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Wizardry Long Live Wizardry! (And The All-New Games By Ex-Wizardry Developers)
- Thread starter aweigh
- Start date
i dunno but... i almost hate to say it but it appears that wiz emp 3 is a discrete and sharp decline from wiz emp 2. gone are the complex mathematical juggling of THACO modifiers (all armors have a flat value of zero...); the dungeons are extremely simple and pale in comparison to both wiz emp 2 and also the ones in any elminage game, and for whatever reason the game is just plain easier across the board. enemies come in smaller groups (most of the time) and unless the fourth dungeon ramps up the difficulty 10x i simply don't see it ever equaling the sheer lethality of most of wiz emp 2's encounters.
i think i can sum it up by saying that i actually have not died *a single time* in the whole 3 dungeons i've cleared; in comparison by the time i reached the 4th dungeon in wiz emp 2 half of my party was bordering past-middle age due to the ridiculous amount of resurrections i had done in the countless battles.
the itemization is a huge letdown as well and they implemented this weird system of simply giving existing loot either - or + modifiers with actual, wholly new loot being astronomically rare. this is as different as it can possibly get from the unbelievably huge amount of itemization in wiz emp 2.
i think i can sum it up by saying that i actually have not died *a single time* in the whole 3 dungeons i've cleared; in comparison by the time i reached the 4th dungeon in wiz emp 2 half of my party was bordering past-middle age due to the ridiculous amount of resurrections i had done in the countless battles.
the itemization is a huge letdown as well and they implemented this weird system of simply giving existing loot either - or + modifiers with actual, wholly new loot being astronomically rare. this is as different as it can possibly get from the unbelievably huge amount of itemization in wiz emp 2.
Comte
Guest
My Codex crew got jumped by these mother fuckers tonight barely made it back to Boltac's with the Ring of Death™
those motherfucking ninjas. lol @ you get an encounter with 2 groups of (6) of them
hehe i know you know dis but you always gotta montino any kind of enemy lord/knights mages or they will fuck u up with goddamn fucking badi spell. they're always way more annoying than regular mages/priests.
hehe i know you know dis but you always gotta montino any kind of enemy lord/knights mages or they will fuck u up with goddamn fucking badi spell. they're always way more annoying than regular mages/priests.
Comte
Guest
Some interesting articles on Wizardry from the Digital Antiquarian:
http://www.filfre.net/tag/wizardry/
http://www.filfre.net/tag/wizardry/
truly woodhead and greenberg shared the traits of all true innovators: they were fucking morons @ life. they basically guaranteed the decline of their series. their genuis cannot be understated nor undersold however; wizardry is the bedrock for the computer rpg. they should have been more gracious by allowing the fact that their inspiration came from earlier groundbreaking efforts like oubliette which ironically have been relegated into obsolete obscurity by wizardry itself.
the best thing they ever did was was selling the license to japan. i have a read a few articles detailing the how and the why of wizardry's unending and fervent popular and cultural resonance in the gaming culture of japan and what i read was very surprising:
- the initial wizardry scenarios were instantly beloved by most of the japanese game developers and for whatever reasons that are beyond the scope of any post of mine to be explained the simple but deep systems that made up wizardry appealed immensely to them; so much so that the immediately starting copying the wizardry design and concept and literally giving life to the japanese computer gaming market (fm towns, pc-98, pc-88, sharp, etc). indeed an argument can be made that wizardry exploded the japanese computer gaming industry.
- a big part of the appeal lay in mistranslations. almost all of the (retarded) humor present in the initial wizardry scenarios were completely lost to the japanese players and a cult-like interpretation of the games' mythos began to accrue a life of its own in the mind of the japanese wizardry player. (see my post above detailing the hebrew and tarot connotations found within the names of the spells).
- the most relevant reason for wizardry's everlasting japanese popularity was the marketing campaign that followed the reverent reception of the games. for almost an entire decade the vast majority of japanese computer trade publications and magazines devoted huge amounts of content and editorializing to the games and as japan does with everything the wizardry series also became toys, animes, manga, board games, pen and paper games, and of course it goes without saying that it also became the bona fide blueprint for the japanese approach to designing an rpg game.
- the marketing was so strong that japanese consumers were receiving free copies of of each wizardry scenario from magazines and trade publications and the games were also marketed as well as included and packaged with japanese computers. it was a system seller.
- in the end the games themsevles proved to be stepping stone for a lot of japanese creative outlets and in utter contrast to the marketed approach of the wizardry series in the west, that of games for adults and serious gamers, the japanese reception of the wizardry games was that of games meant to be played by everyone and with universal appeal; this was once again fostered by things such as toy lines and endless manga adaptations.
