KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Tweed]

Kobolds are the best.

 

[Serus]

Half Giant(cloud) monks are quite powerful. Probably the best martial race/class combo IMO.

Interesting. Even with high STR and size, won't his damage be subpar later compared to other melees, especially 2-weapon users (or samurai)? And strength focused monk will have subpar AC as well. The main advantage is combining a 20 speed H-G with high speed class. Speed + size is good but not enough. A good grappler* but there are others. Monks have some nice bonuses like 3x high saves (iirc) though. Overall decent but looks far from best to me.
I would need some convincing though a (half-)gigantic monk makes for an nice mental image.
BTW, the companion you can recruit is a Mul iirc.

*Do monk grapple bonuses work? I can't see them listed in character sheet under grapple after i levelled a monk for testing. Other grapple bonuses are accounted for.

 

[Cryomancer]

e subpar later compared to other melees, especially 2-weapon users (or samurai)? And strength focused monk will have subpar AC as well

The main advantage is fury of blows, ability to move and use a full round attack as a standard action attack, stun punch and other monk stuff.

 

[Serus]

e subpar later compared to other melees, especially 2-weapon users (or samurai)? And strength focused monk will have subpar AC as well

The main advantage is fury of blows, ability to move and attack, stun punch and other monk stuff.

And what advantage is furry of blows on 15 BAB class compared to a two-weapon user with 20 BAB? No, really - think about it for a moment and do the math. I see only that it's much cheaper.
Wade-in, fighter has it. Psychic Warrior has pounce, lol. It's OK if you don't wan't a Fighter for some reason but the reason isn't min-maxing.
How does stun punch work in practice? This is might be a point. Is there a lot of stuff immune to stun in the last 1/3 of the game?
What other stuff? It's all minor, as far as I see, compared to the alternatives. To be called "best", alternatives must be worse, not other way around.
Not saying that it's a bad combo but far from the "best" so far, in my opinion.

I'm not convinced about monks in general. Who even remotely sane comes to a melee fight with monsters and demons with bare hand and no armour? The latter is possible if you are Troll Slayer but otherwise, craziness.

 

[Efe]

I traded my monk for companions while in village.
definitely not a "best" for anything

 

[FA7]

Someone needs to make a "Quest for Roots" module.

What is "Quest for Roots"?

 

[Darth Canoli]

We know each other with Jorad already.
You can buy boots of... something (+10 speed) in Finchbury in the beginning of the game once you get ~5k. That's obviously not haste but the price is also not hasted. But you are right, Japanese are mostly short so a Half-Giant makes little sense. He can be Drake or Human or even Centaur.
Ok, I'll kill Grey Goblin meat this time.
What about the Mantis Rogue, you have one, right?

Don't get me wrong, I love half giants but more than one is overkill, variety helps a lot.
Also, I think Half-Giant Samuraï is a good match, low DEX race with the samurai ability to not suffer from armor move penalties.
Fighter H-G is good too but with light armors of armors with speed enchantment (there's the archangel sword which gives +10 speed) and with some boots of haste later on.

Mostly, everything works with the right equipment but two H-G in a party would be harder to manage.

The Mantis Rogue is amazing but you'll have to craft to make it a beast, main hand dispel weapon (+ shattermantle if/when you can afford it), then one skewer weapon (i'd make it skewer + destruction (+3D6 base damage) + barbed (increased crit multiplier), of course, one bow with +2 DEX bonus.
When you can afford to craft more, for the death snare and xadriphar, a light hammer with undead bane, undead destruction + the bypass incorporeal status enchantment, will be useful for the final fight as well.

The main advantage is fury of blows, ability to move and use a full round attack as a standard action attack, stun punch and other monk stuff.

It's good enough for chapters 1 and two up until the lizards, afterward, monks are just meatbags but I suppose you could make it work with a BAB belt or a +6 STR & DEX belt and craft some good combat gloves which can't be disarmed.
Even with that configuration, it wouldn't be as good as a mantis rogue.

