KickStarter Lords of Xulima

[Mychkine]

Which specificaly western elements do you have in mind, besides party creation, which exists in some JRPG (DQ IX comes in mind)?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I've played Xulima two years ago, during my daily commutes in train from home to work. These 45 min - 1h sessions were ideal to get the best out of this game : things are straightforward enough so that I could carry on without losing myself in the intricacies of a complicated plot (or design), and short sessions made me avoid fatigue from the (relative) genericness of setting and plot.

Gameplay, though was excellent and just challenging enough for my tastes.

What I'd like to add to the discussion is that I really don't think the game compares itself well to westen blobbers. Top-down perspective in exploration linked with a well-tuned turn based combat system is really incommon in western gaming. Yet, it is a really common JRPG thing. If one forgets that the writing and story don't overlap with modern JRPG themes, the gameplay itself is quite similar to Dragon Quest games for instance. And compares well with this gaming tradition. What do you think of it?

I think it honestly has more in common with Wizardry and dungeon-crawlers in that vein. Obviously it's not a first-person 'crawler, as it mixes a bunch of unique elements, but overall I get that sort of vibe from the game. It's just that the combat is presented in a typical Dragon Quest-style, that is the combat section *looks* like a JRPG design. It really doesn't have anything that is typical of JRPGs in the general generic sense of the JRPG label, i.e. Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. IMO, of course.

If you are saying JRPG and including the Elminage series and all the Wizardry-inspired JRPGs, then sure. It's a lot like Elminage Gothic in some ways (tough resource management, challenging encounters and overall design, total party creation with a focus on character development and party synergy, etc.).

 

[anvi]

There are lots of old RPG's that are way better than this. And also MMX and LoG1/2 are way better than this. For me it just needed better combat. I can play the same grindy stuff forever if the combat is fun. I played EverQuest for about 5 years and that has no story or quests, it was just the combat and the loot that kept me playing. But the classes are incredibly deep, you are talking about 100 spells on each class, vs this game where you have about 4...

Each class in LoX has about a million ways to build it, not even including spells. Since every skill point is important there are tons of ways you can build a character. Divine Summoner alone has what, 9 different possible summons? Each class has several weapon skills, support skills, attack skills and/or spells, some which overlap between classes, etc. Oversimplification is not presenting a very good argument against the game.

Even in that example you gave you are not considering that you are controlling 6 characters that can all be built differently. This in turn creates micro-customization (individual characters) to macro-customization (total party synergy). It gets pretty deep and complex, my brother. If you are saying otherwise I question if you've spent enough time with the game.

Nothing against MMX or LoG1/2, either. They seem like fine games. But LoX has this stuff to the utmost degree, IMO.

How are there a million ways? You can't make a wizzy tank or a rogue caster or anything interesting. There are just a few very basic stats and what you pick is mostly dictated by the position of the characters. All the front row guys need CON or evasion to survive or they get rekt. All the back row casters need mana or they can only cast a few spells, there isn't much to it...There are other games that really do let you build characters in many different ways, even Dragon Age Origins let you choose between potent spells with small mana pools, or vice versa, or a mixture of both, as well as defensive stuff. This game just has a mana pool and that's it.

Besides the stats there are only a small number of out of combat abilities and in combat abilities. Shit like lockpicking, trap spotting, item evaluation, etc, does nothing for the gameplay. I didn't have a Divine Summoner so that is no consolation, I had warrior, rogue, bard, cleric, sorc, and they all sucked. Also multiplying it by 6 is still no good, because 6x3 is still only 18. The fact is, you do 1000000 fights doing the exact same routine, and it isn't a fun, deep, tactical, or interesting routine. My sorc casts the same blizzard spell over and over on his turn. My rogue spams a basic attack on each turn. Warrior does his stunning attack on big enemies each turn. Galen had a poison attack which had the potential to be the only real tactical thing in my entire party, yet became worthless because everything died too fast to make it pay off anyway. My cleric just regenned people and then spammed mana recover. And my Bard cast 1 or 2 buffs in the entire fight and then shot arrows. Even Dragon Age Origins has deeper combat.

 

[an Administrator]

ITT people complain about story and plot in a blobber.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

How are there a million ways? You can't make a wizzy tank or a rogue caster or anything interesting. There are just some basic stats that every RPG has and what you pick is mostly dictated by the position of the characters. All the front row guys need CON or evasion to survive or they get rekt. All the back row casters need mana or they can only cast a few spells, there isn't much to it...

