KickStarter Lords of Xulima

[anvi]

It sucks. I got to about level 17 or something and then just had no motivation to keep going with the same repetitive bullshit. I enjoy lots of games that are repetitive but there is something about them that keeps them fun for me. This game has 0 of that.

 

[ProphetSword]

I think the biggest issues I'm having with the game involve missing key elements that I like in a lot of other CRPGs.

The items aren't interesting, there are no side-missions, the story isn't compelling, and for most of the game I've felt more like someone who is watching the plot happen versus having any kind of involvement in what's going on. Up to this point, nothing I've done matters in any way to the plot; because, some predetermined jackass is the lead while my own heroes are just torch-bearing lackeys there to make sure he doesn't die. Not that you can really die anyway, since all it takes is a day of rest to recover from the most deadly mortal wounds.

The battles are fun for a while, but that wears off since there's not a lot of tactical depth there. Once you realize that, the whole thing just falls apart. I guess some people get something out of this game that I'm not getting. Personally, I'd rather play something like Pool of Radiance for the 85th time than waste another minute in this game. So much for high hopes.

 

[iZerw]

I for one had a blast till the end through I made a break before the endgame (78 hours total). Yes it's kind of repetitive not so tactical but this sort of games relax me after work. Still it's one of the best of kickstarters for me not such as W2 or POE, that's what I call failed expectations. And loX is the first game of a small indie studio, I do believe they'll do better with the next installment of the series.

 

[V_K]

there are no side-missions

That's just not true, there's ton of side content, both explicit quests (the trainer dude in each town has a few of them, certain other NPCs too) and things that you uncover on your own.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

This game is excellent. I could write a thesis on why. If anyone's interested in what I think this game does extremely well let me know and I'll write it in my next post. I'm also doing a Hardcore Ironman "blind" LP on YouTube for it. Go look at that as I also occasionally discuss the design in the videos themselves.

 

[Haplo]

I've found it bland TBH. Like anvi, I've quite around level 17 or so. Just started the snow village areas. Repetetive. And despite gaining so many levels, I've never felt like my characters made any significant progression. I think that's the biggest issue for me. The skills were samey and bland, never really made a difference in combat. Okay, so Blizzard was good for some encounters, but other then that, meh.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Skills never made a difference? Maybe on Normal difficulty. Try playing Hardcore Ironman. The progression will be felt thick. Every skill is important, every item and scroll is an important decision to make. The game is also 100+ hours so it's balanced as such. If you only play 20 hours or whatever you're not getting the full experience.

As for being repetitive, it's not at all. It's just subtle, not all in your face. A simple thing like adding a second enemy of the same type to the encounter makes it different. Or an encounter that suddenly adds an Ice Archer to the back line. Simple things like this make encounters different. Not to mention the farther you get the more types of enemies get introduced that can mess you up in various ways.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

The combat in this game is OK (by modern standards at least). The problem is that the rest is pretty bad and the whole non-combat gameplay amounts to pretty much a pointless time-waster.

Of course the combat could be the game's saving grace, but two important things connected to it - character development and itemization drag it down a good bit, with the former being very mediocre and the latter horribly bad.

 

[Haplo]

I don't play Ironman. Don't have enough time or patience to repeat games.

I think I might have played Hard. Resource management was very tight, much tighter then I'm used to.
And I didn't say the skills weren't needed... only that they were samey and not interesting. I've always described them as "overbalanced".

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

The combat in this game is OK (by modern standards at least). The problem is that the rest is pretty bad and the whole non-combat gameplay amounts to pretty much a pointless time-waster.

Of course the combat could be the game's saving grace, but two important things connected to it - character development and itemization drag it down a good bit, with the former being very mediocre and the latter horribly bad.

I disagree. Character development is excellent, as good as it gets for a turn-based RPG of this sort. Itemization is not the strongest aspect, I agree, but it's definitely not horribly bad, either. It could benefit from more unique weapons and armor, i.e. things with unique names and attributes. The Big Bleeder (an enchanted Claymore with extra bleeding damage), etc.

Non-combat gameplay has huge open-map exploration in a very large "linear open-world". There are several types of dungeons each with their own unique quirks and challenges, etc. Puzzles, heavy resource management, locks, traps, hidden loot caches to find, etc.. It has plenty of non-combat stuff.

I don't play Ironman. Don't have enough time or patience to repeat games.

