Wizardry Long Live Wizardry! (And The All-New Games By Ex-Wizardry Developers)

[Dorarnae]

wizardry asterisk is easy once you get a miracle mace. infinite SP release of 50k exp lol.
but I was actually happy to find that, it takes so long to lvl up without that.

 

[Dorarnae]

oh god, i couldn't help myself, i went and looked at a map of the final floor of the post-game dungeon (after the castle).

the final floor of the final post game dungeon is a huge 20x20 dark zone, and the final uber post-game boss is a fixed encounter somewhere in it. you have to walk through the entire 20x20 grid til u find it, and the random encounters consist of the previous 3 top uber-bosses lolol

"Is the last of the map. First yourself cheers for good work ... you have created a map image so far!" - the website this is from

well on the plus side it does make the castle b6f where i'm stuck right now seem super easy and doable by comparison.

edit: btw, the final post-game boss, the dragon reiburesu i'm pretty certain is an homage to the top dog of the gods of wizardry, the dragon l'kbreth, which himself is an tribute to the richard garriott's akalabeth.

here's reiburesu

interesting, that's the npc in the first game that I couldn't kill.

 

[Celerity]

Wiz 5 wasn't that heavy on the mage spam, mostly because enemy groups weren't that large and it seemed like magic resist on them was really common. I still had multiple dual classed ones thogh, I think my typical team was something like Sam/Sam/Lord/Ninja/Priest/Bishop.

 

[aweigh]

i've recently made it a point to never bring a bishop along in my dungeoneering. they're almost always reduced to simple utility fonts by mid game to end game and beyond and they can't contribute in melee and they're fragile and the only thing they bring to the table is advance notice of what you're carrying; much better to fill their slot up with another hybrid-caster-warrior.

one can always wait a lil bit and id shit later.

 

[Celerity]

Meh, limited inventory space. I'd rather know if that ?Sword is a Muramasa, Odin, or a drop. And so on down the line. That's probably the reason you were hilariously undergeared by the way. You don't need 6 melee characters so I'm completely fine with utility. And my fragile character was actually the Ninja, everyone else got decent life gains.

 

[Dorarnae]

so I got elminage original(pc) today and there's no english language option. the faceload feature doesn't seem to be there either but on their website they seem to announce a patch for that...
bit disappointed with the option for display...it's a .ini file. would of preferred something like generation xth had.

 

[Great Deceiver]

The Elminage Gothic PC translation was released by Ghostlight; they haven't announced any plans for Original.

It's possible to play the English language PSP version of Elminage Original on PC with PPSSPP; I guess that's as good as it gets right now. I haven't been able to find an updated .iso though (the first version that came out had a hilariously botched translation). Anyone?

 

[Dorarnae]

The Elminage Gothic PC translation was released by Ghostlight; they haven't announced any plans for Original.

It's possible to play the English language PSP version of Elminage Original on PC with PPSSPP; I guess that's as good as it gets right now. I haven't been able to find an updated .iso though (the first version that came out had a hilariously botched translation). Anyone?

oh I don't really mind not having english, I can still play the game. would of been just nice to have and cool for others.
I already played that game like 6 times on psp (japanese and english). I have multiple version of couple dungeon crawler hehe.

 

[Celerity]

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/gridder

 

[aweigh]

Dorarnae i was watching ita-chan's playthrough of the post-game in wiz-emp 2 and i am really curious: how the hell does he manage to have level 50-100 characters with Age 17-25 ??? I just reached the post-game dungeon myself and my entire party is like 50-70 years old and everyone's around level 50.

 

[Celerity]

Unless they changed it, one possible use of the wish spell is reverse aging, which I abused heavily. There's also likely at least one Ankh of Wonder style item with the same effect. There is a spell that can raise a stat by 1 or reduce age by 1 isn't there? It'd be a Mage spell.

 

[Dorarnae]

there's probably some item SP that reduce age. one of the trap with chest also reduce age by one.
and he probably farmed to will o wisp and then used the chest spell on encounter below.

as for wish, I don't think you can, you can only remove the level drained.

 

[aweigh]

problem solved. there's a fountain of rejuvenation in the post-dungeon.

