[LP CYOA] 傳

[Storyfag]

So much DISCUSS! going on ITT

Voting B. As noted by Tigranes, it will be much easier to go unorthodox from orthodox, than the other way around. And I like the sound of the yin-yang balance thing.

 

[Absinthe]

Storyfag, you realize that the E choice does not prohibit you from learning orthodox martial arts, but A through C and possibly D all prohibit you from learning unorthodox martial arts as going against the teachings of the martial arts school?

 

[Storyfag]

I don't see it that way. Getting access to orthodox skills while not a member of a pugilistic sect will surely be much harder, than, shall we say, bending some of our sect's rules to learn terribu forbiddu skirru!

 

[Storyfag]

Arso, I demand a Stanrey Roo expy in this LP as an antagonist

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

You say that the other sect would just accept us because we are willing and able, but treave has pretty much said that us being unorthodox will cause the orthodox sects to really look down upon us and shun us. That seems like it would make it rather difficult for us to learn their techniques.

Besides, this isn't like a shopping trip where we can pick and chose what we want. The sects aren't going to divulge their secrets to some random upstart who hasn't been doing things the right way just because he showed up on their doorstep and wanted to learn their secrets.

 

[Absinthe]

You say that the other sect would just accept us because we are willing and able, but treave has pretty much said that us being unorthodox will cause the orthodox sects to really look down upon us and shun us. That seems like it would make it rather difficult for us to learn their techniques.

Only if you actually try to enter as an unorthodox martial artist. Picking E does not automatically mean darkside jedi and even if you do it doesn't mean you would show off unorthodox moves in your attempt to enter an orthodox school. It's also possible to learn orthodox martial arts without being a member of the sect.

Besides, this isn't like a shopping trip where we can pick and chose what we want. The sects aren't going to divulge their secrets to some random upstart who hasn't been doing things the right way just because he showed up on their doorstep and wanted to learn their secrets.

Not right off the bat, no. But there probably would be a test and such.

 

[Baltika9]

What Absinthe said. If a rather upstanding boy who has helped your sect out quite a bit in the past comes to you one day, admitting the error of his unorthodox ways, I'm sure you'd give him a chance. Yeah, we'll start from the bottom with them, but it's still possible. I'm sure that orthodox defectors have a more shameful stigma on them than those that started off unorthodox and want to recant. We don't have to recant for real, but we can give that impression.

Also, I'm pretty sure that all these different schools had a historic rivalry between them, so choosing one locks out all the others automatically. E, however, keeps the possibilities open down the line.

Arso, I demand a Stanrey Roo expy in this LP as an antagonist

I concur.

 

[Esquilax]

I think that the pro-orthodox and the anti- side are both a little bit guilty of wishful thinking.

I won't feel bad at all if B wins, but going to unorthodox from orthodox will actually be much harder than the other way around. If you start out unorthodox, you are distrusted until you undertake the arduous task of proving otherwise, but if you betray your sect to go train with a bunch of bandits out in the slums, you're traitorous scum and I don't think they'll ever let that shit slide. We might be able to go to another sect in the future if we pay our dues for a decade and leave on really good terms, but Tigranes is off on this point.

I see a lot of benefits to joining a sect, particularly the Wudang that corresponds to our abilities very well: it gives us discipline, provides us with a strong base and a set of starter techniques to work with, a bunch of friends and a sense of direction (i.e. a philosophy). There is a lot to like about joining a sect. But I feel that given our character's obvious martial arts talent, and above average intelligence and charisma, that he can develop a more complete martial arts style that would fill in a lot of the gaps that the various schools wouldn't provide. At the same time, I believe our guy has the moral integrity and the charm to make a few friends and learn a few orthodox techniques down the road.

ScubaV, My goal here isn't to acquire every technique, rather my point was that I don't understand the orthodox philosophy of hoarding knowledge leads to an incomplete martial artist. Why isn't there a bad motherfucker out there who's managed to put all that stuff together to find his own school? I'm sure there are guys who know techniques from several disciplines - as treave mentioned before, we can learn techniques from other sects, the rule here is "don't get caught" - but it's quite curious that there isn't a guy out there who's established a style that really puts it all together (i.e. a Jeet-Kune-Do or MMA style that mixes everything together).

 

[ScubaV]

I think that the pro-orthodox and the anti- side are both a little bit guilty of wishful thinking.