I am going to refrain from writing a thesis, but here's a very basic example of some of the choices you can ponder over.

Do I want my Cleric to be a Tank, Healer, DPS, Support character? Very basic start. Which weapon skills to use? Well, Maces & Hammers offer stunning attacks, so let's go with that. Okay, now I found a two-handed hammer. Hmm, it has a very negative attack rating (that is, it will miss more often) yet it has a very high damage and a great stun. Okay, what about a one-handed mace? Hmm, it has a decent stun and attack (although not as good as the two-handed hammer), yet it has a great attack rating so it will hit more often. And you can use a shield. Okay, so let's go with that. This has made the Cleric a Timely Stunner class (my own name), i.e. when you need a capable stun in a battle and it's the Cleric's turn, they will land a stun more often because of the Attack Rating boost.

Next, how can you supplement that build? Well, how about giving the Cleric Strength gear and stat points. This will make the one-handed mace do better damage in the long run, so you wouldn't be losing as much raw damage from the two-handed hammer build. Or, if we switch out to the two-handed hammer, maybe we can bolster the Cleric's Agility with Agility+ gear. This will help negate the negative Attack Rating so she hits more often, at the cost of losing the shield attributes and defense.

Okay, now that she has a weapon going, what about her skills? If you keep pumping points into Healing, it's going to cost more and more PP. There is an element of PP-to-cast ratio you have to pay attention to as you level up. If you level a spell too quickly, you will end up being able to cast it less. In other words, you should consider your total PP amount before blindly investing a spell to the highest level. That is another aspect to keep in mind.

Now, will we focus this Cleric on healing? Well, since I have a Divine Summoner who summons the healing/bleed-healing summon, I can focus my Cleric more on other things. Perhaps I can max out the Healing summon from the summoner and focus the Cleric on attacking and stunning. Strength and Agility instead of Energy. Again, the Divine Summoner must carefully decide which PP-to-cast ratio is best for the party as well. You don't want a summon you can't cast and then refresh once or twice. But perhaps you can invest heavily into the time extending skills for summons so you don't have to refresh as often. If you do that, you will have more free turns with your Divine Summoner, so you can give her some weapon skills, or utility scrolls to cast. Perhaps I can give the Cleric some of the Divine Armor spell so she can buff the frontline armor a bit when she's not attacking. You could easily create a tank/healer/dps/support out of this one class in many different ways, as well as outfit the gear to play to the playstyle you like.

Now to go even deeper, how do you spend your skill points? Some maces only cost a few points in the skill to wield, while more complex flails and weapons like that take much more investment in the skill. So you could plan this out as well. Perhaps you invest more in the mace skill to get access to better flails at first, or you invest in Armor and Con for the Cleric to allow her to be a Tank Cleric to absorb damage and protect whoever is behind her. Many different ways to play it.

Besides the stats there are only a small number of out of combat abilities and in combat abilities. Shit like lockpicking, trap spotting, item evaluation, etc, does nothing for the gameplay. I didn't have a Divine Summoner so that is no consolation, I had warrior, rogue, bard, cleric, sorc, and they all sucked. Also multiplying it by 6 is still no good. The fact is, you do 1000000 fights doing the exact same routine, and it isn't a fun, deep, tactical, or interesting routine. My sorc casts the same blizzard spell over and over on his turn. My rogue spams a basic attack on each turn. Warrior does his stunning attack on big enemies each turn. Galen had a poison attack which had the potential to be the only real tactical thing in my entire party, yet became worthless because everything died too fast to make it pay off anyway. My cleric just regenned people and then spammed mana recover. And my Bard cast 1 or 2 buffs in the entire fight and then shot arrows. Even Dragon Age Origins has deeper combat.

And you built this party exactly as you wanted to from the choices available. Again, there are many different ways to build. Also, how long did you play and on what difficulty? Spamming Blizzard for my Mage at any point in the game would be a terrible move for my party. Most of the battles I've been in have been ugly, as in difficult, and the long-term resource management aspects become very important.