 

[aweigh]

LA-HA-LI-TO ... explosive flame I, Hanate than me
! I KA-TI-NO ··· my words, case stop the enemy awaken a sleeping
BA-DI ··· life death the give!
ZIL-WA-N ... I curse, scare off, and give the eternal death!

True words meaning True remark Source
AB Disturbed power? (Part of the ABRIEL) Arefube #Five
AL Double Arifura all
BA Reverse Bearifu all
CAL See through Chu Ali Fuller all
CO Devil Chuzanme Side Story
DAL icy Dahl Ali Fuller all
DI life Darui all
DIA Feeling Daruiarifu Side Story
DIL darkness Daruira all
DOR return Dazanmere all
DU know Dauku all
FE weight Feein all
FIC Any presence or spirit-yo ~ Feiche all
FIS Fuck off dude · ~ remove Feishin all
FO light Fozanme all
GA Alien world Gain'arifu Side Story
GREF Body-wall Moth inlay Ein Four all
GU Door Gain'uku Side Story
HA Invocation Hea all
I Wish Yeah Side Story
IT Detach release - Ieta all
KA Care, sleep Kafuarefu all
KAL Of the gas Kafuarefura all
KI blessing Kahui all
KO soft Kafuzanme all
KUS sealed Kafuukushin Side Story
LA large Raarifu all
LE
(EL) Ni Kaeru? (Part of the Abriel)
← description in the game Raein
(Einra) #Five
LI fire Loei all
LIK anger Raikafu all
LIS Scare Rai scene all
LO Increasing the-move Razanme all
LOK Return Razanmekafu all
LOR blade Razanmere all
LTO heat Ratazanme Side Story
MA Widely-distant Mimuarifu all
MAN Variation Meme Alif Noon all
MAS accurately Meme Arif scene Side Story
ME Play Mimuein Side Story
MIL bright Mimui all
MO Iron, sound Mimuzanme all
MOR Scare off, fear Meme Than melee all
N Death - Undead Noon all
NES Substance of Noon Ein scene Side Story
NA heart Nun'arifu Side Story
NI stone Nun'i all
NO Word-care Nunzanme all
OMAS Stability Than main meme Arif scene Side Story
OS Power Zanmeshin all
PIC Space, parking, clothing Peiche all
PO Fast-speed Pezanme all
QUA Cloud Kofuukuarifu Side Story
QUREA Fog Coffs Wu clay Ein Arif Side Story
R of Leh all
RA Swallow? (Part of the LOKARA) Rearifu #Five
REI Indelible Reein'i Side Story
RI Calm? (Part of the ABRIEL) Rei #Five
SO Transparency Shinzanme all
TI Stop by stop · ~ Tai all
TIL Prompt Taira all
TO Wind-storm Tazanme all
TU curtain Tauku all
VA Open Vauarifu Side Story
WA Dismiss-solving optical and Wouarifu all
ZA Heaven Zearifu Side Story
ZIL curse Zeira all

http://www.pekori.jp/~emonoya/faq/spell/spell_tw.html

 

[TigerKnee]

Bloody hell, I should have saved that list of quiz answers for Wizardry Empires II because now I can't find it

 

[aweigh]

although i'm still planning on finishing up the post-game dragon boss in wiz emp 2 it's unfortunately not exactly "ibag's tower" material in terms of length and complexity; but nevertheless this first exposure to Starfish's wizardry empire series hooked me in like... well, like elminage did. In SOME ways i even find it superior to elminage, for many reasons both overt and minute that i won't get into right now. it's a real shame they lost the license to wizardry because their approach to the wizardry formula is almost *perfect* and it truly, truly does shine through to the player in these wizardry empire titles.

anyhoo, i just had to feed the wiz empire need so i decided to start playing the japanese version of wiz emp 3 on psp. i wouldn't be able to do it if i hadn't had the previous experience of playing throguh wiz emp 2 in english thanks to mrrichard999 and helly; the main reason i can navigate wiz emp 3 is because everything is pretty much the same in terms of interface and mechanics. the placement of all items and their item categories in the shop are exactly the same as in wiz emp 2 so i don't have to guess where things are, and (ironically?) due to some of the untranslated bits and pieces still left in the english patch for wiz emp 2 i had to familiarize myself with the japanese characters for things like: main-hand, sub-weapon, both-hands, armor and shield equipment, and also the japanese characters for each of the game's races and classes (i think it was patch #1 that didn't have any of those details translated so i learned through trial and error).