I won't feel bad at all if B wins, but going to unorthodox from orthodox will actually be much harder than the other way around. If you start out unorthodox, you are distrusted until you undertake the arduous task of proving otherwise, but if you betray your sect to go train with a bunch of bandits out in the slums, you're traitorous scum and I don't think they'll ever let that shit slide. We might be able to go to another sect in the future if we pay our dues for a decade and leave on really good terms, but Tigranes is off on this point.

I see a lot of benefits to joining a sect, particularly the Wudang that corresponds to our abilities very well: it gives us discipline, provides us with a strong base and a set of starter techniques to work with, a bunch of friends and a sense of direction (i.e. a philosophy). There is a lot to like about joining a sect. But I feel that given our character's obvious martial arts talent, and above average intelligence and charisma, that he can develop a more complete martial arts style that would fill in a lot of the gaps that the various schools wouldn't provide. At the same time, I believe our guy has the moral integrity and the charm to make a few friends and learn a few orthodox techniques down the road.

ScubaV, My goal here isn't to acquire every technique, rather my point was that I don't understand the orthodox philosophy of hoarding knowledge leads to an incomplete martial artist. Why isn't there a bad motherfucker out there who's managed to put all that stuff together to find his own school? I'm sure there are guys who know techniques from several disciplines - as treave mentioned before, we can learn techniques from other sects, the rule here is "don't get caught" - but it's quite curious that there isn't a guy out there who's established a style that really puts it all together (i.e. a Jeet-Kune-Do or MMA style that mixes everything together).

I intended a strong element of sarcasm in my post on that point, but I guess it didn't come across. I still think forming our own gestalt of disparate techniques is best served by starting from orthodoxy. Fortunately, I believe B is in a 1 point lead over E thanks to Storyfag and we shall drink those sweet and succulent unorthodox tears.

 

[Jester]

Would be hilarious if we can meet kabuki actor and martial artist Bras Li during our adventure.

If there is someone who doing multiple styles learning would say he is branded as traitor. Unorthodox most likely.
Cant we make it easier to reverse engineer techs by fighting them?

 

[Absinthe]

I intended a strong element of sarcasm in my post on that point, but I guess it didn't come across. I still think forming our own gestalt of disparate techniques is best served by starting from orthodoxy. Fortunately, I believe B is in a 1 point lead over E thanks to Storyfag and we shall drink those sweet and succulent unorthodox tears.

Actually his B vote cancels out my E vote so it's still a dead heat.

BTW, while I agree with Esquilax on the difficulty of shifting gears and the appeal of sect-free martial arts, I think folks are ignoring the fact that choosing A through D will mean doing it with the palace's letter, which is going to cause problems down the road. Picking E and then bum-rushing for a sect will still have the character in an orthodox sect. Harder but it loses the trail and the tiger can do hard.

PS: If vote preferences matter, my vote order is E then D.

 

[Baltika9]

I think that the pro-orthodox and the anti- side are both a little bit guilty of wishful thinking.

I won't feel bad at all if B wins, but going to unorthodox from orthodox will actually be much harder than the other way around. If you start out unorthodox, you are distrusted until you undertake the arduous task of proving otherwise, but if you betray your sect to go train with a bunch of bandits out in the slums, you're traitorous scum and I don't think they'll ever let that shit slide. We might be able to go to another sect in the future if we pay our dues for a decade and leave on really good terms, but Tigranes is off on this point.

I see a lot of benefits to joining a sect, particularly the Wudang that corresponds to our abilities very well: it gives us discipline, provides us with a strong base and a set of starter techniques to work with, a bunch of friends and a sense of direction (i.e. a philosophy). There is a lot to like about joining a sect. But I feel that given our character's obvious martial arts talent, and above average intelligence and charisma, that he can develop a more complete martial arts style that would fill in a lot of the gaps that the various schools wouldn't provide. At the same time, I believe our guy has the moral integrity and the charm to make a few friends and learn a few orthodox techniques down the road.

ScubaV, My goal here isn't to acquire every technique, rather my point was that I don't understand the orthodox philosophy of hoarding knowledge leads to an incomplete martial artist. Why isn't there a bad motherfucker out there who's managed to put all that stuff together to find his own school? I'm sure there are guys who know techniques from several disciplines - as treave mentioned before, we can learn techniques from other sects, the rule here is "don't get caught" - but it's quite curious that there isn't a guy out there who's established a style that really puts it all together (i.e. a Jeet-Kune-Do or MMA style that mixes everything together).

I intended a strong element of sarcasm in my post on that point, but I guess it didn't come across. I still think forming our own gestalt of disparate techniques is best served by starting from orthodoxy. Fortunately, I believe B is in a 1 point lead over E thanks to Storyfag and we shall drink those sweet and succulent unorthodox tears.