- ...the only reason the series is not even MORE popular in japan than it is now is because of the changes Bradley introduced in wizardry 6. the japanese found the decline and retarded space shit and horribly designed item puzzles to be too different from what the real wizardry gameplay is like and thus not only did Bradley decline and kill the series in the west, so did he do the same thing in the east.
- those same japanese developers mentioned previously went on to become home console game developers and they carried their wizardry love with them.
edit: an addendum i would add, although this is pure speculation on my part: another facet to the appeal of wizardry to the japanese was indeed the rogue-like death features and the difficulty as japan loves to celebrate skillful triumph over adversity in any endeavor and it's a social thing that goes way beyond video games. for example in japan there were magazine interviews with players who had beaten the wizardry games.
the best thing they ever did was was selling the license to japan. i have a read a few articles detailing the how and the why of wizardry's unending and fervent popular and cultural resonance in the gaming culture of japan and what i read was very surprising:
- the initial wizardry scenarios were instantly beloved by most of the japanese game developers and for whatever reasons that are beyond the scope of any post of mine to be explained the simple but deep systems that made up wizardry appealed immensely to them; so much so that the immediately starting copying the wizardry design and concept and literally giving life to the japanese computer gaming market (fm towns, pc-98, pc-88, sharp, etc). indeed an argument can be made that wizardry exploded the japanese computer gaming industry.
- a big part of the appeal lay in mistranslations. almost all of the (retarded) humor present in the initial wizardry scenarios were completely lost to the japanese players and a cult-like interpretation of the games' mythos began to accrue a life of its own in the mind of the japanese wizardry player. (see my post above detailing the hebrew and tarot connotations found within the names of the spells).
- the most relevant reason for wizardry's everlasting japanese popularity was the marketing campaign that followed the reverent reception of the games. for almost an entire decade the vast majority of japanese computer trade publications and magazines devoted huge amounts of content and editorializing to the games and as japan does with everything the wizardry series also became toys, animes, manga, board games, pen and paper games, and of course it goes without saying that it also became the bona fide blueprint for the japanese approach to designing an rpg game.
- the marketing was so strong that japanese consumers were receiving free copies of of each wizardry scenario from magazines and trade publications and the games were also marketed as well as included and packaged with japanese computers. it was a system seller.
- in the end the games themsevles proved to be stepping stone for a lot of japanese creative outlets and in utter contrast to the marketed approach of the wizardry series in the west, that of games for adults and serious gamers, the japanese reception of the wizardry games was that of games meant to be played by everyone and with universal appeal; this was once again fostered by things such as toy lines and endless manga adaptations.
- ...the only reason the series is not even MORE popular in japan than it is now is because of the changes Bradley introduced in wizardry 6. the japanese found the decline and retarded space shit and horribly designed item puzzles to be too different from what the real wizardry gameplay is like and thus not only did Bradley decline and kill the series in the west, so did he do the same thing in the east.
- those same japanese developers mentioned previously went on to become home console game developers and they carried their wizardry love with them.
edit: an addendum i would add, although this is pure speculation on my part: another facet to the appeal of wizardry to the japanese was indeed the rogue-like death features and the difficulty as japan loves to celebrate skillful triumph over adversity in any endeavor and it's a social thing that goes way beyond video games. for example in japan there were magazine interviews with players who had beaten the wizardry games.
Dorarnae
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 721
yeah I am not done. took me a while to do these 4...and yes I need my harem :p
I always roll with 1 guy, rest female. female gear overall is better anyway.
Nostaljaded
Augur
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
- Messages
- 380
You are referring to their tasteful bikinis that somehow has a better rating than those fullplate male armors right?
In appreciation of your dedicated youtube videos on blobbers, I may be able to whip up those 5 waifus for you.
Guessed those well-developed waifus and lolis that I have posted in codex aren't to your liking.
Post their source images (preferably in
so i've been playing wizardry 1 on the pc-98... dear lord what a difficult game. first things first though: i love the keyboard controls. aside from that everything is almost exactly the same as if one were playing the ps1 version's wire-frame classic mode. the only real difference is the one thing that completely transforms the playing experience into something wholly different: the fact that you cannot save the game.
i had finally leveled up my initial party to the 3rd level and was feeling good (fighter/priest/thief/priest/bishop/mage) and decided to venture a bit further into the level when i get an encounter and win and am faced with the chest; up until that point i had actually NOT been opening any of the treasure chests because i knew my thief would fuck up and i did not have enough money for either poison antidotes or anything else. even a simple poison dart hitting my thief would be a guaranteed death sentence since i did not have enough gold to resurrect.
this was the first chest i decided to attempt to open... being level 3 i assumed my thief would handle it. upon inspection it said the trap was stunner. ok, i breath in and let it out real slow and press "D" and then type in the words... poison gas triggered. everyone is poisoned. i tried to walk back to the stairs but got wiped by an encounter after half my party died from walking.