for those interested in giving it a go i would rate wiz emp 3's foreign-language-playability so far to be 10/10 if you already finished wiz emp 2 on PC and thus know how everything works; otherwise it would be impossible to play without at least *some* japanese language knowledge. from what i've seen so far of the game there aren't any language-derived puzzles or obstacles, and Starfish isn't big on language-derived puzzles anyway with wiz emp 2 being the huge and obvious lone exception.



Some interesting things to note that i've learned from playing wiz emp 3: Starfish made this game exactly 1 year and a half before the release of the first Elminage game (loss of Wizardry license) but in terms of the underlying dungeon mechanics and gameplay balancing and other such things this title marks what is indisputably Starfish's first big leap in dungeon crawler design and already incorporates many of the gameplay facets and mechanics that the Elminage series utilizes.

a few very quick examples:

- unlike wiz emp 2 (and i assume wiz emp 1 as well), wiz emp 3 utilizes very similar dungeon design to the elminage series. there is an immediately obvious shift away from navigational obstacle-courses and instead the floors i've played so far are all laid out exactly like the ones in elminage; densely packed 20x20 maps with a lot of t-shapes and more spatially organic hallway layout. basically the floors don't feel like magical puzzle rooms like in wiz emp 2 and feel more like a progressive series of actual mazes in wiz emp 3 and in elminage. i enjoy both philosophies but as with anything else the best approach is usually a combination of both.

- introduction of a lot of junk gear (non-AC reducing gear) and a lot of cursed gear and a reduction in quantity of items that allow *major* feats such as changing into a class, reducing age, etc. haven't really reached any definite conclusions as to why this would be.

- the THACO system has been simplified a bit more here in wiz emp 3 in comparison to the numerical smorgasbord that was wiz emp 2. one of the most enjoyable parts of the itemization in wiz emp 2 is the fact that _every_ piece of gear be it weapon or armor or accessory entails a min/max approach to 3 main variables: # of attacks / accuracy modifier / AC reduction. Yes, in wiz emp 2 (and i assume in 1 as well) all armor pieces also affect THACO. now this is still present in wiz emp 3 but from what i've seen so far in the gear from the first dungeon almost every piece of armor has a flat "0" THACO modifier thus meaning that only their AC reduction matters and this falls more in line with the Elminage series design.

- two huge changes to the graphical and navigational player/game interfacing: wiz emp 2 utilizes ultra-fast "lock-step" movement the same as all of the classic wizardries (my personal preferences) whereas wiz emp 3 (and later on the Elminage games) utilize a noticeably drawn-out movement animation.

- the second huge change is in dungeon atmosphere. wiz emp 2 does not attempt to create a believable atmosphere inside its tilt-a-whirl rubiks cube dungeon floors and instead plays traditional accompanying music that soundtracks the game's town phases and dungeon phases; wiz emp 3 immediately differenttiates itself from its predecessor by doing away almost entirely with melodic music inside dungeons and instead utilizes a footsteps that change depending on the type of environment they're walking on and the vast majority of the time you'll only be listening to a deliberate atmosphere for each floor that so far are very well done. this also falls in line more with the elminage.

- another noticeable change from wiz emp 2 is a much lower encounter rate belied by a much higher number of fixed encounters. this is the reason you don't see many fights in the wireframe video above; i started recording that after i had already cleared the floor of its fixed encounters. wiz emp 2 has a much, much higher encounter rate and a lower number of fixed enemies. elminage follows the same philosophy of low encounter rate +/ high amount of fixed enemies.

 

[Dorarnae]

I dunno, the dungeon in wiz emp3 felt like the other wizardry empire to me. Wiz emp2 if you played the first game before is a bit disappointing considering the castle map is exactly the same but they rotated it.
Wiz empire 3 is fun but wish the post game was longer...the psp version added one dungeon I think.

as for music in dungeon, this is exactly like the other two wizardry empire on console. it's only the pc version that had music.