Sorry, man, that infers sadism and an orthodox practitioner can't allow himself to be driven by such nonsense. But hey, if you want to drink tears, unorthodox is the way to go.

 

[ScubaV]

I intended a strong element of sarcasm in my post on that point, but I guess it didn't come across. I still think forming our own gestalt of disparate techniques is best served by starting from orthodoxy. Fortunately, I believe B is in a 1 point lead over E thanks to Storyfag and we shall drink those sweet and succulent unorthodox tears.

Actually his B vote cancels out my E vote so it's still a dead heat.

BTW, while I agree with Esquilax on the difficulty of shifting gears and the appeal of sect-free martial arts, I think folks are ignoring the fact that choosing A through D will mean doing it with the palace's letter, which is going to cause problems down the road. Picking E and then bum-rushing for a sect will still have the character in an orthodox sect. Harder but it loses the trail and the tiger can do hard.

PS: If vote preferences matter, my vote order is E then D.

Actually, Xenomorph voted C > anything but E. Since C won't win, logically he flops to B, giving us a 1 vote lead.

 

[Esquilax]

BTW, while I agree with Esquilax on the difficulty of shifting gears and the appeal of sect-free martial arts, I think folks are ignoring the fact that choosing A through D will mean doing it with the palace's letter, which is going to cause problems down the road. Picking E and then bum-rushing for a sect will still have the character in an orthodox sect. Harder but it loses the trail and the tiger can do hard.

No matter what choice we pick, we are going to stick around with our sect - or lack thereof - for the next few years. The letter is really insignificant here - only the big wigs at the school we're heading to will have it, and if we strike it out on our own, we should burn the letters. With our luck, it's only a matter of time before some ruthless assassin we're training under finds it. My point is that we must commit to our choice for the mid to long term timeframe.

I understand that E carries risks, but given Xu Jing's talent at martial arts and his independent spirit, forging a style of his own that takes the best from other schools seems to be a worthy goal given our abilities. Given our personal integrity and our charisma, I think that in time we could make a few contacts and even friends among the orthodox sects even if they might not like us as a group very much.

I also think that we are not really considering our Shadow Step qinggong; if we're running the underworld and learning martial arts from various ne'er-do-wells, a rare technique like this will really help us out in the beginning. Quite frankly, I don't even know how the various sects would react if they knew we'd learned martial arts from some Tujue nomads. I am fairly certain that Huluzi himself was an unorthodox practitioner - is this correct, treave?

 

[treave]

A question for treave, if you don't mind: how random is E going to be for us? The other four choices all have a weapon skill or two that is emphasized and a different discipline that is explicitly mentioned. For instance, I like B and C because they both train in swords, the skill that we all seem to like for our character. In E will there be any chance of us somehow choosing what we learn, or if we happen only to find the master of basket weaving and drunken archery along our travels that is what we have to settle for.

I ask because everyone is making this a choice between orthodox vs. unorthodox, and I was wondering if it would be that cut and dry. Is it also a choice of pick your discipline vs. what you happen to stumble across?

Again, don't answer if this is breaking the rules or ruining something coming up.

Random as in rolling a dice to determine which unorthodox character you run across? No, I won't be doing that.

Will you explicitly get to pick and choose and search for masters you want? Maybe, but not right off the bat. Being a fourteen year old boy with little knowledge of the pugilistic world and zero contacts to speak of, I find it unlikely you'll just somehow know where all the unorthodox masters are, or that anyone is going to tell you that easily. Unorthodox practitioners don't spread their name around like the major sects.

You will have to gather information. At the same time, you will have to work for food. You won't be jumping into martial arts and specializing in it immediately unlike with the sects, but it does cultivate a more independent streak and varied skillset. By the way, you'll have to remember that training in a technique requires you reach an appropriate rank in skill.

Before you gain a solid foothold, which I don't think will happen in just a few weeks, which members of the pugilistic community you come across is less choice, more a matter of chance.

And that ultimately means that with E, at least initially, I decide who you meet and how you start off.

 

[treave]

.
I also think that we are not really considering our Shadow Step qinggong; if we're running the underworld and learning martial arts from various ne'er-do-wells, a rare technique like this will really help us out in the beginning. Quite frankly, I don't even know how the various sects would react if they knew we'd learned martial arts from some Tujue nomads. I am fairly certain that Huluzi himself was an unorthodox practitioner - is this correct, @treave?

