[LP CYOA] 傳

[Baltika9]

But, yeah, I don't quite see the reason for your revulsion to E purely because it's unorthodox: that's a field with a lot of potential.

 

[Stygian Lurker]

voting E

 

[Zero Credibility]

If we are to be a secret agent of the Prince, we should leave our old life (and preferably our old name as well) behind, right? The problem is that the letter could be a dead giveaway to our past for any choice expect E. I mean, if we later need to infiltrate some shadow organisation and they start digging into out past, wouldn't the the fact that we were admitted in the sect based on an Imperial order look just a bit suspicious? Just something to think about.

The orthodox crowd do have some good points, even though I marginally still prefer the open road. Hey treave the Prince isn't going to be insulted if we choose the unorthodox option, is he? How hard was it for him to get that letter anyway?

 

[treave]

He did say he wasn't expecting any results for a few years, and he'll leave how to conduct the operation to you. The letter wasn't too hard to get. It's a generic letter of sorts. It's not exactly common for the palace to recommend someone, but it does happen from time to time. Usually some young noble kid with heroic delusions of grandeur, though they never last long. You won't have to worry about your identity. Those not in the know will not know of your background as companion. Those in the know will merely know that you have been cast out. The prince's orders are between you and him only, and to be frank it's a rather long shot. Few would suspect the 14 year old prince had sent out a spy.

 

[Azira]

It seems most likely that the enemies of the prince is to be found in sects that have the least "understanding" with the court. Our current orthodox options are friendly to a point. If they are not the princes direct enemies, I cannot see them share information with people from another sect.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand this, these sects are in competition with one another, and information would not flow freely in such a case.

Why would they divulge information about one of their students to outsiders?
I think you're seeing ghosts where there are none, Zero Credibility.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Flopping to E because I think it will make a more interesting read.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I think you're seeing ghosts where there are none, Zero Credibility.

Just (over)thinking ahead.

 

[Esquilax]

I'm reasonably happy with the way things turned out. We may have been booted from the Imperial Palace, but at least we have saved Yunzi from the evil clutches of Anita Sarkeesian.

The Wudang sect intrigues me, and not just because it specializes in our natural predispositions. The philosophies of balancing yin and yang seem interesting, especially since our character is very much a forceful, yang personality. Balance would do Xu Jing some good, I reckon.

Wudang Sect. The Taoist priests on Mount Wudang have developed techniques based around Taiji. Harmonizing yin and yang, Wudang emphasizes mastery of balance as its initiates learn how to redirect the flow of their opponent’s attacks. Sword and unarmed techniques are the staple of Wudang.
...
A person's natural qi can be changed via the practice of inner strength techniques. Even if they may be more inclined towards yang, with the proper teachings and effort, they can cultivate a strong yin energy. However, it is almost impossible for a person to maintain a strong presence of both yin and yang within his body - this can lead to the practitioner going berserk. Thus, most inner strength techniques will elevate one type of qi while reducing the other at the same time.

However, I am still not entirely sold on B, either.

I just don't think that E is a good choice right now. The Prince told us to do him a favor. There isn't a big chance that we will find what we are looking for by just wandering around. While it is possible that we happen to stumble upon the correct thing right off the bat, it seems much more likely that we waste a lot of time before we get anywhere.

As for the unorthodoxy. I think we should at least get a base in an established, useful fighting style than trying to make one from scratch. Nothing is stopping us from trying to make new moves or trying out own thing later, but seeing as the Prince is telling us to infiltrate the pugilistic world to find information, it seems stupid to make the vast majority of our potential targets look down on us and not trust us from the get go. We are brash, but not stupid and loyal above all else. We have already done a really dumb thing in letting the Prince get hurt in our fight, so we should try to tow the line a bit and see if we can win back some favor and give him a reason to pardon us.

A few things to consider: I like B, but it's important to point out that the woman who wanted to attack the Prince was a practitioner of the unorthodox martial arts. I'm not saying that it will be easy, but finding the woman who tried to assassinate the Crown Prince is more likely if we hang around the underworld than we do among more respectable circles. As mentioned before, the Prince isn't mad at us - he trusts us as his most loyal agent, and he'll only be able to pardon us once he ascends to the throne.