I don't know what else to say, other than if anyone is interested in seeing what I'm talking about with this game, feel free to check out my LP on my channel showing the game on Hardcore Ironman. Also, feel free to take a peek at this guide that someone created. I'm not cosigning the guide in saying that you should use it, etc., just giving an example of how complex things are. You can decide for yourself if the game lacks depth.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/826283-lords-of-xulima/faqs/71877#section36

If you peek at my LP here and there you will often see excellent turn-based combat. Often very deadly and often requiring a lot of thought, pondering over turns and a bit of luck of the dice roll as well. If you watch for longer periods you wlll see a ton of long-term difficulty as well, as in managing the food reserves, the limited gold and basically doing my best to stay alive when the game is brutally trying to kill me. And that's long-term, as in macro-management (which is another area the game greatly excels. The micro-management of combat to combat is important and challenging, too, but the long-term resource management is boss level). Don't believe me, just watch some of the videos as I upload them.

 

[V_K]

Which specificaly western elements do you have in mind, besides party creation, which exists in some JRPG (DQ IX comes in mind)?

To me the whole character system of LoX feels more Western than Japanese. It is a very common WRPG standard: rasable stats, derived stats and raisable skills. The JRPGs I've played (which are admittedly not many) usually employ simpler and more straightforward systems, without derived stats (i.e. combat formulas are directly based on primary stats) or raisable skills.
I might be wrong on that, but IIRC equipment in LoX isn't class-restricted, but has stat requirements. JRPGs usually have it the other way around. The whole equipment system, with randombly generated items and weight limit to the inventory also seems more characteristic of WRPGs.
Finally, I don't think I've ever played a JRPG with a food mechanic (i.e. where it was a requirement rather than a healing item).
Of course for every WRPG trait there would be some JRPGs that have it (and vice versa), but still they're much less common.

 

[ProphetSword]

Ok, but let me address the criticisms you made.
The items need work, I agree. There are interesting non-equipment items, though.

Glad we agree on something.

There are plenty of side missions. How long did you play for? Each town has several Job Board quests, from finding special items to bounties and other missions, as well as stumbling upon puzzles and various things while exploring.

Around 18 hours, which I think is long enough to get an idea of how the game plays. By side missions, I really meant more like sub-plots or something that isn't just a "kill something" quest. It's possible I just missed them.

Story isn't compelling. Mmk. It's not really a story RPG, so this is your personal preference for what you want in RPGs. Fine. I doubt you would like Wizardry or Elminage Gothic, either.

All RPGs have a story of some kind, even if it's as simple as finding an amulet at the bottom of a randomly generated dungeon. Unlike Wizardry, this game has cutscenes and a plot (as well as a "chosen one" predetermined character), so I think critique of the story, how motivating it is or isn't and how well it's told are all valid in this context. If this game was meant to be like a standard story-lite blobber where the plot is a little less obvious and only exists as a motivation to kill monsters, then perhaps they should have dispensed with the forced dialogues and chapter headings. In the end, the story is dull and doesn't do well to motivate the player onward.

You can die plenty. Are you playing on Hardcore difficulty? I have party wiped several times in boss battles. The resting mechanic is balanced and based on resources, i.e. expensive food that you have to manage accordingly. It's not so much a party wipe game, it's an, "Oh, shit. I'm stuck in a dungeon low on food and half my party is dead. Let me think of a really clever way to get through this." type game. I.e. heavy resource management and long-term party health (managing Curses, Sicknesses, etc., over the course of the game is actually meaningful and impacting as well).

Didn't say you couldn't die. I said that characters could heal from mortal and deadly wounds with 24 hours of rest, which isn't a mechanic I particularly like. I guess I wanted something more challenging, like needing to go back to town to heal.

Not a lot of tactical depth? That is just wrong, IMO. How long have you played for again? There is plenty of tactical depth overall. Maybe you should watch my current Hardcore Ironman LP and see for yourself. Some of the battles I get into are insane. Like the craziest battles I've ever had in a turn-based RPG insane. There is loads of depth there.

I don't agree with your opinion on that. We'll just agree to disagree, as the old saying goes. After a while, I found the combat to be shallow and empty.

But alright, personal preference is personal preference at the end of the day. Just make sure the other criticisms are accurate.

Except for the side-missions that I didn't find in my playthrough, I'd say they are accurate.

 

[anvi]

I just watched your lets play, we have completely different ideas on gaming...

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Glad we agree on something.

I think the game would benefit a lot by a few named items, as I've said. I prefer the low-fantasy appeal of the items, but a rare Legendary item here or there wouldn't hurt.

Around 18 hours, which I think is long enough to get an idea of how the game plays. By side missions, I really meant more like sub-plots or something that isn't just a "kill something" quest. It's possible I just missed them.