 

[aweigh]

that's good to know man. thanks for the info. odd choices, especially the music. as for the dungeons... well all we have to do is compare the maps and the differences are there for any to see. give me 1 sec to find pics

 

[aweigh]

the difference in dungeon design philosophy is extremely obvious, and those differences are consistent. hehe, just by looking at those... i wonder which map people think is the more intelligent one?

Spoiler

It's the Wizardry Empire 2 map. Duh.

 

[Dorarnae]

they released the patch for elminage original on pc recently. adding the faceload feature and some fix.


just suck because all my stuff is 48x48. now you need 192x192

I wonder if they'll add music load. the US version had it with the patch but the japanese version didn't.

 

[aweigh]

mmm those high-res sprites look beautiful. do you know if they added anything?

 

[Dorarnae]

I don't think they added anything, this is just like the psp version. maybe one difference I noticed is crafted items are now in green color, on the psp it didn't have any color...

 

[aweigh]

btw, thanks a ton for that faq link for wiz emp 3 Dorarnae. dude, how the hell do you FIND those websites!?

 

[Dorarnae]

dunno. I just type the name of the game in japanese+wiki in google hehe.

 

[Comte]

It was in the fall of the fifth year of the fanatical wizard Werdna that our campaign began. What season or year it is now, none of us knows. I believe we are on the ninth level of this accursed dungeon, but time and distance are ever shifting, and reality is fleeting.

As we break camp, my five companions and I sort out our weapons and supplies. We have accumulated wondrous treasures and mighty weapons. Dreams of returning to enjoy the subtle pleasures that this shared booty could bring fill our wakeful sleep. Sezmar, the samurai; Hawkwind, the ninja; and Sarah, the priest, are the vanguard. Moradin, the thief; Prospero, the mage; and Tuck, the bishop, bring up the rear.

We slowly make our way down the zigzagging corridor. Suddenly, the eldritch light cast by Sarah's lomilwa spell reveals a secret door. Kicking the door open, we charge into a small room. Unfortunately, the hellhounds, demons, and deadly creeping coins do not welcome company. A fierce battle ensues that shakes the very foundations of the dungeon. Hawkwind slays a lycarus with his bare hands, while Sezmar dispatches hellhounds with his murasama blade. The tide of battle turns and twists in a kaleidoscope of weapons and mystical energies. Finally Prospero ends it. While Sarah shields us behind a maporfic spell, Prospero casts the dreaded tiltowait spell. We are victorious!

Bare, magic-blasted walls hardly reward our heroic effort. Our luck suddenly takes a dramatic turn—downward! The secret chute masks the hidden entrance to the tenth level. The final path to Werdna's lair is open. As we are standing around, slapping each other on the hack, the air is pierced with a maniacal laugh ... Werdna waits! Sobered, we regroup, heal our wounds, and set out again. We have no delusion: our greatest challenge lies ahead.

Resolutely raising our banner high, we stealthily tiptoe forward. We quickly vanish in the stygian darkness. Momentarily, our banner shines with its great war cry, "Trebor Sux!" Then it too vanishes as distant sounds of battle reverberate.

—Book IV, Chapter 9, of the Wizardry Chronicles

If this excerpt stirs excitement within you, then you are on your way to being addicted to one of the most innovative waves sweeping the country. Riding high on the crest of the popularity of computer role-playing games is Wizardry. It has been widely acclaimed as the finest and truest adaptation of the Dungeons and Dragons type game yet brought to the computer screen. Besides hitting the top ten on the charts, in the minds of many Wizardry should he the 1981 winner of the best game award. The second scenario, "Knight of Diamonds," due for mid-March release, may well capture the 1982 award.

Epic Insomnia. In the short time since Wizardry's introduction, the ripple effect stemming from this unique program has astonished even its creators, Robert Woodhead and Andrew Greenberg. Hordes of fervent Wizardry groups (many suffering from acute insomnia) have sprung up around the country. The section of post devoted to games on the Source has been almost completely taken over by Wizardry players. When a message was left on the Source looking for input for this article, the deluge of response was phenomenal and diverse. These were some of the comments:

"It sure helps to relax a person after a hard day at work. That troll does look like my boss!"—Mike, Omaha.