The more uptight schools would consider him one because he's using techniques that weren't developed in China proper, yes. I won't say which, because you don't know which yet. But that doesn't mean you don't get Tujue-haters in the unorthodox community either. There'll be people who dislike your nomad technique on both sides.

 

[Baltika9]

I honestly don't understand why some equate unorthodox martial artists with villains. Sure, there will be bad aplles, but there will also be freethinkers, rebels, adventurers, neutral mercs and simple wandering do-gooders. Just because you're orthodox doesn't mean you're automatically the good guy either, their "discipline" and codes can leave them very apathetic to the putside world.

It's like considering the Gieloth evil purely off of them eating people, not bothering to look further.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Let's just head West and find Gunz.

 

[Esquilax]

I honestly don't understand why some equate unorthodox martial artists with villains. Sure, there will be bad aplles, but there will also be freethinkers, rebels, adventurers, neutral mercs and simple wandering do-gooders. Just because you're orthodox doesn't mean you're automatically the good guy either, their "discipline" and codes can leave them very apathetic to the putside world.

Because most of them are. I'm sure we'll encounter self-righteous, control-freak types among the orthodox sects too, but being part of a sect is like having a degree from a university: it lets people know that you've attended an accredited institution.

The more uptight schools would consider him one because he's using techniques that weren't developed in China proper, yes. I won't say which, because you don't know which yet. But that doesn't mean you don't get Tujue-haters in the unorthodox community either. There'll be people who dislike your nomad technique on both sides.

Out of the ones listed, I have a fairly decent idea of which sects would consider the Tujue technique unorthodox. For example, I doubt that the Shaolin Temple, which is strict and considers itself the originator of martial arts in the Central Plains, would give Tujue technique very much credit.

Before you gain a solid foothold, which I don't think will happen in just a few weeks, which members of the pugilistic community you come across is less choice, more a matter of chance.

Good thing Jing is such a lucky guy, I'm sure we'll stumble onto an incredible master in like five minutes.

 

[LWC1996]

I think we should take a few cues from one of history's great martial artists. This guy reminds me a bit of Xu Jing: incredibly athletic and strong, plus he had intelligence and an undeniable personal magnetism. Sadly, he suffered some tragic luck and his life was cut short:

"When one has reached maturity in the art, one will have a formless form. It is like ice dissolving in water. When one has no form, one can be all forms; when one has no style, he can fit in with any style.
...
Flow in the living moment. — We are always in a process of becoming and NOTHING is fixed. Have no rigid system in you, and you'll be flexible to change with the ever changing. OPEN yourself and flow, my friend. Flow in the TOTAL OPENNESS OF THE LIVING MOMENT. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo."
...
The Moment is freedom. — I couldn't live by a rigid schedule. I try to live freely from moment to moment, letting things happen and adjusting to them.

E

Really cool you mentioned Bruce Lee as an example, but you're not giving the whole picture of his free-flowing non-rigid martial philosophy. He studied Wing Chun under the Wing Chun master, Yip Man. (Some of you may recognize it as Ip Man with Donnie Yen as the titular character.) So Bruce didn't not begin his martial arts development as we know it from nothing.

Another example is Jet Li. He was trained in wushu from when he was eight. And he studied under masters as well for several years and he learned several wushu styles and became a master of several styles like Changguan (Northern Longfist Style) and Taijiquan (Supreme ultimate fist), Zuiquan (Drunken fist) etc. He also studied three section staff, straight sword etc. All of which are main weapons in wushu.

If you want another example Donnie Yen - a MMA style martial arts guy - he too learned wushu at a young age for several years and when he got older he studied taekwondo. He spent several years shoring up his martial arts foundation and understanding of martial arts before he went on to learn more styles and developed his own style.

For that matter even Sammo Hung and Jackie Chan had to train many years in the Peking Opera School to learn what they do so well now and they had successfully adapted their style with what they had spent years learning in their youth.

See the pattern here?

If this does not convince anyone that Jing needs a solid foundation in martial arts before he goes wandering around looking for that psycho Woman-in-Black in the non-orthodox side of the wuxia world.... I don't know what will. Jing needs to be able to at least defend himself or come to defense of someone weaker well enough if he's coming up against higher level foes. Don't go saving people if you can't even kick your foes' ass properly. One cannot walk without crawling first.

Even with heretic hermits, you will still have to give up several years of your life training under him. That's why Shun said that it would be many years before what he has set in motion with Jing will come to fruition. Because it takes at least that long to ingratiate yourself with the sect and the higher ranking members of the sect.