There are, but also I'd like to point out that 18 hours is less than 1/5th of the game. So in a typical, smaller RPG, 18 hours may be enough, but in an RPG this size you're not going to see everything the game has to offer in less than 1/5th of the total time it takes to finish the game.

All RPGs have a story of some kind, even if it's as simple as finding an amulet at the bottom of a randomly generated dungeon. Unlike Wizardry, this game has cutscenes and a plot (as well as a "chosen one" predetermined character), so I think critique of the story, how motivating it is or isn't and how well it's told are all valid in this context. If this game was meant to be like a standard story-lite blobber where the plot is a little less obvious and only exists as a motivation to kill monsters, then perhaps they should have dispensed with the forced dialogues and chapter headings. In the end, the story is dull and doesn't do well to motivate the player onward.

It's really no different than Wizardry, other than a few "cutscenes". The basic stuff that is there, dialogue, NPCs, etc., is not really that important and the game is much more about gameplay first, second and third. They could improve this for the sequel, though.

Didn't say you couldn't die. I said that characters could heal from mortal and deadly wounds with 24 hours of rest, which isn't a mechanic I particularly like. I guess I wanted something more challenging, like needing to go back to town to heal.

The mechanic is meant to have you balance resources strategically, in this case Food (which you need to rest) and Gold (which buys food and other supplies). It means you have to manage your food consumption in a trip and balance how much gold you spend doing so. It also has reaching long-term affects.

I don't agree with your opinion on that. We'll just agree to disagree, as the old saying goes. After a while, I found the combat to be shallow and empty.

I'm not sure how, but okay. Again, maybe it's that you just played 18 hours, but combat has been far from shallow in my Hardcore Ironman run. It's pretty much the defintiion of "the thinking game" for turn-based RPGs.

Except for the side-missions that I didn't find in my playthrough, I'd say they are accurate.

Other than that, yes.

I just watched your lets play, we have completely different ideas on gaming...

Impossible. I have 15 episodes that are each over an hour long. No way you watched that in a few minutes since you've last posted. :D

Different ideas on gaming? How so? I am playing LoX essentially as a challenge RPG. The views in my videos and this thread do not represent all of my RPG ideas, either, they are just simply the reasons I find LoX very fascinating and executed incredibly well.

 

[Dorateen]

some predetermined jackass is the lead

As an outspoken member of the anti-Gaulen coalition, I heartily approve this description.

It's clear to me the reason the developers used this method of design was because they were making the map navigation in isometric view, and they did not have the resources to provide different character models for all the possibilities available to the player. So they created this one identifiable Explorer, and then constructed the game around that concept.

I think the developers have their heart in the right place going forward if they can drop the idea of a lead character in the sequel. Maybe go full first person perspective for exploration. And add races as part of character generation.

 

[ProphetSword]

There are, but also I'd like to point out that 18 hours is less than 1/5th of the game. So in a typical, smaller RPG, 18 hours may be enough, but in an RPG this size you're not going to see everything the game has to offer in less than 1/5th of the total time it takes to finish the game.

Based upon this recommendation, I may continue to push further into the game to see if it improves. I haven't deleted it from my hard drive yet, so I am capable of returning to it. At 18 hours, I figured I had seen most of what the game had to offer. Given the cries of people telling me to forge ahead, I guess I can wait to see if it gets better.

I will let you all know whether I'm wrong or you're wrong. Honestly, I hope I'm wrong...because I had amazingly high hopes for this game anyway, which is why I bought it.

 

[anvi]

I just watched your lets play, we have completely different ideas on gaming...

Impossible. I have 15 episodes that are each over an hour long. No way you watched that in a few minutes since you've last posted. :D

Different ideas on gaming? How so? I am playing LoX essentially as a challenge RPG. The views in my videos and this thread do not represent all of my RPG ideas, either, they are just simply the reasons I find LoX very fascinating and executed incredibly well.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Well there were only 15 and it only went up to level 8 or something, I was way beyond there in my play through. But I skipped through the last few videos to see some battles and it was so boring. I don't know where you think all the strategy and depth is coming from but I just don't see it. Each character only has a few options and it isn't even very important what you do. It is too easy, and too simple, and way too boring. I think you should play something like Blackguards and see real depth. Most of the time in LUX you are fighting just a few enemies so who cares if you use a bad strategy and one takes longer to kill, it really doesn't matter. In Blackguards when you are fighting 20 enemies, you really need to make sure you look at them all and work out which one to kill first, because if you leave the wrong guy alive, it is a total wipe. You also have far more stuff to cast and abilities to use, and all the positional possibilities. It isn't the deepest game but it makes LuX look like childsplay.