I think I might have played Hard. Resource management was very tight, much tighter then I'm used to.
And I didn't say the skills weren't needed... only that they were samey and not interesting. I've always described them as "overbalanced".

Resource management is very tight on Hardcore Ironman. I disagree that the skills are samey and not interesting. What does that even mean? The idea is to develop the skills to create a synergy with your other party members. There are a bunch of skills you can choose to focus on, and for the most part each class will have many unique skills that aren't samey in the least.

 

[Cadmus]

Fluent....
Adding a second enemy is subtle? Of course it fucking is repetitive. I liked the game very much but it does get tedious.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Fluent....
Adding a second enemy is subtle? Of course it fucking is repetitive. I liked the game very much but it does get tedious.

I'm saying that adding a second enemy changes the encounter. It seems simple and it is subtle but it makes the encounter much different. It's the same way Wizardry does it.

That is not repetitive. Repetitive is fighting the same encounters with the same challenges over and over. The encounters in LoX are always different and present a new twist.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Subtlety is king in Xulima. You may think on paper that adding a single Ice Archer to a battle isn't a big deal, but in Xulima it is. So, let's imagine that there are 2 Weapon Masters in front of the archer. The encounter is usually just those 2 Weapon Masters, but now they added an Ice Archer. This changes things a lot more than you'd think.

The Ice Archer is freezing your party members, making them lose turns. Also, he's fast and has high initiative, so he attacks often, thus freezing often. Second, he's in the backline and being protected by the Weapon Master in his row. So you have many choices to make. Does your party have spells/attacks that can hit backline enemies? Did you develop your characters with this in mind? Are you carrying the right scrolls? Maybe you can stun the archer until you kill the Weapon Master. Meanwhile the Weapon Masters are making you bleed, which stacks, and if you are losing turns from being frozen that means you are bleeding on those turns as well. That's not even mentioning the Weapon Masters basic attacks that do a lot of damage, too. You can try and focus on the Ice Archer to kill it quickly, but meanwhile the Weapon Masters are beating on you. In the encounter without the Ice Archer you'd have one Weapon Master close to dead already. So the whole thing can turn into a huge mess all of a sudden. When the encounter simply adds an enemy that has a unique trait and unique elements to consider, it changes things considerably.

 

[V_K]

The combat in this game is OK (by modern standards at least). The problem is that the rest is pretty bad and the whole non-combat gameplay amounts to pretty much a pointless time-waster.

Funny, I had the exact opposite experience. Combat got a bit too HP-spongy by the second half, but the level design, exploration and puzzles remained strong throughout.

I've found it bland TBH. Like anvi, I've quite around level 17 or so. Just started the snow village areas. Repetetive. And despite gaining so many levels, I've never felt like my characters made any significant progression.

Level 17 isn't even a third of the game. End-game characters are usually around level 50.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

That's entirely possible, I gave the game two tries, but dropped it rather quickly on both.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Celerity marking my posts as incline gives me hope. Thank you, sir.

 

[Haplo]

I've found it bland TBH. Like anvi, I've quite around level 17 or so. Just started the snow village areas. Repetetive. And despite gaining so many levels, I've never felt like my characters made any significant progression.

Level 17 isn't even a third of the game. End-game characters are usually around level 50.

Yeah, I realize. But it still felt like eternity to reach it.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

An eternity? I play 30 hours of an RPG before I even start getting warmed up!

Crazy to think the sequel is going to be even more ambitious. More classes, branching/different endings (including what I am most excited about - a very hard to get ending designed for the most hardcore players that will take 100+ hours to get), etc. They are going to add somewhat randomized NPCs and traps to the game, so a second playthrough will be different (even though I think there is plenty of reason to play again, since the 9 classes in the first game can be created in a billion different ways and configurations, but more reason to replay the game is not a bad thing).

 

[anvi]

There are lots of old RPG's that are way better than this. And also MMX and LoG1/2 are way better than this. For me it just needed better combat. I can play the same grindy stuff forever if the combat is fun. I played EverQuest for about 5 years and that has no story or quests, it was just the combat and the loot that kept me playing. But the classes are incredibly deep, you are talking about 100 spells on each class, vs this game where you have about 4...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Game has barbarians, so can't be all bad.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

There are lots of old RPG's that are way better than this. And also MMX and LoG1/2 are way better than this. For me it just needed better combat. I can play the same grindy stuff forever if the combat is fun. I played EverQuest for about 5 years and that has no story or quests, it was just the combat and the loot that kept me playing. But the classes are incredibly deep, you are talking about 100 spells on each class, vs this game where you have about 4...

