were made in a number of other areas, but I view U6 along with the Ultima Worlds games, using improved U6 engines as the height of Origins prowess. Apart from that, they started heading more and more into the action game genre. U7 had the first elements of Super Avatar Brothers and Virtue Raider.

Point: Lord British was the one who destroyed his own company, and his actions after joining with EA only show what an idiot the man had become. I am not saying they would not have eaten up Origin eventually, but straight away Garriot started expanding his projects madly like a kid let loose in a lolly shop. And what came out of this period apart from U7? Nothing but rubbish in the RPG genre. Garriot had lost his way and never recovered.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Ooo, I remember trying to get Strike Commander to run on my 486/50. But shit it was pretty.

 

[MetalCraze]

You do know that EA acquired Origin in '92 - way before all those "expensive" and "demanding" games right?

 

[Zeus]

Origin was basically bankrupt. It was either Origin goes bankrupt, or sell it to EA. Because of this, we would never have seen Ultima VII and VII-Part 2.

You do know that EA acquired Origin in '92 - way before all those "expensive" and "demanding" games right?

Get out of here with your "facts"! They make it harder to hate Lord British!

HNNGH!! MUST HATE HARDER TO COMPENSATE!!!

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

You do know that EA acquired Origin in '92 - way before all those "expensive" and "demanding" games right?

Wrong. Many were released after the takeover, but masses of cash and effort had been put into them before the takeover. These include Ultima 7 1&2, released in 92 and 93 respectively.

Wing Commander 1 and 2 were released before the takeover.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Origin was basically bankrupt. It was either Origin goes bankrupt, or sell it to EA. Because of this, we would never have seen Ultima VII and VII-Part 2.

You do know that EA acquired Origin in '92 - way before all those "expensive" and "demanding" games right?

Get out of here with your "facts"! They make it harder to hate Lord British!

HNNGH!! MUST HATE HARDER TO COMPENSATE!!!

So much for their "facts"

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Ooo, I remember trying to get Strike Commander to run on my 486/50. But shit it was pretty.

By creating a boot disk, and stripping my PC down to bare bones, I managed to play U7 with my 387 16mhz successfully. Friends of mine had problems even getting decent frame rates with their 486's.

 

[Zeus]

Get out of here with your "facts"! They make it harder to hate Lord British!

HNNGH!! MUST HATE HARDER TO COMPENSATE!!!

So much for their "facts"

No, see, I already fakey-quoted the word facts. So in order to fakey quote my fakey quote, you need the dreaded double quad quote, like so:

""facts""

 

[Phelot]

Yes, they almost went bankrupt. If you look at the history however, it was mainly Garriots fault.

He started getting into games that were incredibly expensive to make like the Wing Commander series. While they were popular, they also would have cost a mint to create. I am sure the actors would have blown the budget out quite a bit, and I still remember how idiotic Origin games could be during the early 90's; They always virtually needed computers that didn't exist yet. This continued right up until Ultima 9, where even the best computers on the market struggled to play the game.

I know most people here pull themselves over Ultima 7, however I regard it as the start of the Ultima decline. What was Garriot thinking with that combat model? Improvements were made in a number of other areas, but I view U6 along with the Ultima Worlds games, using improved U6 engines as the height of Origins prowess. Apart from that, they started heading more and more into the action game genre. U7 had the first elements of Super Avatar Brothers and Virtue Raider.

Point: Lord British was the one who destroyed his own company, and his actions after joining with EA only show what an idiot the man had become. I am not saying they would not have eaten up Origin eventually, but straight away Garriot started expanding his projects madly like a kid let loose in a lolly shop. And what came out of this period apart from U7? Nothing but rubbish in the RPG genre. Garriot had lost his way and never recovered.

I believe Origin went bankrupt because they had this crazy thing were they actually finished the games they were working on rather then pushing them out the door half done as EA does. Plus, didn't EA sue them? I know their founder used to do that kind of shit, were they've launch frivolous lawsuits against rival companies and try and bankrupt them. Ultima 7 is riddled with anti-EA stuff.

Besides, Garriot strikes me as a pretty genuine guy. He wanted to try new things and the time, real time combat was a pretty new concept.

 

[aries202]

I don't know why you guys : have a problem with Todd Howard and Oblivion, I don't. As for the console gamers, I don't view them as fucking retards; i view them as gamers that want to play a good game with a decent story, and character creation etc.

If you take into account that character creation and the development of your character as well as the level up system in both Morrowind and Oblivion are very complex, at least to me, then yes, Oblivion (and Morrowind) is easy to learn, but hard to master. Combat is not that hard, however.

In Arena and Daggerfall (and believe me, I've played parts of the games) you do swing your mouse to hit, thus making the player skill more valuable than the character skill, I find.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

10/10, would rage again.

 

[GarfunkeL]

If you take into account that character creation and the development of your character as well as the level up system in both Morrowind and Oblivion are very complex, at least to me, then yes, Oblivion (and Morrowind) is easy to learn, but hard to master.

What? How can you find it "very complex"? Sheesh, you got sills, they increase as you use them. Use primary skills, go up levels. Only thing simpler would be remove the resting required on level-up or maybe forcing every player to have the same primary skills. Jesus christ aries, you can't be serious.

 

[Zeus]

In Arena and Daggerfall (and believe me, I've played parts of the games) you do swing your mouse to hit, thus making the player skill more valuable than the character skill, I find.

TES games have always been Action RPGs, which turns a lot of people off.

Pure action fans are always going to hate TES games, because in Doom, you don't have to be "good" at rocket launchers, slowly leveling them up for 20 hours. You just fire them, and if they hit, they do a tremendous amount of damage. Pure RPG fans are always going to hate TES games because you have to dodge, strike and tactically position yourself in real time, instead of selecting the enemy and clicking a spell button that calculates hit/miss ratios and damage based on character skill and whatnot.

As for which is a greater factor, player or character skill, it's hard to say. People with awful reflexes are going to get disoriented when a Minotaur is running circles around them, and no matter how good you are at action games, if your character build is non-combat -- i.e., you gained levels through alchemy rather than sword swinging -- or if you're using weapons your character "isn't good at", you'll be in trouble when you hit level 15 or so.

That's the stupid thing about Oblivion: Enemies scale to your character's level, not his combat effectiveness.

 

[Texas Red]

I don't know why you guys : have a problem with Todd Howard and Oblivion, I don't. As for the console gamers, I don't view them as fucking retards; i view them as gamers that want to play a good game with a decent story, and character creation etc.

If you take into account that character creation and the development of your character as well as the level up system in both Morrowind and Oblivion are very complex, at least to me, then yes, Oblivion (and Morrowind) is easy to learn, but hard to master. Combat is not that hard, however.

In Arena and Daggerfall (and believe me, I've played parts of the games) you do swing your mouse to hit, thus making the player skill more valuable than the character skill, I find.

The problem with Oblivion is that it's an utter piece of garbage. It has literally no redeeming values. And yet it's praised as the 2nd Cuming. You can do all sorts of shit in the gameworld but it's absolutely meaningless. Oblivion is equivalent to an interactive notebook.

 

[Dele]

level up system in both Morrowind and Oblivion are very complex, at least to me.

I'm afraid you'll have to move back to tes forums to the others who possess the intellectual level to find oblivion complex.

Or then you're trolling, either way i vote for todd.