Also the bit where you died to traps was cringy. You set characters to walk, and click a million times slowly so the character inches forward through a corridor, the space of about 10 paces takes ages, and yet you still end up getting half you guys 1 shotted by a trap. You look at your herbs and decide it is just better to reload. That kind of thing is clearly bad gameplay. There is no two ways about it. Players should never wipe from an invisible trap that there is no way to avoid. Again, Blackguards has loads of traps, but the 'sense trap' mechanic actually works unlike LuX, and if you don't have a character with that, you can still survive. Traps are dangerous but they don't 1 shot you so you can recover if you act fast enough.

I am happy for you that you like it though. I just think it is bad. I think every other blobber I have played was better than it. Not just Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2 and MMX, but even stuff from 20+ years ago. Also I think other modern indie stuff like Blackguards and Aarklash Legacy do a much better job of providing a strategy fix. I even the newer Xcom games are better.

 

[anvi]

Impossible. I have 15 episodes that are each over an hour long. No way you watched that in a few minutes since you've last posted. :D

Different ideas on gaming? How so? I am playing LoX essentially as a challenge RPG. The views in my videos and this thread do not represent all of my RPG ideas, either, they are just simply the reasons I find LoX very fascinating and executed incredibly well.

Well there were only 15 and it only went up to level 8 or something, I was way beyond there in my play through. But I skipped through the last few videos to see some battles and it was so boring. I don't know where you think all the strategy and depth is coming from but I just don't see it. Each character only has a few options and it isn't even very important what you do. It is too easy, and too simple, and way too boring. I think you should play something like Blackguards and see real depth. Most of the time in LoX you are fighting just a few enemies so who cares if you use a bad strategy and one takes longer to kill, it really doesn't matter. In Blackguards when you are fighting 20 enemies, you really need to make sure you look at them all and work out which one to kill first, because if you leave the wrong guy alive, it is a total wipe. You also have far more stuff to cast and abilities to use, and all the positional possibilities. It isn't the deepest game but it makes LoX look like childsplay.

Also the bit where you died to traps was cringy. You set characters to walk, and click a million times slowly so the character inches forward through a corridor, the space of about 10 paces takes ages, and yet you still end up getting half you guys 1 shotted by a trap. You look at your herbs and decide it is just better to reload. That kind of thing is clearly bad gameplay. There is no two ways about it. Players should never wipe from an invisible trap that there is no way to avoid. Again, Blackguards has loads of traps, but the 'sense trap' mechanic actually works unlike LoX, and if you don't have a character with that, you can still survive. Traps are dangerous but they don't 1 shot you so you can recover if you act fast enough.

I am happy for you that you like it though. I just think it is bad. I think every other blobber I have played was better than it. Not just Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2 and MMX, but even stuff from 20+ years ago. Also I think other modern indie stuff like Blackguards and Aarklash Legacy do a much better job of providing a strategy fix. I would even rather play the newer Xcom games than more of this.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

As an outspoken member of the anti-Gaulen coalition, I heartily approve this description.

It's clear to me the reason the developers used this method of design was because they were making the map navigation in isometric view, and they did not have the resources to provide different character models for all the possibilities available to the player. So they created this one identifiable Explorer, and then constructed the game around that concept.

I think the developers have their heart in the right place going forward if they can drop the idea of a lead character in the sequel. Maybe go full first person perspective for exploration. And add races as part of character generation.

I actually don't mind Gaulen and here's why. Having a set class for the lead character is not a bad idea. Explorer class is important in the game, is very flexible and has a lot of different skills you can invest in. I think if they add things like herbs, movement on terrain, etc., and balance the game so it is not just an added nuisance that has no real consequence, then if they didn't include Gaulen by default you may have missed out on those skills.

In other words, the game can be balanced and more challenging if they make you keep Gaulen as an Explorer class. It works pretty well on Hardcore Ironman where you need things like herbs and better movement bonuses because food gets so expensive.

Based upon this recommendation, I may continue to push further into the game to see if it improves. I haven't deleted it from my hard drive yet, so I am capable of returning to it. At 18 hours, I figured I had seen most of what the game had to offer. Given the cries of people telling me to forge ahead, I guess I can wait to see if it gets better.

I will let you all know whether I'm wrong or you're wrong. Honestly, I hope I'm wrong...because I had amazingly high hopes for this game anyway, which is why I bought it.

