Might and Magic Might & Magic X Pre-Release Thread

[Zeriel]

Oh wow, so we can't even use the version of Unity they told us to get, now.

Thank you, based Ubisoft.

 

[sser]

I hope these press releases are just bad PR moves and not a reflection of where actual development energy is going.

 

[Sceptic]

Your sig links to a post with a link to a youtube video. Is there a link to the soundfont somewhere in the video? Because I'm not gonna watch the video just to get a fucking link.

Anyway, is the soundfont General MIDI compatible, or General Sound compatible? If it's only GM, it will make the music sound nicer but won't fix the sound effect problems.

 

[Zeriel]

Oh, hey. I found what I was talking about.

Why remake MM3? It's near perfection as it is. I even looks still good.

4 words: NWC's midi code sucks.

If you try to use the Roland sound path, unless you're using the exact synthesizer unit they were developing on, all the sound effects are sourced from the wrong bank.
One of the more notable changes is that walking through a door plays a ringing phone.

Have no clue if this is true, but.

 

[Sceptic]

It's untrue. Their code does suck, but that's because it doesn't force a GS reset on the Sound Canvas, which means if another application had put it in GM mode the sounds will STILL sound bugged. Not a big issue unless you're completely clueless though, as doing a manual reset requires pressing exactly two buttons.

But as for Hirato's actual complaint, it's not that you're playing it on a synthesizer that isn't the exact same one, it's that you're playing it on a synthesizer that doesn't have the sound banks the game calls for. It's like trying to run a DOS executable on a Mac and complaining that it doesn't work. If you play it on any GS module, the sound plays fine.

Fake edit: Oh wait he's talking about MM3. So basically.... he wants to run an MT-32 game on a General MIDI standard, and then complain that it's NWC's code that sucks? Roofles.

 

[groke]

I just remember the sounds being really loud and poppy/buggy. I also have a vague memory of looking it up, and people saying that there's some glitch where it assigns the wrong sounds to things (i.e opening doors has a really loud noise that isn't supposed to be that particular one). Would have to try it out again to refresh my memory, I guess.

I did go through the bare minimum of making sure the install/setup was done in Dosbox and matched Dosbox settings, so doubt it was that.

If you don't set XEEN to update the SoundBlaster volume during setup, the sound effects tend to be played at traumatizingly extreme volumes.

Spoiler

WHERE TO????
*loses hearing*

edit: Sceptic's right, of course, about the Microsoft Wavetable being an extremely poor translation of the Sound Canvas. I couldn't find any recordings comparing specifically Microsoft GS to an SC-55, but this page on VOGONS has a comparison of an actual Roland SC compared to Roland's own Virtual Sound Canvas, and the results are rather less than desirable. If you want SC sounds you gotta buy an SC.

 

[Hirato]

I did a lot of googling on the matter. I even stumbled on dosbox hacks to scan the midi stream for certain patterns and to insert some reset/select (or whatever) opcodes to compensate.
I don't remember the exact details, I think the poster said something about some newer units staying on the current sound bank if they receive a reset or something like that.
I don't remember the the exact hardware either, but I think they were SC models.


But when it comes down to it, you're fine if you use munt with MT-32/LAPC-I roms.

 

[Luzur]

i dunno guys, i never had any sound problem with MM3, my doors sounded like doors everytime i played it, on different machines even.

 

[m_s0]

Heh, Nicolas Corral of Ubisoft touting the virtues of Uplay:

https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/uplay-and-m-m-x

Just look at the wonderful things you'll be able to unlock by racking up their special proprietary points!

Yup, as expected. Someone tell this guy about secrets and in-game unlockables that don't need any external shit infesting your computer. It'll blow his mind.

Wallpapers are fine for this kind of thing. The rest isn't. Fuck you, Ubisoft.

 

[Xenich]

Heh, Nicolas Corral of Ubisoft touting the virtues of Uplay:

https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/uplay-and-m-m-x

Just look at the wonderful things you'll be able to unlock by racking up their special proprietary points!

Yup, as expected. Someone tell this guy about secrets and in-game unlockables that don't need any external shit infesting your computer. It'll blow his mind.

Wallpapers are fine for this kind of thing. The rest isn't. Fuck you, Ubisoft.

More I see companies pull this crap, the more I am inclined to disregard their products. They should go out of business for this sort of idiocy.

 

[Zeriel]

Obsidian pulls that shit, so you better not buy any of their products.

