Might and Magic Might & Magic X Pre-Release Thread

[Grunker]

It's a nice gesture, but it doesn't really make any sense, like how they named king Nicolai in Homm5 after Nicolai Ironfist or mentioned Crag Hack and Sandro in some of the cut-scenes. If they wanted to break from the legacy (pun intended) of the Enroth/Erathia/Axeoth settings, then they shouldn't recycle characters like that and show they are capable of making compelling characters of their own.

I dunno, hasn't M&M always been a bit like Bond where every new start uses the same characters and themes and ideas but the setting as such isn't a unified whole?

 

[Dorateen]

Legacy is not just the next game in the Might & Magic series. This is something special. On a macro level, it represents a reboot of a style of RPG not seen for quite some time. And within the Might & Magic universe itself, a return to gameplay more familiar with World of Xeen. I'm for all the references they can throw in, as a wink and a nod to this storied franchise. Bring back Lord Peabody Von Pinehurst and his time travel machine!

 

[Abelian]

I dunno, hasn't M&M always been a bit like Bond where every new start uses the same characters and themes and ideas but the setting as such isn't a unified whole?

Overall, the story is very consistent. I think the only problem was that some names like Crag Hack, Sandro, Lord Kilburn and Lord Ironfist were reused on different worlds, but you can excuse that to the fact that the Heroes series wasn't originally planned to take place in the same universe as MM1-5.
I'll quote Sceptic from the Might and Magic Discussion thread (yes, I've read all of it), since he's way more qualified than me at M&M lore:

There is a very strong continuity but it's sometimes very subtle and the continuity overlaps a lot with the HOMM series
MM1-5 are kinda self-contained but your party from MM3 shows up again as NPCs in MM7. HOMM1 has some loose links with MM1, but MM6-8 and HOMM2-3 (with 3's expansions, but not 2's) are all very heavily linked and follow each other in strict chronological order (HOMM2, SOD, MM6, HOMM3, MM7, AB, MM8). HOMM4 is kind of an in-universe reboot (the reboot makes a lot more sense in light of the last HC game, MM2 and MM7 good ending), it moves to a different world but keeps some of the characters and threads.

NWC had the annoying habit of recycling the same name for what is clearly different characters. You could argue that Sandro from MM5 and SOD are the same person, though I remember there were things in his background that didn't fit, but Crag Hack from MM3 and SOD just can't be the same person. In fact Crag Hack appears as far back as MM1, where he's a Knight. You can then import him into MM2, but you can't import your party from MM2 to MM3, even though they're meant to be the same characters. If they are you then have to deal with his sudden change from Knight to Barbarian. The SOD Hack is a native of Antagarich and makes no mention whatsoever of being from another planet. Then MM1-3's Hack reappears in MM7 anyway.

I know that the party from MM7 is the same one as the one from MM3, but I'm not sure whether the part from MM3 is the same as the one from MM1-2.

 

[Grunker]

oh no, I ain't getting baited into that debate again

 

[Abelian]

The Might and Magic Wiki states that

After defeating Sheltem and his forces on CRON in Might and Magic II, the party of adventurers next find themselves transported to Sheltem`s homeworld of Terra. Here again, the adventurers must aid Corak in stopping Sheltem and putting an end to his evil machinations.

However, Wikipedia states:

After the defeat of Sheltem and his forces on CRON in Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World, a new party of adventurers from Sheltem's "homeworld" of Terra find themselves embroiled in the battle between the two Guardians.

Based on the default party from MM1 (Crag the Hack, Sir Galand, Zenon III, Swifty Sarg, Serena, Wizz Bane) and MM3 (Crag Hack, Dark Shade, Maximus, Resurrectra, Robert the Wise, Sir Caneghem and Tolberti), I think they are supposed to be different characters.

Now that I actually researched this, I think I've found all of Crag Hack's incarnations: (1) a knight called Crag the Hack in MM1-2, (2) dwarf barbarian in MM3 and MM7, (3) human barbarian in HoMM 1-4, (4) a human barbarian in the HoMM6 DLC Pirates of the Savage Sea, who was briefly mentioned in a HoMM5 cutscene.

And finally, for those who haven't read it, an explanation of why Crag Hack showed up in the first place, quoted from Jon van Caneghem's Codex Interview:

"Crag Hack" was one of my most played paper AD&D characters. He was a LVL 16 Human Neutral Fighter, 18/00 strength, used 2 one handed swords, acquired Psionics and among other things one of his hands was replaced with the "Hand of Vecna"... it’s a long story

OK, I'm done; we can go back to discussing MMX now.