I think it improves greatly. There are new challenges all the time, but it's a slow game. They slowly introduce new enemy types, encounters, etc. For example, in the first 18 hours of the game, Wounds are not a big deal. Well, get a bit further and you'll see why they are in the game.

Well there were only 15 and it only went up to level 8 or something, I was way beyond there in my play through. But I skipped through the last few videos to see some battles and it was so boring. I don't know where you think all the strategy and depth is coming from but I just don't see it. Each character only has a few options and it isn't even very important what you do. It is too easy, and too simple, and way too boring. I think you should play something like Blackguards and see real depth. Most of the time in LoX you are fighting just a few enemies so who cares if you use a bad strategy and one takes longer to kill, it really doesn't matter. In Blackguards when you are fighting 20 enemies, you really need to make sure you look at them all and work out which one to kill first, because if you leave the wrong guy alive, it is a total wipe. You also have far more stuff to cast and abilities to use, and all the positional possibilities. It isn't the deepest game but it makes LoX look like childsplay.

Also the bit where you died to traps was cringy. You set characters to walk, and click a million times slowly so the character inches forward through a corridor, the space of about 10 paces takes ages, and yet you still end up getting half you guys 1 shotted by a trap. You look at your herbs and decide it is just better to reload. That kind of thing is clearly bad gameplay. There is no two ways about it. Players should never wipe from an invisible trap that there is no way to avoid. Again, Blackguards has loads of traps, but the 'sense trap' mechanic actually works unlike LoX, and if you don't have a character with that, you can still survive. Traps are dangerous but they don't 1 shot you so you can recover if you act fast enough.

I am happy for you that you like it though. I just think it is bad. I think every other blobber I have played was better than it. Not just Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2 and MMX, but even stuff from 20+ years ago. Also I think other modern indie stuff like Blackguards and Aarklash Legacy do a much better job of providing a strategy fix. I would even rather play the newer Xcom games than more of this.

I'm saying you're wrong about that first paragraph, though. Killing things quicker using less resources is HUGELY important in the game. If you watch more of the videos you'll see why. This is not an RPG where you hoard 50 potions and scrolls of each kind and never use them. I am now at parts where you have to carefully decide on which scrolls and potions to buy to survive the encounters yet still have enough money left for food in the long run. Resource management is very tightly done in the game. And you may not get a total party wipe but it will eff up your plans majorly when you have to spend another 24 hours of food because you were dumb in combat and got someone killed. Or you didn't kill the Cursed Hounds quick enough and now 3 of your characters are Cursed.

Yes, the traps sensor thing is odd. I'm not quite sure how it works to be honest, and I hit traps all the time. But usually they aren't one-hit kills except for a very rare few. The thing is, like everything else in the game, traps are not level-scaled, so their difficulty will be whatever it is meant to be. Nothing cringy about dying on a trap, that's what they are there for. Perhaps I didn't have a character with Perception high enough, and/or I don't know the system well. If you want traps to be completely pointless and just "skill fodder" with no consequence, I don't agree with that. If a trap doesn't kill you in LoX (which is usually), you will have to rest because all your characters are injured. I also think the lockpicking and especially trap disarming mini-games in the game are fantastic. The trap disarming feels like you're really disarming a bomb or something, lol.

Even if you don't care for the game all that much, it is far, FAR from bad in any which way, shape or form. Play for a long time and study it. You will be saying, "Huh, that is really clever how they implemented that", to yourself all the time.

 

[anvi]

I'm saying you're wrong about that first paragraph, though. Killing things quicker using less resources is HUGELY important in the game.

Why? There is unlimited food and money so you can just rest.

This is not an RPG where you hoard 50 potions and scrolls of each kind and never use them.

It is on normal difficulty. I play all games on the same difficulty and they are balanced well for that, but this game is way too easy and simple. The higher difficulty levels are no good because they don't make it any deeper, they just make it more tedious.

Yes, the traps sensor thing is odd. I'm not quite sure how it works to be honest, and I hit traps all the time.

The skill is just a chance to spot traps, and getting that skill high on one character doesn't make them good at spotting them. So it is better to have a low skill on all your characters and then someone will always spot a trap.

If you want traps to be completely pointless and just "skill fodder" with no consequence, I don't agree with that.

It does have to be pointless traps or 1 shot half your party. There is plenty of sensible room in the middle and most games achieve that. This doesn't.