 

[Reinhardt]

But you are right, Japanese are mostly short so a Half-Giant makes little sense.

pretend he's oni

 

[Butter]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1233530/view/3218393657302622736

Knights of the Chalice 2 Version 1.32
Hello all! This update focuses on
bug-fixing
and
AI improvements
. The main changes are the following:

• Fixed a source of crash when several characters cast healing spells (and other spells) out of combat.
  
• Fixed a source of crash in combat and when recruiting companions.
  
• Fixed an issue with the AI casting Protection from Energy on allies.
  
• Fixed an issue with large creatures taking a five-foot step when they shouldn't be able to do so.
  
• Fixed an issue associated with the square targeted by spellcasters when they cast summoning spells.
  
• Fixed broken links to Psychic Warrior powers and Bard spells in the help system.
  
• Psychic Warriors wearing armour that grants a better bonus than the psionic power Inertial Armour will no longer use that psionic power out of combat. Also tweaked some AI settings in the goblin-arena battle.
  
• Added the missing 'prone' sprite for Mimics, which is displayed when they're sleeping.

Please let me know if you still find crashes and other bugs with this version. Feel free to email me at enquiries@heroicfantasygames.com. A saved game will be very useful as part of a crash report.

I'll post a new
Kickstarter update
tomorrow.

Also, a
Matt Chat
(see Matt Chat on Youtube) about KotC 2 is planned this Friday at 4 pm Paris time.

Finally, be sure to check out
Solasta: The Lost Valley
, due to be released tomorrow (14 April). The Lost Valley is a brand new level 1 to 12 campaign that will take your party into the lands of the Dominion. Read more about it here. Congratulations to Tactical Adventures for the new release!!

Thank You, Wise Wizards and Mighty Warriors!!
Best regards

 

[Tacgnol]

Fighter H-G is good too but with light armors of armors with speed enchantment (there's the archangel sword which gives +10 speed) and with some boots of haste later on.

All I'd say is if you're planning to use the archangel sword, make sure the wielder is good aligned or you'll lose some of the benefits of the holy enchantment.

 

[Serus]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1233530/view/3218393657302622736

Knights of the Chalice 2 Version 1.32
Hello all! This update focuses on
bug-fixing
and
AI improvements
. The main changes are the following:

• Fixed a source of crash when several characters cast healing spells (and other spells) out of combat.
  
• Fixed a source of crash in combat and when recruiting companions.
  
• Fixed an issue with the AI casting Protection from Energy on allies.
  
• Fixed an issue with large creatures taking a five-foot step when they shouldn't be able to do so.
  
• Fixed an issue associated with the square targeted by spellcasters when they cast summoning spells.
  
• Fixed broken links to Psychic Warrior powers and Bard spells in the help system.
  
• Psychic Warriors wearing armour that grants a better bonus than the psionic power Inertial Armour will no longer use that psionic power out of combat. Also tweaked some AI settings in the goblin-arena battle.
  
• Added the missing 'prone' sprite for Mimics, which is displayed when they're sleeping.

Fixed... crash...
Glad to see it. It's not that kotc2 crashes so much that it takes away the fun of playing but it does crash a bit. Good job Pierre, may the Root be with You.

 

[Darth Canoli]

All I'd say is if you're planning to use the archangel sword, make sure the wielder is good aligned or you'll lose some of the benefits of the holy enchantment.

As all the enemies are evil, or at least 90% of them with oozes probably being neutral, and with no evil aligned quests, evil alignment is useless.

Fixed... crash...
Glad to see it. It's not that kotc2 crashes so much that it takes away the fun of playing but it does crash a bit. Good job Pierre, may the Root be with You.

I didn't experience a single crash in my last 3 full runs.
What you experience is probably one of the miracles from windows 10...

 

[Serus]

All I'd say is if you're planning to use the archangel sword, make sure the wielder is good aligned or you'll lose some of the benefits of the holy enchantment.

As all the enemies are evil, or at least 90% of them with oozes probably being neutral, and with no evil aligned quests, evil alignment is useless.

Fixed... crash...
Glad to see it. It's not that kotc2 crashes so much that it takes away the fun of playing but it does crash a bit. Good job Pierre, may the Root be with You.

I didn't experience a single crash in my last 3 full runs.
What you experience is probably one of the miracles from windows 10...