Maybe this is my own personal martial arts training being baised, but something that comes to mind is that I believe that the various pugilistic sects have got it all wrong: every style has its own techniques, and they guard and hoard this knowledge amongst themselves instead of really creating something beautiful by sharing their techniques. While I like the principles and integrity behind the orthodox sects, this approach strikes me as narrow-minded and muddled in a lot of bullshit politicking. For example:

But be warned that this could reduce your reputation with the faction severely, depending on how much you learnt and what relationship you have with their leadership. They usually don't like it if people pop in just to learn their techniques and then scurry off after a year. Could mean you get labelled a technique thief and get a bounty put on your head.

I just don't understand this mentality. Knowledge is meant to be shared. If I wanted to become the greatest unarmed fighter of the pugilistic world, why wouldn't I combine skills from the Beggars, Wudang and the Shaolin to form something even greater than the sum of its parts? Same if I want to be a great swordsman.

I think we should take a few cues from one of history's great martial artists. This guy reminds me a bit of Xu Jing: incredibly athletic and strong, plus he had intelligence and an undeniable personal magnetism. Sadly, he suffered some tragic luck and his life was cut short:

"When one has reached maturity in the art, one will have a formless form. It is like ice dissolving in water. When one has no form, one can be all forms; when one has no style, he can fit in with any style.
...
Flow in the living moment. — We are always in a process of becoming and NOTHING is fixed. Have no rigid system in you, and you'll be flexible to change with the ever changing. OPEN yourself and flow, my friend. Flow in the TOTAL OPENNESS OF THE LIVING MOMENT. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo."
...
The Moment is freedom. — I couldn't live by a rigid schedule. I try to live freely from moment to moment, letting things happen and adjusting to them.

E

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

A question for treave, if you don't mind: how random is E going to be for us? The other four choices all have a weapon skill or two that is emphasized and a different discipline that is explicitly mentioned. For instance, I like B and C because they both train in swords, the skill that we all seem to like for our character. In E will there be any chance of us somehow choosing what we learn, or if we happen only to find the master of basket weaving and drunken archery along our travels that is what we have to settle for.

I ask because everyone is making this a choice between orthodox vs. unorthodox, and I was wondering if it would be that cut and dry. Is it also a choice of pick your discipline vs. what you happen to stumble across?

Again, don't answer if this is breaking the rules or ruining something coming up.

 

[Zero Credibility]

That's a really good question.

 

[Kipeci]

I just don't understand this mentality. Knowledge is meant to be shared. If I wanted to become the greatest unarmed fighter of the pugilistic world, why wouldn't I combine skills from the Beggars, Wudang and the Shaolin to form something even greater than the sum of its parts? Same if I want to be a great swordsman.

If you want to combine skills from sects, why not go orthodox and later fall out and strike out for the dark side later? We're going to be barred from orthodox techniques if we go with E, so if you're wanting some wide coverage it's better to join at the moment.

 

[Baltika9]

I just don't understand this mentality. Knowledge is meant to be shared. If I wanted to become the greatest unarmed fighter of the pugilistic world, why wouldn't I combine skills from the Beggars, Wudang and the Shaolin to form something even greater than the sum of its parts? Same if I want to be a great swordsman.

If you want to combine skills from sects, why not go orthodox and later fall out and strike out for the dark side later? We're going to be barred from orthodox techniques if we go with E, so if you're wanting some wide coverage it's better to join at the moment.

treave did say that we can always try to use the letter later and I see no reason why they wouldn't let us in, provided we play a stand-up guy and make some friends in their circles. Orthodoxes can go unorthodox and vice-versa.

 

[Tigranes]

treave also said how once you start using unorthodox abilities everyone can recognise that you have such an upbringing, which can lead to systematic ostracism from orthodox ways and teaching.

Which is why Kipeci is right, and which is why I keep insisting - it's easy to go orthodox first then go unorthodox. It's a lot harder the other way round. There's no need to rush this ronin business and dive headlong into some kind of Last Samurai style OH WE HATE ALL TRADITION WE ARE FREE AND WILD AND CAN DO ANYTHING puberty-high Jing.

 

[ScubaV]

Orthodoxes can go unorthodox and vice-versa.

No, I don't think so. Tigranes is right again and this is a significant disadvantage of E. Once we learn a sect's techniques we can always break bad when we're allowed to wander, albeit with a reputation hit. If we run around enough with unorthodox circles, at some point our reputation with the orthodox sects is going to hit a point of no-return. Treave stated that this is a generic recommendation letter. Do you really think the orthodox sects are going to value a generic letter over a reputation that is by definition more personalized? They won't risk a known unorthodox troublemaker coming in and being a bad influence on their current students.