Edit: I've reread Crag's biography from HoMM4, and if there's one character that epitomizes MM's storied past, it's gotta be him (bonus points for being one of the three heroes present in all the NWC HoMM titles, alongside Sandro and Gem; you can also count Luna, but as a Conflux hero she wasn't in Restoration of Erathia and the vampire in HoMM4 may or may not be her):

Crag Hack will forever remain an opportunist, fighting for pleasure and profit instead of foolish intangibles like ideals or beliefs. Even his narrow escape from the destruction of the old world (NWC) has failed to give him a more profound outlook on life.

Truly a Soldier of Fortune:

 

[Sceptic]

The Might and Magic Wiki states that

After defeating Sheltem and his forces on CRON in Might and Magic II, the party of adventurers next find themselves transported to Sheltem`s homeworld of Terra. Here again, the adventurers must aid Corak in stopping Sheltem and putting an end to his evil machinations.

However, Wikipedia states:

After the defeat of Sheltem and his forces on CRON in Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World, a new party of adventurers from Sheltem's "homeworld" of Terra find themselves embroiled in the battle between the two Guardians.

Based on the default party from MM1 (Crag the Hack, Sir Galand, Zenon III, Swifty Sarg, Serena, Wizz Bane) and MM3 (Crag Hack, Dark Shade, Maximus, Resurrectra, Robert the Wise, Sir Caneghem and Tolberti), I think they are supposed to be different characters.

It's a gameplay/story segregation thing. MM1-3 is supposed to feature the same party pursuing Sheltem from VARN to CRON and back to Terra where it all stated. But between 2 and 3 the engine changed, and so they just didn't allow importing, changed the starting classes of the characters and reset everyone to level 1. They're meant to be the same party though, as evidenced from Sheltem's speech in the MM3 intro. I think the discrepancy between the Wikis is that one is talking from an in-world perspective (M&M Wiki) and the other from a more mechanistic perspective (Wikipedia), and Wikipedia is assuming the mechanics and the lore match (in this case they don't).

 

[Abelian]

It's a gameplay/story segregation thing. [. . .] They're meant to be the same party though, as evidenced from Sheltem's speech in the MM3 intro.

That certainly makes sense. I watched the Isles of Terra intro and he mentions "invading my world" and "third challenge". Thanks for clearing that up .

 

[Infinitron]

Looks like they listened to my advice about talking more about the game: https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/the-power-of-relics

THE STUFF THAT DREAMS ARE MADE OF

If you’ve played the previous Might & Magic games, you know that feeling. You just completed a tough dungeon. You find a chest hidden in a secret room. You open it, heart full of hope. And inside, you find what you were looking for: a Relic.

Relics are unique and powerful items. In the previous games they were sometimes split in two categories: Relics and Artefacts. You might remember some of them from the old games: Aegis and Pellinore. Ghoulsbane and Iron Feather. The Mace of the Sun and the Scepter of Kings. Einherjar and Everstrike…

These powerful items are back in Might & Magic X Legacy, unified as a single category named simply Relics. Some are awarded by completing quests, other are found by killing bosses or hidden in the depths of the most dangerous dungeons. Relics don’t just have a unique name and icon; they also have a text description telling their story.

But there is something different about the Relics in Might & Magic X Legacy. The moment you find them, they are already powerful items. But they actually gain experience the longer you wear them, unlocking new bonuses, and revealing more of their lore.

...

The way Relics are handled in Legacy is somewhat inspired by the Dynasty Weapons of Might & Magic: Heroes VI, which shared a similar principle of gaining experience the more they were used. However our Relics don’t necessitate to be online to be equipped, and their powers are more subdued than those of the Dynasty Weapons. Also, they are not only weapons – inLegacy, every item type has its own Relic (except miscellaneous items like rings and amulets).

But truth be told, one of the major inspiration behind the Relics is a pen-and-paper roleplaying game named Earthdawn. In Earthdawn, major artefacts become stronger the more a character uncovers their past and secrets, allowing him to bind himself to the item. I always found that principle fascinating, although not easy to translate in a computer game. The mechanics of the Relics of Legacy are simpler, but descend from this great idea that the powers of the item are linked to its history.