Heretic hermits or not, even they won't teach you immediately the best of their moves. They need to gauge your sincerity in learning the basics before they are willing to teach you the higher level ones. And that could take years too. Heretic hermits are more paranoid than most. Imagine being shunned for so long and suddenly some young kid comes to you and says he wants to be your student, wouldn't you be immediately suspicious why there's someone who wants to learn from you after being ignored for so long. Paranoia makes for bad master.

In sects, usually those who become masters are the lucky ones that get to learn the totally top-secret kungfu of their sects from the outgoing masters. They usu. have several talented apprentices that have trained many many years with them.

 

[Absinthe]

Let's just head West and find Gunz.

Changing my vote to "Lets find guns." > E > D
Being a gunslinger in wuxialand would make this LP more interesting, but considering China invented gunpowder (and guns), I reckon it wouldn't help to leave the country.

Good thing Jing is such a lucky guy, I'm sure we'll stumble onto an incredible master in like five minutes.

Probably would. Like I said, he'd be learning with his body.

Sects which would despise the Yinglang Step:

A. Shaolin Temple. Renowned as the originator of martial arts in the Central Plains, the Buddhist monks of Shaolin are known for their ability with unarmed fighting and staves. Some of the most powerful martial arts can be found in Shaolin. However, they have extremely strict rules, and frequently expel those who cannot abide by their laws.

Definitely.

B. Wudang Sect. The Taoist priests on Mount Wudang have developed techniques based around Taiji. Harmonizing yin and yang, Wudang emphasizes mastery of balance as its initiates learn how to redirect the flow of their opponent’s attacks. Sword and unarmed techniques are the staple of Wudang.

Odds are he'll be running into a bit of Tujue-hate just because it's a foreign technique, but on the whole should be roughly neutral.

C. Huashan Sect. The noble swordsmen of Mount Hua have trained long and hard to develop their reputation as one of the most powerful sects in the pugilistic world. Their weapon techniques are malleable and flexible, and their masters are reputed to be lethal swordsmen even with a stick in hand. Though the sword is the sect’s main focus, they also dabble in sabers and spears.

The proud school of mighty swordsmen will not approve of "...but I could just sneak up behind him and stab him in the back!"

D. Beggars’ Sect. The beggars are a widespread union that spans the entirety of the country. Beggars’ Sect members can be found in every city, and their information network is unmatched. You have to become a beggar to join. The Beggars’ Sect emphasizes staves, thrown weapons and unarmed fighting in their techniques.

If anything, probably approve.

 

[Baltika9]

Hey, maybe we'll meet the Grorious Porku Farmeru in our independent travels.
Since we still have a full day for our slapfight, let's step back for a bit. Do you guys have any idea why we failed to die from Sarkeesian's palm strikes back at camp? The given reason is "because you have shit luck," that strikes me as really odd, combined with our birth under a cursed sign, the Emperor seeking us out for that same reason and his love of all things mystic. Thoughts, anyone?
Edit: paging The Brazilian Slaughter.
Edit 2:

I honestly don't understand why some equate unorthodox martial artists with villains. Sure, there will be bad aplles, but there will also be freethinkers, rebels, adventurers, neutral mercs and simple wandering do-gooders. Just because you're orthodox doesn't mean you're automatically the good guy either, their "discipline" and codes can leave them very apathetic to the putside world.

Because most of them are. I'm sure we'll encounter self-righteous, control-freak types among the orthodox sects too, but being part of a sect is like having a degree from a university: it lets people know that you've attended an accredited institution.

Come now, I'm sure that most of them will gravitate towards the "neutral" rather than "evil" side, with the broad umbrella of unorthodoxy, I doubt everyone there is a villain.

 

[Azira]

Good thing we've chosen a character that's so lucky, what with the number of people willing to let Jing try his hand at this on his own. Will make it super easy to find someone willing to teach him.

 

[Nevill]

Good thing we've chosen a character that's so lucky, what with the number of people willing to let Jing try his hand at this on his own. Will make it super easy to find someone willing to teach him.

Because we a making luck-based rolls to determine who we meet. Oh wait.

A bit of advice for the future: don't plan for bad luck when making the choices. Luck is capricious and unpredictable, even the bad sort. You're not at the level of terrible luck that you know will happen consistently, all day, every day, so heading into every choice thinking that you should try to predict any misfortune about to happen is only going to be a tiring waste of time.

 

[Azira]

I think you're misinterpreting either mine or treave's words here.

I'm not saying we should plan according to our luck. I'm saying that we should try to make luck play as little a role as we possibly can.
We're sent out to find information about the sects? Would be a good idea to start within one then.