Theoretically, yes we could start off with E and join a sect before our reputation gets too bad, but I sincerely doubt that will happen. The Codex is like a train, it doesn't change directions easily and our opportunities to switch back to an orthodox path will likely be rather limited. Thus, for someone like Esquilax, if the goal is to ACQUIRE ALL THE TECHNIQUES, then I really think you have to vote for us starting on an orthodox path and looking for opportunities to jump ship later.

 

[Nevill]

I am pretty sure that you won't be able to ACQUIRE ALL THE TECHNIQUES. If you go orthodox with one sect, other will deny you their knowledge. They are that petty.

I'm thinking that you are going to stuck with what you learn for quite a while. Might as well base your choice on your personal preferences, instead of powergaming.

 

[Tigranes]

Of course we won't acquire all the techniques and I don't think people are voting on powergaming. The point is that, factually speaking, going orthodox may be more restrictive in certain ways, but it is also more flexible in this particular way. So to set it up as a choice between "be free, learn lots of crap" and "be stuck with practicing one sword move for 4 years" is I think a bit inaccurate.

No doubt we would learn a more hodge-podge style with E so if we go with that I can roll with that. Long-term, though, I am more interested in having a character who can put up an orthodox veneer when necessary and I am also interested in treave taking us through a story that traverses both parts of the pugilistic world, which is why I am voting for non-E (and then, due to pure personal preference on techniques, B).

 

[Baltika9]

Orthodoxes can go unorthodox and vice-versa.

No, I don't think so. Tigranes is right again and this is a significant disadvantage of E. Once we learn a sect's techniques we can always break bad when we're allowed to wander, albeit with a reputation hit. If we run around enough with unorthodox circles, at some point our reputation with the orthodox sects is going to hit a point of no-return. Treave stated that this is a generic recommendation letter. Do you really think the orthodox sects are going to value a generic letter over a reputation that is by definition more personalized? They won't risk a known unorthodox troublemaker coming in and being a bad influence on their current students.

Theoretically, yes we could start off with E and join a sect before our reputation gets too bad, but I sincerely doubt that will happen. The Codex is like a train, it doesn't change directions easily and our opportunities to switch back to an orthodox path will likely be rather limited. Thus, for someone like Esquilax, if the goal is to ACQUIRE ALL THE TECHNIQUES, then I really think you have to vote for us starting on an orthodox path and looking for opportunities to jump ship later.

Actually, we can make friends with the orthodox people, even though it will be hard

I figure it will take a few chapters of non-stop do-gooding to demonstrate that you are a straightforward, upright fella. And no snarking to the orthodox sect people, always proper respect.

The stigma associated with being unorthodox will be that you won't make any good first impressions on orthodox sects. Your behaviour will generally be too carefree and chaotic for them to respect. Of course, you might build personal friendships by bailing their asses out, but all in all they won't treat you nicely.

It will be much harder to get an orthodox reputation if you don't join a sect and follow their rules. If you do, you can just coast on their reputation since, for example, when people see Wudang disciples, they expect them to be rather stand-up folks.

Again, we don't have to be a raging douchebag if we go E, we can be an swashbuckling, somewhat rogueish do-gooder. Our deeds are what'll matter. Also, don't neglect the power of personality and being a likeable fellow, if we impress someone well enough, they can offer us a way "in," a "second chance" if you will. E is by no means a dead end, though i think it is best if that were confirmed by treave.

Edit: and this "break away once you learned the techniques" plan is a bad one

But be warned that this could reduce your reputation with the faction severely, depending on how much you learnt and what relationship you have with their leadership. They usually don't like it if people pop in just to learn their techniques and then scurry off after a year. Could mean you get labelled a technique thief and get a bounty put on your head.

That's eeven worse than starting off unorthodox.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I just don't understand this mentality. Knowledge is meant to be shared. If I wanted to become the greatest unarmed fighter of the pugilistic world, why wouldn't I combine skills from the Beggars, Wudang and the Shaolin to form something even greater than the sum of its parts?

We live in the age of the internet now and most people have never worked to discover or develop any of the knowledge they have - they either buy it or learn it free, but imagine you spent your entire life developing a fighting technique. Would you want to just give it to passers by so they could run off and do who knows what with it? Also you might consider it analogous to military secrets. Do you think any military would want their strategies and technology in the hands of an enemy force?

I'm voting straight E because I don't want the Wudang crippling us in some way when we leave to try and insure we don't use their secrets against them. (As treave hinted could happen with some sects.)