Each class in LoX has about a million ways to build it, not even including spells. Since every skill point is important there are tons of ways you can build a character. Divine Summoner alone has what, 9 different possible summons? Each class has several weapon skills, support skills, attack skills and/or spells, some which overlap between classes, etc. Oversimplification is not presenting a very good argument against the game.

Even in that example you gave you are not considering that you are controlling 6 characters that can all be built differently. This in turn creates micro-customization (individual characters) to macro-customization (total party synergy). It gets pretty deep and complex, my brother. If you are saying otherwise I question if you've spent enough time with the game.

Nothing against MMX or LoG1/2, either. They seem like fine games. But LoX has this stuff to the utmost degree, IMO.

 

[ProphetSword]

No matter how many ways there are to build characters, a boring experience is still a boring experience. If you got something great out of the game, good for you. Meanwhile, I probably won't finish this game or recommend it to anyone I know.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Ok, but let me address the criticisms you made.

I think the biggest issues I'm having with the game involve missing key elements that I like in a lot of other CRPGs.

The items aren't interesting, there are no side-missions, the story isn't compelling, and for most of the game I've felt more like someone who is watching the plot happen versus having any kind of involvement in what's going on. Up to this point, nothing I've done matters in any way to the plot; because, some predetermined jackass is the lead while my own heroes are just torch-bearing lackeys there to make sure he doesn't die. Not that you can really die anyway, since all it takes is a day of rest to recover from the most deadly mortal wounds.

The battles are fun for a while, but that wears off since there's not a lot of tactical depth there. Once you realize that, the whole thing just falls apart. I guess some people get something out of this game that I'm not getting. Personally, I'd rather play something like Pool of Radiance for the 85th time than waste another minute in this game. So much for high hopes.

The items need work, I agree. There are interesting non-equipment items, though.
There are plenty of side missions. How long did you play for? Each town has several Job Board quests, from finding special items to bounties and other missions, as well as stumbling upon puzzles and various things while exploring.
Story isn't compelling. Mmk. It's not really a story RPG, so this is your personal preference for what you want in RPGs. Fine. I doubt you would like Wizardry or Elminage Gothic, either.
You can die plenty. Are you playing on Hardcore difficulty? I have party wiped several times in boss battles. The resting mechanic is balanced and based on resources, i.e. expensive food that you have to manage accordingly. It's not so much a party wipe game, it's an, "Oh, shit. I'm stuck in a dungeon low on food and half my party is dead. Let me think of a really clever way to get through this." type game. I.e. heavy resource management and long-term party health (managing Curses, Sicknesses, etc., over the course of the game is actually meaningful and impacting as well).
Not a lot of tactical depth? That is just wrong, IMO. How long have you played for again? There is plenty of tactical depth overall. Maybe you should watch my current Hardcore Ironman LP and see for yourself. Some of the battles I get into are insane. Like the craziest battles I've ever had in a turn-based RPG insane. There is loads of depth there.

But alright, personal preference is personal preference at the end of the day. Just make sure the other criticisms are accurate.

 

[Mychkine]

I've played Xulima two years ago, during my daily commutes in train from home to work. These 45 min - 1h sessions were ideal to get the best out of this game : things are straightforward enough so that I could carry on without losing myself in the intricacies of a complicated plot (or design), and short sessions made me avoid fatigue from the (relative) genericness of setting and plot.

Gameplay, though was excellent and just challenging enough for my tastes.

What I'd like to add to the discussion is that I really don't think the game compares itself well to westen blobbers. Top-down perspective in exploration linked with a well-tuned turn based combat system is really incommon in western gaming. Yet, it is a really common JRPG thing. If one forgets that the writing and story don't overlap with modern JRPG themes, the gameplay itself is quite similar to Dragon Quest games for instance. And compares well with this gaming tradition. What do you think of it?

 

[V_K]

LoX has its share of JRPG influences, there's no denying that. However, I see it as more of a border case, mixing Japanese and Western elements, like e.g. Betrayal at Krondor.
(and since that statement would inevitably trigger some retard, I'll specify that said elements themselves are, of course, very different between LoX and BaK)