Even if you don't care for the game all that much, it is far, FAR from bad in any which way, shape or form. Play for a long time and study it. You will be saying, "Huh, that is really clever how they implemented that", to yourself all the time.

I did play it a long time and studied it, and I think it sucks. Sorry. Play LoG 1 and 2, MMX, and the older M&M games, and Blackguards etc, see what you think about LuX then.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Why? There is unlimited food and money so you can just rest.

No there's not, lol. I micromanage the food hardcore, i.e. I harvest that dang field every 2 days, and I still have to buy plenty of food. I even return later when I'm in other areas of the game to harvest that field, still not safe with food. Play the game on Hardcore Ironman and you'll see.

It is on normal difficulty. I play all games on the same difficulty and they are balanced well for that, but this game is way too easy and simple. The higher difficulty levels are no good because they don't make it any deeper, they just make it more tedious.

And you know this how? You just said you played Normal difficulty. Are you not an Old-School Veteran? If you're not Hardcore I would imagine you're here on the Codex so you should have started with the middle difficulty. That's why it's called Old-School Veteran.

And anyone who's been playing RPGs a lot will not be challenged by Normal difficulty in pretty much any RPG anymore. Pillars of Eternity has Path of the Damned, even Skyrim has Master difficulty. No sense playing on Easy Mode and then complaining that the game is too easy, and then saying that harder difficulties are just more tedious when you haven't even played them.

The skill is just a chance to spot traps, and getting that skill high on one character doesn't make them good at spotting them. So it is better to have a low skill on all your characters and then someone will always spot a trap.

No, that's not how it works. It is a dice roll at any level, but the higher Perception gives you improved odds. It's not Easy Mode.

It does have to be pointless traps or 1 shot half your party. There is plenty of sensible room in the middle and most games achieve that. This doesn't.

Again, you're wrong. I have been 1-shotted by traps less than 5 times in many more hours of the game that are currently on YouTube. Usually my party survives the whole trap, or at worst my weakest party member with the lowest HP dies, and the rest survive. Therefore I have to use 24 hours of food in a bad spot to bring that character back to life. This then plays into the long-term survival aspects of the game with tough resource management. That is a great mechanic and executed well to create an interesting and long-term synergy effect.

I did play it a long time and studied it, and I think it sucks. Sorry.

Then I'd suggest going back and studying it again. You clearly missed things. No offense, but a game like this needs a deep investment to really understand the things it does well. And those things it does *very* well. It's just subtle and not all in your face like many other games. S-u-b-t-l-e. But that doesn't mean the game isn't changed significantly by these subtle things, it just means they aren't going to have the "Wow Factor" at surface view. You have to dig deeper.

And I can dig it if this isn't your type of RPG. It's a hardcore gameplay-focused RPG, which isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. But saying this sucks or this doesn't work, etc., isn't really giving an accurate take on the game.

 

[anvi]

And I can dig it if this isn't your type of RPG.

That's the thing, it is my type of RPG. Yet I hate it. That's how bad it is. I can't list all the things that suck about it and why they suck because it would be the entire game. Everything about it is bad and done better in other games. You should go get MMX right now.

 

[an Administrator]

Lords of Xulima has an strange emphasis on story. Things shouldn't be like this in a blobber. It was just a waste of time and resources.

Seriously, what was the point in making it top-down instead of first-person? With slow walking speed that even makes Underrail's PC look like Usain Bolt.(And you can't run because it drains your resources fast)

 

[V_K]

Lords of Xulima has an strange emphasis on story. Things shouldn't be like this in a blobber. It was just a waste of time and resources.

I don't think a few cutscenes here and there count as an emphasis on story. It has about as much plot as e.g. MM6 or Wiz8.

Seriously, what was the point in making it top-down instead of first-person?

It's probably cheaper than 3D of comparable quality. Just look at how much worse MMX looks, despite probably having a much larger budget.

And you can't run because it drains your resources fast

It doesn't if you invest in relevant skills.

 

[ProphetSword]

I will let you all know whether I'm wrong or you're wrong.

Replying to my own words just so I can say that I am not wrong. This game sucks. Gave it a few more hours today. I still don't get it. I was bored stiff. None of my opinions have changed at all, so I guess it just must be a matter of personal tastes.

I'm glad someone is enjoying it. Every game should have fans. I, personally, won't be investing any more time or money on this game or its sequels.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Well, to be quite honest it's upsetting to hear that this is supposed to be some of your guys' type of game yet you hate it. Not exactly inspiring for devs who might want to make a game like this in the future.