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

I don't think they would cripple us for leaving. As treave said, if we stay for a relatively long period of time and become a favored senior student, we will be able to reasonably come and go as we please. There really wouldn't be a point to being a sect of martial artists if they crippled everyone who tried to walk away from the dojo to do something other than train. You are assuming that belonging to a sect or at least training with them would bring negative consequences, but I see that becoming favored in the sect could gain us some powerful friends like with the Ashina.

I think we are in a lot more danger of becoming a sub-optimal fighter if we try to do things on our own right now. There is no guarantee that we will be able to get to nearly as good a skill level wondering around than we could in the time it would take us to earn leave from the sect.

When we get a more firm foundation of skill under our belt, I am all for trying to experiment and make our own fighting style. Right now, however, I don't see us getting anywhere quickly going out on our own. This isn't some kids story, as far as I can tell, with a Gary Stu protagonist who cannot be beaten unless for narrative purposes and who will become an intergalactic master by training himself. We should get some training first, so that is why I like A-D. Like Tigranes, I chose C and B because I like swords as a weapon skill.

 

[Tigranes]

we can be an swashbuckling, somewhat rogueish do-gooder. Our deeds are what'll matter.

That's what happens in Hollywood films, not in a world where people really do take codes of honour seriously. Not every story favours Chaotic Good even if it's the default of our pop literature. Of course, given that treave is fully willing to go superanime, who knows what his characters will do with your Robin Hood... but as Kashmir Slippers points out, there's something to be said about getting some discipline, training, knowledge, and understanding of how the orthodox way works. I don't really want to turn this thread into some philosophical wankery but I just feel like the thrust of the discussion is basically "FREEEEDOM AND WACKY COOL FIGHTING, GO E"

But anyway, I feel like things have reached a sort of settling point. I don't know where the votes stand but perhaps treave will soon wrap things up?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

we can be an swashbuckling, somewhat rogueish do-gooder. Our deeds are what'll matter.

That's what happens in Hollywood films, not in a world where people really do take codes of honour seriously.

Very true. I'm voting E knowing that there will be consequences and that it will be a more difficult path. I just think it will make for a more interesting story as we'll be traveling around, learning from murderous swordsmen, lunatic kung fu masters, and general assholes - all the while building up a repertoire of the lowest, dirtiest fighting techniques and kicking many, many Naims in the balls for great justice.

 

[Nevill]

I just don't want to spend the next 5 years in a monastery.

I keep the tally here. Currently it is a tie.

 

[Baltika9]

we can be an swashbuckling, somewhat rogueish do-gooder. Our deeds are what'll matter.

That's what happens in Hollywood films, not in a world where people really do take codes of honour seriously. Not every story favours Chaotic Good even if it's the default of our pop literature. Of course, given that treave is fully willing to go superanime, who knows what his characters will do with your Robin Hood... but as Kashmir Slippers points out, there's something to be said about getting some discipline, training, knowledge, and understanding of how the orthodox way works. I don't really want to turn this thread into some philosophical wankery but I just feel like the thrust of the discussion is basically "FREEEEDOM AND WACKY COOL FIGHTING, GO E"

But anyway, I feel like things have reached a sort of settling point. I don't know where the votes stand but perhaps treave will soon wrap things up?

Oh please, like everyone in those orthodox sects follows their codes completely, we're bound to run into some mavericks. In fact, we may find defectors willing to teach us and I honestly think that E's potential isn't receiving it's due attention. Sure, we'll be weaker in a straight-up fight in the beginning, but we'll have the advantage in cunning and not being assigned a specific, rigid style.

 

[XenomorphII]

Still C if possible, if not anything but E.

 

[Absinthe]

Eh, I'll toss in an E vote.

The ultimate objective is to infiltrate the dark side of the pugilistic world. And the woman who was set on kidnapping the prince was most likely unorthodox. So I'd say it's better to actually try to enter that world. With his bad luck he will probably run into masters and "learn with his body" (ie. learn martial arts by having them inflicted on him), and this character has the stats to actually succeed.

Probably the painful route, but also the most practical. Also, he can probably join a school later anyway. (I'm pretty sure he will ace those requirements for the Beggars' Sect.) I'm not sure why they'd turn away a wandering martial artist with some talent, skills, and willingness to learn unless he actually does use poisons and crap. Entering this way is better than relying on the palace recommendation anyhow.

At any rate, putting distance between the character and the palace should be a priority if you want to infiltrate. I think it's pretty hilarious to try to be like "So bros, what are our plans for power against the palace?" when there's a letter and a history of the palace recommending you to the martial arts school. And while the letter leaves a traceable past, wuxialand is full of wandering martial artists with no apparent past of varying degrees of competence.