"The greatest joy in the game is getting those rare treasures. The other joy is mapping out all the contortions of the maze."—Harry, Brookline, Massachusetts.

"The dawn frequently breaks as a session ends. Luckily my boss is as addicted as I am."—Bill, Freeport, Maine.

"What do you call a sixteenth level ninja with +3 plate, a + 3 shield, a + 2 helm, silver gauntlets, a Ring of Healing, and a Shuriken? You call him Sir!"—Jon, Richardson, Texas.

Some of the responses were more sobering:

"I think combat in this game is like warfare of the future: controlled on a computer terminal, impersonal, calculated."—Dale, San Francisco.

"Sometimes I submerge myself so much into my characters, I lose almost all sense of my own identity. I once played for three days straight without coming up out of the game. When my party was finally devastated, I almost broke down into tears."—Dave, Seattle.

Real-World Sorcery. Others related Wizardry to the real world. For example, from a lengthy interview with Harry Conover of Computer Simulated Sports comes this business application:

"I'd liken Wizardry to a fantasized system of personnel management. As the manager of a small group of individuals, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, you must manipulate the members' performances against the 'competition' so that they achieve a certain goal. In Wizardry, as in real life, the goal can be mere survival, or the quest for power, or, over the long haul, the pot of gold."

Another spanner of worlds is Chuck Dompa. He has brought Wizardry to academe. "CS470 (Teaching Fantasy Simulation)" is in the catalog of courses for Penn State University in New Kensington, Pennsylvania. It is a graduate level continuing education course primarily for teachers and educators. The focus of the course is game theory and application. Wizardry was chosen as the most sophisticated computer fantasy game.

"The response has been so great that I hope to offer shortly an entire course centered around Wizardry. All the diverse elements that the course seeks to cover are contained within the scope of this game." Dompa feels that, through the impetus of his course, Wizardry will find its way into many other high schools and colleges as a valuable teaching aid.

Creating Characters, Building Lives. That prophetic tomorrow is a reality today for Dr. Ron Levy, a board-certified child psychiatrist and author of the book, New Language of Psychiatry, published by Little, Brown & Company. Wizardry has become an added diagnostic and therapeutic tool in his Williamsville, New York, practice. How this came about he recently conveyed in a letter to Sirtech, the publishers of Wizardry.

"This game, which allows children to create a group of adventuring characters and to journey through a maze where they fight battles with monsters, has turned out to be surprisingly helpful to me in my work with children who have emotional problems. ... The child, let us call him Jim (I have changed his name), was living in a family where there were serious marital problems. Jim, an otherwise bright and capable child, had begun doing poorly in elementary school several months before I saw him. I saw Jim on an emergency basis after he had announced to his family that he was going to kill himself. When he came to my office, he let everyone know that he did not want to be there and he refused to talk to me at all. This sad-looking school-age child sat quietly in my office staring at the floor, while his parents sat in my waiting room worrying about him. Because this child had declared his intention to commit suicide and was uncooperative with my efforts to interview him, there was little I could do at that point other than to consider admitting him immediately to a psychiatric hospital for his own safety and for further evaluation.

"However, with the help of your game, I was able to move beyond this apparent impasse. Jim agreed to play video games on my Apple computer and he became fascinated by my description of the Wizardry game. He made a set of characters, gave them names, and played nonstop for almost an hour. After the first half hour, he was willing to discuss with me what he was doing in the game, and I was able to learn a great deal about him from what he had told me and from watching him play. I found out that he was not as depressed as he seemed and that he was able to become enthusiastic about something he was interested in; and we were able to talk about some of his worries, using the game as a springboard. At the conclusion of this visit, he told me he had no intention of killing himself because he 'wanted to come back and play some more.' In this case, as in several others, I have been able, by using your game, to evaluate correctly children who initially appeared much more disturbed than they really were. ... Although you intended to create a recreational game, you have inadvertently provided me with a marvelous tool for my work with children."

During our interview with Dr. Levy, several related thoughts were brought forward.

"Wizardry is considerably different from Ultima, because the perspective of Wizardry is always subjective, while Ultima is objective." He felt that this difference hampered Ultima as a role-playing game.