i just sat there staring at the pc-98 emulator display. if this were any other version i could simply reload a save game from right before the most recent venture into the dungeon, like for example wiz emp 2 which only allows saving inside town (or in normal mode it also allows save + quit inside dungeons); but there was no suc option. the game saves its state constantly and my party was irrevocably lost. the thought of having to create six new people and level them up again was too much. alt + f4.
the fact that the crpg addict finished wiz 1 without ever breaking the game's rules and making a backup disk is astonishing. i can't think of a more random ass game for a player to iron-man. i can tell you first-hand that the #1 party killer in *any* version of wizardry are always the trapped chests and the thought of iron-manning this thing... jesus christ.
there's one thing to be said for the perma-death nature of the first wizardry games: the feeling of tension and excitement at surviving encounters and traversing deeper into the dungeon is so unbelievably immersive, so absorbing, and so complete that just playing for an hour or so and surviving a few low-level encounters feels like you just ran a triathalon. its high is euphoric and you feel like its the most important thing in the world, but the inevitable crash is equally powerful. the same feelings definitely apply as a general rule when pretty much any good game is iron-manned but the randomness and lethality of wizardry highlight it. all that said there's no way i'm playing a wizardry game without the ability to reload an earlier save.
edit: as an aside i want to remind the reader that in wiz 1 enemies could use spells when they surprised you. it was only with wiz 2, due to the obviously common ocurrance of surprise attack tiltowaits and the like that they removed the ability of spell use during surprise rounds for both enemy and player.
i had finally leveled up my initial party to the 3rd level and was feeling good (fighter/priest/thief/priest/bishop/mage) and decided to venture a bit further into the level when i get an encounter and win and am faced with the chest; up until that point i had actually NOT been opening any of the treasure chests because i knew my thief would fuck up and i did not have enough money for either poison antidotes or anything else. even a simple poison dart hitting my thief would be a guaranteed death sentence since i did not have enough gold to resurrect.
this was the first chest i decided to attempt to open... being level 3 i assumed my thief would handle it. upon inspection it said the trap was stunner. ok, i breath in and let it out real slow and press "D" and then type in the words... poison gas triggered. everyone is poisoned. i tried to walk back to the stairs but got wiped by an encounter after half my party died from walking.
i just sat there staring at the pc-98 emulator display. if this were any other version i could simply reload a save game from right before the most recent venture into the dungeon, like for example wiz emp 2 which only allows saving inside town (or in normal mode it also allows save + quit inside dungeons); but there was no suc option. the game saves its state constantly and my party was irrevocably lost. the thought of having to create six new people and level them up again was too much. alt + f4.
the fact that the crpg addict finished wiz 1 without ever breaking the game's rules and making a backup disk is astonishing. i can't think of a more random ass game for a player to iron-man. i can tell you first-hand that the #1 party killer in *any* version of wizardry are always the trapped chests and the thought of iron-manning this thing... jesus christ.
there's one thing to be said for the perma-death nature of the first wizardry games: the feeling of tension and excitement at surviving encounters and traversing deeper into the dungeon is so unbelievably immersive, so absorbing, and so complete that just playing for an hour or so and surviving a few low-level encounters feels like you just ran a triathalon. its high is euphoric and you feel like its the most important thing in the world, but the inevitable crash is equally powerful. the same feelings definitely apply as a general rule when pretty much any good game is iron-manned but the randomness and lethality of wizardry highlight it. all that said there's no way i'm playing a wizardry game without the ability to reload an earlier save.
edit: as an aside i want to remind the reader that in wiz 1 enemies could use spells when they surprised you. it was only with wiz 2, due to the obviously common ocurrance of surprise attack tiltowaits and the like that they removed the ability of spell use during surprise rounds for both enemy and player.
Alchemist
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2013
- Messages
- 1,439
You could make a second party just to retrieve the first one, and bring them back to town for resurrection. The tricky part would be surviving far enough to retrieve them. CRPG Addict mentioned making enough characters for two parties, and rotating them to keep them leveled up equally, for rescue operations.
oh, believe i am aware of the options at my disposal. i just couldn't force myself to do all that work. i would need to create a new party and level them up to at least the second level (no small feat by itself) and then retrive the 1st party's corpses and haul them to the temple for resurrection. cool, except even if i did all that i still probably wouldn't have enough gold to pay the damn priest.
sure, all of this is solved by simply making a backup of your disk before any trip into the maze but the whole point of my playing the pc-98 version was to play it as the game was on its release. if i'm gonna go through the rigamorole of making backups then why not just play the ps1 version in wireframe mode with original sprites and be able to save to the memory card in town, right?