 

[Luzur]

Without combing through this entire thread for someone who has never played this series before is this game total shit? I don't mind grind base movement but, the game itself, do I play to play the other Might & Magic titles before I understand what is going on in game? Seems like this is interesting but I'm a poorfag so if I want games, it has to be at Christmas and everyone I know is too flakey to buy me a Christmas gift well after the affair. Yeah I know its still early access as well

if you have tried out MM1-5 you should not have any problem with this one.

 

[Luzur]

Edit: I've reread Crag's biography from HoMM4, and if there's one character that epitomizes MM's storied past, it's gotta be him (bonus points for being one of the three heroes present in all the NWC HoMM titles, alongside Sandro and Gem; you can also count Luna, but as a Conflux hero she wasn't in Restoration of Erathia and the vampire in HoMM4 may or may not be her):

Crag Hack will forever remain an opportunist, fighting for pleasure and profit instead of foolish intangibles like ideals or beliefs. Even his narrow escape from the destruction of the old world (NWC) has failed to give him a more profound outlook on life.

Truly a Soldier of Fortune:

its not often it happens, but you made me kinda manly grim tight-jawed and teary-eyed with your post

and to Crag-Hack

 

[Luzur]

It's a gameplay/story segregation thing. [. . .] They're meant to be the same party though, as evidenced from Sheltem's speech in the MM3 intro.

That certainly makes sense. I watched the Isles of Terra intro and he mentions "invading my world" and "third challenge". Thanks for clearing that up .

and in the outro of MM3 they blast off into space, and not to be seen until MM7.

 

[Storyfag]

But truth be told, one of the major inspiration behind the Relics is a pen-and-paper roleplaying game named Earthdawn.

 

[undecaf]

 

[Morphi]

I wonder if the game would be more like classic MM if Julien Pirou where in charge of the MM brand (eg. a classic mage/cleric magic system, not this hybrid system "because it must be like HoMM6" Canon!!!) We probably would also get more classic story elements (Scifi) and less Ashan fanwank. Just a feeling...

Also where are their PR ladies?

 

[Abelian]

Looks like they listened to my advice about talking more about the game: https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/the-power-of-relics

But there is something different about the Relics in Might & Magic X Legacy. The moment you find them, they are already powerful items. But they actually gain experience the longer you wear them, unlocking new bonuses, and revealing more of their lore.

Now this is a feature I can support, if implemented right. I've always had this feeling that having an NPC who could identify all the properties of an item, no matter how exotic or ancient, was a stretch of the imagination (I'm looking at you Deckard Cain), but just accepted it as a convenience mechanic. But having the item get experience the more you use it is a neat way of rationalizing that the user gets used to the item and grows more comfortable with its features.

My only concern is balance, since if the item is too weak, it might never have a chance to get used enough, but if it's too powerful, it can lead to meta-gaming where players use these exclusively (ex. if you have a dwarf warrior, you should get the above-mentioned Ancestor Mask and nothing else because it becomes more powerful and no other helm will beat it). The second issue could be solved through reasonable item level caps.

Edit: I paid closer attention to the screenshot and the Mask has an experience cap of 7760.

 

[Grunker]

Without combing through this entire thread for someone who has never played this series before is this game total shit? I don't mind grind base movement but, the game itself, do I play to play the other Might & Magic titles before I understand what is going on in game? Seems like this is interesting but I'm a poorfag so if I want games, it has to be at Christmas and everyone I know is too flakey to buy me a Christmas gift well after the affair. Yeah I know its still early access as well

if you have tried out MM1-5 you should not have any problem with this one.

Nah, you can start with this one if you feel like it. I started with VII and have played them all in no particular order.

They're recommendable though! You're cheating yourself out of some fun games if you don't play a couple.

 

[Broseph]

All of them are at least good, excluding 9 of course. 8 is debatable as well.

Call me crazy, but I really think MMX could end up being the best Might & Magic game. Combat is actually somewhat enjoyable now, and you actually get (some) real encounter design instead of mobs of the same enemies copypasted across fuckhueg maps. Inventory management is finally painless, and the map outside of the starting town feels like MM3 in 3D. Lots of nicely hidden loot chests and optional challenges, and random tiles with goodies hidden in the ground. My only complaint with the Early Access at this point is that it's still a little too slow. Otherwise, it feels like a really solid spiritual successor to Xeen.

 

[Grunker]

All of them are at least good, excluding 9 of course. 8 is debatable as well.