That would quite a miracle indeed.

Spoiler

I'm still using Windows 7

 

[anvi]

I've been on the last battle for a few days, lots of crashes but the update fixed most. One bug that remains is if I use silence, sometimes an enemy decides to cast a spell and runs into the silence first then he's unable to cast and the game gets stuck.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm getting a crash whenever I recruit Jorad this game.

Some weird builds and advice.

The main design goal is to maximize content/dialogue both because I'm learning the game (prevents negative theorycrafting/finds all the stuff) and because it turns out that's pretty good in a game with finite EXP/Gold and emphasis on initiative (avoiding surprise).

Designing with an eye for Archmage (while testing on Enchanter) that means running:

Half-Giant (Jorad is meh with no Whirlwind, Word of Honor, bad subrace)
Small character
Half-Sal
Mantis
Ranger
Bard/Rogue (I've tried both but too much overlap and need other slots)
20 INT Psi
Wiz
22 Search minimum
Word of Honor
Divine Champ of Good

Several other things I'm forgetting, but that covers most of them.

 

[Desiderius]

Mantis bard, no finesse, what? I don't get it.
If you want the fire option then go fire drake, superior choice for melee. Salamanders = 20 speed + average stats. Probably one of the two worst races.
Wizards Stygian Human > Wizard Elf unless on normal. Wizards are feat starved in my opinion, especially early. +2 search shouldn't matter. In addition Elves are gay and suck.
For grappling I'd prefer my own guy. A Centaur for speed. Keeping the slot for a companion better than that monk, which is, i think, most of them. However i didn't play with him or any monk so i might be wrong.
I liked my deep kobold psion, my most tanky character early. Has additional 3AC natural/size. Has 20 INT and covers small size dialogue options. Of curse feats are feats and humans have great stats for any class.
A Halfling Bishop, yes that at least makes sense and sounds funny. +1 AC from size and +2 saves might or might not be worth 2 feats + normal size but bishop shouldn't be very feat hungry. I like the idea. How many humans one can have in the party anyway.

(1) Mantis Bard (Bard vs Rogue is very interesting question - full BAB is big)

With no DEX-to-damage DEX-based isn't a thing outside Rogue who has Sneaks. Plus Bard wants to be effective with one non-light weapon in main slot since big hitters want to Two-hand. Eventually Pal Companion will use one but by then you'll have plenty.

Mantis lets you also use two Lights which is a Godsend since you're swimming in them and Bard is desperate for more impact in combat. Caravanner Bard gets +4 CHR, -2 DEX so your DEX isn't that much higher than your STR anyway. Belt of STR gets you to 16 STR and full BAB makes up the difference. Instrument first round then things are softened up for your attax. I didn't even pick Bow Proficiency this time since Mantis wants to mix it up. STR-class.

(2) Half-Sal Reach Sam

Drake comparison makes no sense. If I'm hitting 24 squares per attack I want to be attacking exclusively. Half-Sal adds Fire to every one of those. One action economy, not two.

Try it, it's good. Sam is great on its own but I only want one pure Martial and Sam covers Word of Honor so Sam it is. Sam and Ranger get bonus feats and only need a couple stats so good fits for Half-Sal and HG.

Great fit with Disarm as well. You can set Disarm to auto-trigger with Ready on Approach as well which is fun. Reach great here (14 DEX for Combat Reflexes) and also mitigates lack of speed (as does Sam ability) but still good place for Boots of Striding.

(3) I've got Styg Human on Psion to get enough Feats for the Improved version of several Powers which are all nuts and Psi Mage Armor scales and gets Barkskin so doesn't need the Elf DEX. Trying not to duplicate races and really want the 22 Search from Elf w/ no Rogue.

Might not be worth it (Fire Mage doesn't seem that Feat hungry so will see).

(4) Monk scales like crazy (look at the saves!) and continually gains speed. Companion Monk has 20 STR + Grapple bonuses. I really like the Elemental Companion so will be tough choice when Pal shows up. Other companions have their uses but don't need Sorc I think.