Dr. Levy also felt that the development of a character through the dungeon parallels, in many ways, the growth of the child. The levels are similar to age brackets, such as the difference between a five-year-old and a six-year-old. "In a child's description of what his hero can accomplish often lie clues to some of the obstacles and troubles the child experiences in his own life. ... What the character is able to do is what the child fears to do."

One for All and All for One. This train of thought prompted a hypothesis put forth to Dr. Levy:

Wizardry is very different from most role-playing games in that it is designed for parties of six, rather than for solo explorers. In fact, the dungeon inhabitants are so powerful that no one character could survive long by himself. Therefore, unlike the typical game where you become the single character, here you must develop six different characters, each with their own persona and talents. Then the characters' mutual advancement and interaction becomes your goal. This is strongly reminiscent of Herman Hesse's classic concept of the "fragmented man," whereby each character becomes a different fragment of your own personality.

Dr. Levy considered this hypothesis was quite valid and applicable here. "Certainly one of the game's strongest features is that the child has much more total involvement with six characters than with one character." As to the therapeutic value of the game, he stated that "this game seems to draw together a number of features that evoke in children many of their fundamental anxieties and to hold out to them the prospect that, with repeated attempts, anxiety-provoking situations can be overcome. ... That is the lesson of the game, that if you keep trying and don't overextend your abilities, you will steadily progress toward a goal."

In his letter to Sir-tech, Dr. Levy closed with this endorsement: "I believe other professionals who work with children will find the game as useful as I have, and I strongly recommend that child psychiatrists and child psychologists seriously investigate the use of games such as Wizardry in the evaluation and treatment of children with emotional disorders."

International Spell. The effects of Wizardry are slowly spreading worldwide. A call to a colleague in England brought forth several interesting facts. There the game is selling strongly. England has been heavily into role-playing games for a long time (they feel they invented miniatures), and they are rapidly embracing Wizardry. He related that there was a small group of fanatical Wizardry players on a nearby air force base where, during work, one has to duck constantly to avoid being blasted by flying lorto and molito spells.

There is also talk in England of organizing Wizardry contests, where the winner would be the person whose team brought out the most gold in a fixed time limit. The event would be grouped into sections by the overall level average of each team, so that it would be fair, and everyone would use the same scenario. There is great enthusiasm for the idea in England; perhaps similar tournaments will be sponsored in the United States.

A great true-life story was related by Harry Conover: "I've a friend, a high-ranking public official, who's deathly afraid of flying. He's been playing Wizardry ever since it came out. His addiction has become so bad that he dreamt he was on a plane that started to spin toward the ground. Rising from his seat, he cast the Wizardry spell kadorto (which brings characters back to life, even if they are ashes). Immediately the movie screen in the front of the cabin lit up with 'Spell failed' . . . and he knew all was lost."

War in the Wee Hours. For a moment, step with us through the mirror for a wry touch of perspective, as related by Harry's wife Deborah.

"It was all those 'beep-beep-beeps' at four in the morning that got to me. I knew Harry had solved Zork and Zork II in record time, but his involvement with this game Wizardry was bizarre.

"So I lurched into his office and was silenced with a wave of his hand. 'Jeez,' he muttered, 'six level-ten mages, three chimeras, and three nightstalkers!!!'

"I looked around the room and saw only Pepsi bottles, maze maps, and a man hunched over the keyboard.

"'Harry, it's four in the morning. You can fight them tomorrow.'

"'No. They must be dealt with now' was his abrupt reply, and his fingers flashed across the keyboard.

"'There,' he said, turning and smiling at me, 'that takes care of them! And 6,742 experience points for me and the crew!'

"'Harry, come to bed,' I said, leaving for a saner haven.

"'In a minute: came his reply, wafting out of his office, 'I've got to get back to the castle first.'

"So, if you see a thirty-four-year-old man outside a castle, tell him to come to bed."

Our spell is wearing thin, time is fleeting. If you can linger, someone is offering free rounds of drinks at Gilgamesh's Tavern and Boltac's Trading Post is running a halfprice sale on copper gauntlets. Want to come along? It is only just down the road and turn left....