Call me crazy, but I really think MMX could end up being the best Might & Magic game. Combat is actually somewhat enjoyable now, and you actually get (some) real encounter design instead of mobs of the same enemies copypasted across fuckhueg maps. Inventory management is finally painless, and the map outside of the starting town feels like MM3 in 3D. Lots of nicely hidden loot chests and optional challenges, and random tiles with goodies hidden in the ground. My only complaint with the Early Access at this point is that it's still a little too slow. Otherwise, it feels like a really solid spiritual successor to Xeen.

I think we should brace for a shitstorm, but I very much agree with you.

 

[narupley]

If they can only just fix the fucking movement/animation speed. That should be their top priority right now, because otherwise the game is way too frustrating to play for any length of time. Just give me an option to turn off all movement/enemy animations altogether. Maybe in the beginning it'd be cool to see, but after a while you just want to fucking get places and fight things ASAP.

 

[Magellan]

Without combing through this entire thread for someone who has never played this series before is this game total shit? I don't mind grind base movement but, the game itself, do I play to play the other Might & Magic titles before I understand what is going on in game? Seems like this is interesting but I'm a poorfag so if I want games, it has to be at Christmas and everyone I know is too flakey to buy me a Christmas gift well after the affair. Yeah I know its still early access as well

I'm sure you'll be 100% fine if you haven't played any of the previous games.

That being said, Might and Magic 1 through 6 is only $9.99 on gog.com (occasionally cheaper when on sale), and all 6 are great games. Check them out if you can (you may want to start with 3, or 4-5 since they're less dated than 1 and 2).

 

[Magellan]

If they can only just fix the fucking movement/animation speed. That should be their top priority right now, because otherwise the game is way too frustrating to play for any length of time. Just give me an option to turn off all movement/enemy animations altogether. Maybe in the beginning it'd be cool to see, but after a while you just want to fucking get places and fight things ASAP.

I like having the animated movement (instead of just "hopping" from tile to tile), but you're right, it's painfully slow. I don't know why it would be hard to fix. I don't remember Grimrock's movement being slow.

 

[Grunker]

If they can only just fix the fucking movement/animation speed. That should be their top priority right now, because otherwise the game is way too frustrating to play for any length of time. Just give me an option to turn off all movement/enemy animations altogether. Maybe in the beginning it'd be cool to see, but after a while you just want to fucking get places and fight things ASAP.

I like having the animated movement (instead of just "hopping" from tile to tile), but you're right, it's painfully slow. I don't know why it would be hard to fix. I don't remember Grimrock's movement being slow.

Grimrock's movement was insanely slow actually, it just didn't matter because Grimrock was small spaces, pondering thought, and you often had to stop to look around and shit. Grimrock didn't have you travelling long reaches or walking back and forth in town.

 

[Abelian]

Without combing through this entire thread for someone who has never played this series before is this game total shit? I don't mind grind base movement but, the game itself, do I play to play the other Might & Magic titles before I understand what is going on in game? Seems like this is interesting but I'm a poorfag so if I want games, it has to be at Christmas and everyone I know is too flakey to buy me a Christmas gift well after the affair. Yeah I know its still early access as well

I'm sure you'll be 100% fine if you haven't played any of the previous games.

That being said, Might and Magic 1 through 6 is only $9.99 on gog.com (occasionally cheaper when on sale), and all 6 are great games. Check them out if you can (you may want to start with 3, or 4-5 since they're less dated than 1 and 2).

In past years GOG.com had a 50% Christmas sale, with special days devoted to certain developers/publishers such as NWC.

 

[Morphi]

Does anybody know if JVC already has a new job?

 

[Magellan]

If they can only just fix the fucking movement/animation speed. That should be their top priority right now, because otherwise the game is way too frustrating to play for any length of time. Just give me an option to turn off all movement/enemy animations altogether. Maybe in the beginning it'd be cool to see, but after a while you just want to fucking get places and fight things ASAP.

I like having the animated movement (instead of just "hopping" from tile to tile), but you're right, it's painfully slow. I don't know why it would be hard to fix. I don't remember Grimrock's movement being slow.

Grimrock's movement was insanely slow actually, it just didn't matter because Grimrock was small spaces, pondering thought, and you often had to stop to look around and shit. Grimrock didn't have you travelling long reaches or walking back and forth in town.

Was it slow when it was first released? I just fired it up for a moment to refresh my memory, and it's really fast. It they were to speed up the movement any more, it would be Call of Duty: Grimrock