 

[Grunker]

Obsidian pulls that shit, so you better not buy any of their products.

They do? I'm not one to defend Obsidian (mostly because I don't like that many of their games), but I can't recall something similar in their products.

 

[Infinitron]

Well, it's pretty stupid, but at least it's not DLC you pay actual money for. (although perhaps there's a way to buy this stuff too? I dunno)

 

[Zeriel]

I mean items withheld for and given by DLC, yeah. Actually, what Obsidian has done is much worse (offering items for paid DLC).

It's pretty hard to find a modern developer who doesn't do this sort of thing somewhere. The only one I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't is Larian. (Of course they did when they were under contract with big publishers, so I guess that's similar to Obsidian. Then again, Obsidian wants to work with Bethesda again, while Larian worked their asses off to escape that system.)

 

[Grunker]

I mean items withheld for and given by DLC, yeah. Actually, what Obsidian has done is much worse (offering items for paid DLC).

Don't think the two concepts are really comparable, besides both being obnoxious of course.

 

[Abelian]

I'm kind of torn on the question of DLC's. One one hand, players who have bought the game should have a reasonable expectation that it should require a one-time investment and that they shouldn't miss any significant gameplay. The DLC's often provide only small improvements that were trivial to implement, and even worse, some of them restore cut content from the game (the infamous day 1 DLC's).

On the other hand, the DLC's might motivate the developer to support the game for a longer time. Things like cosmetic DLC's allow the developer to make some money from players with cash to spare and not lock out the players who bought the vanilla game. Kind of how government-operated lotteries allow people to waste money then use the revenue for improvements that would require taxes, or how late-payment and overdrawn credit-card fees help subsidize free checking accounts.

If the DLC's allow the base game to be cheaper for mass of players, I think it could prove a deterrent to piracy and help establish a larger customer base. However, if the DLC's are used to gouge players by adding new must-have features that favor the buyers, the game devolves into pay-to-win.

I kind of like the model used by Paradox Interactive for Crusader Kings II, where they have cosmetic DLC's like extra portraits, music and unit models that don't affect gameplay. When they release a significant mechanic change like Legacy of Rome, Sword of Islam, The Republic, and the Old Gods, they release a new patch that expands the gameplay, removes bugs and adds balances for the vanilla game.

Spoiler

 

[Sceptic]

Sceptic's right, of course, about the Microsoft Wavetable being an extremely poor translation of the Sound Canvas. I couldn't find any recordings comparing specifically Microsoft GS to an SC-55.

The poor translation is only part of the problem, that's what I was trying to say. The bigger problem is that "Microsoft GS" is in fact not GS at all. Yes I know they call it that, and yes I know they specifically claimed it was a Roland GS emulator based on Roland's own; they lied. GS is fully compatible with GM, being an extension of General MIDI is has all of the GM specifications plus its own GS-specific ones, but this also means that GM is not compatible with GS whenever the GS-specific sounds or special effects are called.

The long-winded explanation, for those who are interested in how this actually works and why the problem exists: GM uses 128 sound banks, so can never have more than 128 tones ("instruments" if you will) available at the same time. GS extends this, by assigning multiple tones to each of the 128 sound banks, and so it picks a tone using both the usual GM sound bank call and another call for whichever "sub-bank" has to be picked (incidentally, Yamaha's XG uses a similar system to expand sound banks, but its calls are not compatible with GS). The advantage is obvious: you can have a virtually unlimited number of tones (well, technically in the order of 16,000) available to your MIDI composition without having to load different sound sets every time a non-standard instrument is called for. Any MIDI composed on a GS device without using the sub-banks will sound perfectly fine if played back on a GM device. But if it does use the GS-specific sub-banks, it won't. What happens with WOX specifically is that sound bank #125, which in GM is "telephone ring", has sub-bank #2 for "door creak". If you play on a GS device (namely, any Sound Canvas, or any actual GS emulator like VSC), the game calls bank 125 then sub-bank 2, and the door creak plays. If you play the game on a GM device that isn't GS-compatible (such as Windoze wavetable synth), the game calls bank 125... but when it calls sub-bank 2 the MIDI device doesn't recognize the call and skips it, and therefore ends up playing the regular (sub-bank "zero") tone in bank 125, hence the telephone sound.

I don't remember the exact details, I think the poster said something about some newer units staying on the current sound bank if they receive a reset or something like that.
I don't remember the the exact hardware either, but I think they were SC models.
But when it comes down to it, you're fine if you use munt with MT-32/LAPC-I roms.