although i fully admit that if this were the 80's and i was playing this at its time of release and i had no notions of saving shit i would gladly play the game forever. it's a bit like being spoiled by electric lighting then making do with non-electric light; it's fine living but once the power comes back on there's no way you're going backwards.
edit: i'm not saying i don't like perma-death in games, btw; i just don't think a game like wizardry benefits all that much from it. we have to remember that it was never intended as an iron-man experience and that the limitations of the game's saving of its state were due to technological issues in the first wizardry. the entire thing with creating backup adenturers to find the corpses of the previous party was a band-aid fix for what they saw as a problem they couldn't "solve" at the time. after the game saw success they left it like that out of ego.
sure, all of this is solved by simply making a backup of your disk before any trip into the maze but the whole point of my playing the pc-98 version was to play it as the game was on its release. if i'm gonna go through the rigamorole of making backups then why not just play the ps1 version in wireframe mode with original sprites and be able to save to the memory card in town, right?
although i fully admit that if this were the 80's and i was playing this at its time of release and i had no notions of saving shit i would gladly play the game forever. it's a bit like being spoiled by electric lighting then making do with non-electric light; it's fine living but once the power comes back on there's no way you're going backwards.
edit: i'm not saying i don't like perma-death in games, btw; i just don't think a game like wizardry benefits all that much from it. we have to remember that it was never intended as an iron-man experience and that the limitations of the game's saving of its state were due to technological issues in the first wizardry. the entire thing with creating backup adenturers to find the corpses of the previous party was a band-aid fix for what they saw as a problem they couldn't "solve" at the time. after the game saw success they left it like that out of ego.
Dorarnae
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 721
You are referring to their tasteful bikinis that somehow has a better rating than those fullplate male armors right?
In appreciation of your dedicated youtube videos on blobbers, I may be able to whip up those 5 waifus for you.
Guessed those well-developed waifus and lolis that I have posted in codex aren't to your liking.
Post their source images (preferably inbarebodiespng format with transaparent background) and their final desired image format and resolution.
oh didn't know you had some....I need them to be in 192x192 png format
I did a few more, now using these:
they're all from the card game Last Chronicle
I'll probably redo the guy or change it, I messed up somewhere.
oops and the girl drinking, thought it was something in her hair, but it's the background...I'll fix that
Celerity
Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,096
Heh, now give Wiz 5 a try on PC. Pretty sure it has the same system, but unlike Wiz 1 (where you can actually skip very large portions of the game and cherry pick farm certain very easy encounters) there's shortcuts, but you can't just ignore some 75% of the game.
yeah, it wasn't until wiz 6 that quick-saving, or "save and quit", was introduced. however by the time of wiz 3 sir-tech started including reminders in the packaging of the game that explicitly advised players on how to go about creating backup disks.
and yeah whoever the fuck finishes wiz 5 without making backups of their saved game is a goddamn national folk hero. i'm certainly no expert on iron-manning games but when i pause and think about the nature of this style of play i can't help but think that the wizardry games certainly have to be among the most difficult games to actually ever finish due to the random lethality of encounters and dungeon traps.
edit: yes i know wizardry is not an iron-man game because getting wiped simply returns you to town where you create new adventurers and continue with the adventure, so whatever, "games with perma-death" then. you guys know what i'm talking about.
here's a brief video of wiz 1 PC-98 version (the best and most high-resolution version port of the original wiz 1 scenario)
edit: you know... i could honestly play this all fucking day. the wireframe graphics are perfect. the keyboard commands are perfect. the high-resolution font of the pc-98 port is perfect. wizardry might possibly the perfect game. i can't think of a single game that's just as deep and just as playable 30 years later on original format.
edit: you know... i could honestly play this all fucking day. the wireframe graphics are perfect. the keyboard commands are perfect. the high-resolution font of the pc-98 port is perfect. wizardry might possibly the perfect game. i can't think of a single game that's just as deep and just as playable 30 years later on original format.
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Celerity
Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,096
On the other hand, sufficient technical knowledge makes it not that hard. After all they give you a fountain that full heals and resurrects. There's no penalty or failure chance. You literally can't lose when you find this unless your entire party dies.
Dorarnae
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 721
Nostaljaded
Augur
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
- Messages
- 380
Dorarnae
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 721
here the picture I did with transparent background. to be honest I don't know if I did a good job...in particular the last one, had a lot of trouble with her hair. also do like the ''size'' of your picture, they feel more all the same size...
I did resize some when I did mine :S
I did resize some when I did mine :S
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Comte
Guest
In Wiz 1 is it worth it to change a fighters class to a Samurai? Or should I just wait until I have enough stats to make him a Lord?
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