I stand by my assessment 100%. 200%. 1000% even. I'm 60 hours deep and having a blast. If the game falls apart after this amount of hours I'll post and tell you all. But so far the game has been tight and much more hardcore than other RPGs released recently, and that is refreshing to me.

I don't mean this as a diss to anyone here but I feel like some of the mechanics and style of this game can go over people's heads. ProphetSword, you said "You still don't get it". And I can understand why. It's a tough nut to crack as it's meant to be played for 100+ hours, it has a very slow progression, a lot of slow elements, heavy focus on resource management and long-term survival w/ survival elements, etc. It's not flashy, it's not fast, it's a slow, super old-school-style RPG. It is laying the foundation for an absolute monster of a hardcore RPG series akin to Wizardry except in a huge (very huge, the map of LoX is incredible) "linear open-world". The game continues to introduce new elements around every corner but you have to still be in the game at 60 hours to see them. Every dungeon is different. Every map has its own quirks and things to find and see. Even terrain types are different and have to be accounted for (desert drains food majorly, muddy swamps have mud you can get stuck in and poisonous snakes that can mess up your party outside of combat, etc.). You have to play for a long time to see this all and appreciate what they've done here. Frankly we should all be cheering them on something FIERCE, IMO.

And food doesn't drain faster if you run. It drains relative to the speed you are moving. You have to manage your movement as well in the game as it is a resource to be planned for, i.e. running in circles is a bad idea. You have to think a bit and plan, just like for many other things in the game. If you invest in certain skills your movement uses less food.

 

[T. Reich]

LoX gets REALLY repetitive closer to the endgame, after you beat all the brothers.

At this point, enemy life bloat seriously kicks in, and you are mostly fighting large groups of enemies as well. If you build your party well, it's actually not difficult at all, even easier than early or midgame, but those encounters take more time to do, so it can get boring fast.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

LoX gets REALLY repetitive closer to the endgame, after you beat all the brothers.

At this point, enemy life bloat seriously kicks in, and you are mostly fighting large groups of enemies as well. If you build your party well, it's actually not difficult at all, even easier than early or midgame, but those encounters take more time to do, so it can get boring fast.

Thanks for the comment. I have a few questions. Did you play on Hardcore Ironman? Also, was this your first run with the game without a guide or without generally knowing what you were doing beforehand?

If the game does in fact slow down there, that is a bummer. However, I'm 60+ hours deep and haven't even seen the 3rd bro yet. The combat is still challenging, the resource management is still tight and the exploration is getting even better as they continue to introduce new elements (I'm exploring Rasmura/Devonia now).

At about 56 hours or so I did notice I suddenly had huge amounts of gold and overall resources after clearing some quests in Varaskel. However, this has happened at earlier parts in the game, i.e. it seems like the game gives you a bunch of gold when you finish the quests in the area, but then it gets relatively scarce after that. So, if you get a bit overconfident and don't spend that gold wisely, you're going to be in a hard place again in a bit when that gold inevitably runs dry. Once you reach the next town/area and finish a few quests it's the same deal. At least that's been my experience so far.

 

[T. Reich]

I played on veteran. I dislike going for the HARDEST challenge in games, but I don't like playing on ez-mode either.
I did my run with the game after carefully studying the game's manual (as the devs themselves strongly recommended), plus a few general tips from here and there to avoid noob-traps and/or poorly balanced shit choices.

I think I've spent approx 100 hours for a full playthrough, and I cleared almost every location completely.

I've been mostly spending the extra gold on the +1 skill point thing at trainer. I averaged out somewhere around 1.5x of those per party average level.
I consider it a money well-spent because with all those skills that need pumping, 4 skills per level-up is nothing. Those 1-2 extra skills per level-up REALLY helped to have a balanced party.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Good stuff, T. Reich!

Since you spent that much time with the game, you may want to eventually revisit on either Hardcore Ironman or even Celerity's Deepest Dark mod.

I spent a bit of gold on training as well, although I have to balance that throughout the LP so far. After reporting having a bunch of gold I already spent a big chunk of it, and now find out that I have to kill 2 more of these tough enemies for a quest. The enemies are tough and require expensive items to fight, so the gold is dwindling a bit. The supplemental/support Explorer skills help a lot, though. I am focusing Gaulen on non-combat skills + being a damage absorbing tank and it's paid off so far.