If that poster was trying to play an MT-32 MIDI using custom sound patches on a Sound-Canvas, then he is clueless. Thing is the MT-32 and GM/GS standards are COMPLETELY different (well, technically MT-32 isn't even a standard; LA synthesis, which the MT-32 family uses, is a proprietary Roland technology). The devices even generate sound in completely different ways; the MT-32 is not a wavetable synthesizer like virtually every GM and GS and XG device. What tricks people is that the Sound Canvas DOES have the complete MT-32 sound bank in its ROM (thanks to its use of sub-banks), so you can load that and have the same tones as the MT-32 on your SC... except the SC does NOT have the LA custom patch programming abilities (since it's a wavetable synthesizer instead), so the only way to get an MT-32 MIDI to sound right on a Sound Canvas is if it uses NO custom patches at all. Virtually ALL MT-32 games that I know of use custom patches, and even when they don't they use the extra tones that the CM-32L line of LA synthesizers has, and these are not included in the Sound Canvas. In fact I think the only game that is "pure" MT-32 with no custom patches is KQ4. Really, trying to play an MT-32 MIDI on a Sound Canvas, or on ANY General MIDI device (including Yamaha, your Korg keyboard, Windoze wavetable emulator, anything that isn't an actual MT-32 or Munt), is like trying to oven cook a pizza in a microwave. Sure you can cook it somehow (ie you will hear sound), but it's not going to taste anything like an oven cooked pizza. This is why MM3 sounds so off when you play it on anything but an MT-32/CM-32L or Munt.

(also, if you're using Munt, do NOT get the MT-32/LAPC ROMs; get the CM-32L ones)

 

[Infinitron]

Here are the nice Chinese kids who don't want to make paperdolls for you https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/meet-the-team-ubisoft-chengdu

They mention playing tabletop RPGs. I wonder what RPGs they play in China.

 

[Zeriel]

I have to say I really like all the new art they've done for M&M X. Makes me curious what the game would look like if they had done it all from scratch.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I have to say I really like all the new art they've done for M&M X. Makes me curious what the game would look like if they had done it all from scratch.

Yeah, they are far more better than Heroes 6 style.

 

[Why.jpeg]

Without combing through this entire thread for someone who has never played this series before is this game total shit? I don't mind grind base movement but, the game itself, do I play to play the other Might & Magic titles before I understand what is going on in game? Seems like this is interesting but I'm a poorfag so if I want games, it has to be at Christmas and everyone I know is too flakey to buy me a Christmas gift well after the affair. Yeah I know its still early access as well

 

[Infinitron]

Without combing through this entire thread for someone who has never played this series before is this game total shit? I don't mind grind base movement but, the game itself, do I play to play the other Might & Magic titles before I understand what is going on in game? Seems like this is interesting but I'm a poorfag so if I want games, it has to be at Christmas and everyone I know is too flakey to buy me a Christmas gift well after the affair. Yeah I know its still early access as well

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9110

(note, the game has changed a bit since that was written, eg there are now four more classes)

 

[Infinitron]

A little bit about the continuity between MMX and other games in the series: https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/the-ashan-legacy

AND WHAT ABOUT PRE-ASHAN GAMES?

If Ashan is not your cup of tea, don’t worry : the classic Might & Magic worlds and characters have not been forgotten in Legacy. You can for instance expect to meet new incarnations of familiar heroes like Maximus, Lord Haart, or Sir Christian.

There are also bigger connections between Might & Magic X and its forefathers. But you’ll have to discover those by yourselves…

Maximus the Orc Knight was a character of the default party in Might & Magic III: Isles of Terra. He later returned in Might & Magic VII, and his Enroth incarnation was a Knight hero in Heroes 1 and 2. It seemed fitting to make him one of the very first quest-givers in Legacy

 

[Grunker]

Can't say I give much of a toss, but nice gesture I suppose

 

[Abelian]

It's a nice gesture, but it doesn't really make any sense, like how they named king Nicolai in Homm5 after Nicolai Ironfist or mentioned Crag Hack and Sandro in some of the cut-scenes. If they wanted to break from the legacy (pun intended) of the Enroth/Erathia/Axeoth settings, then they shouldn't recycle characters like that and show they are capable of making compelling characters of their own.

Btw, I'm aware that the first few games didn't have a tight continuity (there were like three different Crag Hacks in the series) and these character names are just a way to pander to fans of the M&M series.