Monk is a little bit of a slow comer so if you're judging them on first few levels you'll naturally be disappointed, but WIS to hit on the Stunning Fist is a nice one and you're continually picking up new abilities as you level. And even the Sun Ray thingy on the Companion Monk scales with level and I'll be able to unlock the improved version.

(5) Halfling Bishop is not perfect since it's a nonbo with Heavy Armor and you're basically giving up attacking. With Magic and Turning Domain (Mysticism at five) you can focus on the Strengths of the class while benefitting from the saves and AC from Halfling. So it's the least bad slot for a small character (Halfling Druid is really good but I'm not giving up Bishop).

(6) HG Ranger is just fun and pretty versatile since you can still whack stuff with a two-hander and 20 STR. But Ranger gets to do this:



So I'm always brining one. Half-Sal's pretty good Ranger too.

 

[Serus]

I'm getting a crash whenever I recruit Jorad this game.

Some weird builds and advice.

The main design goal is to maximize content/dialogue both because I'm learning the game (prevents negative theorycrafting/finds all the stuff) and because it turns out that's pretty good in a game with finite EXP/Gold and emphasis on initiative (avoiding surprise).

Designing with an eye for Archmage (while testing on Enchanter) that means running:

Half-Giant (Jorad is meh with no Whirlwind, Word of Honor, bad subrace)
Small character
Half-Sal
Mantis
Ranger
Bard/Rogue (I've tried both but too much overlap and need other slots)
20 INT Psi
Wiz
22 Search minimum
Word of Honor
Divine Champ of Good

Several other things I'm forgetting, but that covers most of them.

I still don't get it, even if the goal is to "learn" and have the most content.
Why the insistence on Salamanders? Does the ability to be a living thermometer sounds as exiting compared to other racial skills?
Why Ranger? What does one "learn" by trying a mediocre class that offers less unique mechanics than most others do?
Etc.

Well, it's your game. Have fun and may the Initiative Roll be with you.




Edit:

(2) Half-Sal Reach Sam

Drake comparison makes no sense. If I'm hitting 24 squares per attack I want to be attacking exclusively. Half-Sal adds Fire to every one of those. One action economy, not two.

It does you just missed it. I didn't say to use drake special attack at all. I thought you wanted Fire skill.
The 1d6/1d8 fire damage is roughly equal in my book to 2 STR* = 1 dmage and 1 AB. Less early game but more later when the fire damage is dwarfed by that from weapons and from criticals with high multipliers. Which leaves us with other differences - mainly speed 30 vs 20 at Drake favour.
*Drake max 20 vs Sal 18 STR.

And I still don't get the Ranger. What does he have that other martial classes - comparatively - don't have?

 

[Serus]

(6) HG Ranger is just fun and pretty versatile since you can still whack stuff with a two-hander and 20 STR. But Ranger gets to do this:

View attachment 23884

So I'm always brining one. Half-Sal's pretty good Ranger too.

One more thing. You do not need a Ranger for that. I actually am sure what is the check here but i did it with a Cleric. Yep, true story. It was a zen archer cleric. This is a minor thing anyway. It's not a difficult fight so it has only a flavor value and you already saw the result at least once.

On a side note, how one "learns" if one always does the same thing?

 

[AdolfSatan]

Someone needs to make a "Quest for Roots" module.

What is "Quest for Roots"?

The perilous tale of a man who sacrificed everything to follow his passion in life.

 

[anvi]

The big final chapter battle is still pretty buggy but better since the update. Fun epic battle, I thought it was the end but there is more. Anyone know if you can bring back someone who is unconscious with frailty?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Yosharian]

Jorad seems pretty good to me. Why is his subrace bad? And why can't he get whirlwind?

 

[Serus]

Jorad seems pretty good to me. Why is his subrace bad? And why can't he get whirlwind?

Because a Cloudtop Half-Giant gives up 2 Con to get 4 Dex compared to base = Jorad. Good trade.
Why no Whirlwind? It requires -> mobility -> dodge -> 13 dex. He has base 10 dex and few feats.
Jorad is pretty good,, what makes him only good but not great is, in my opinion, the class not the stats. I find barbarians lacking but they were never good for me in any 3.x game.
I'm a fighter (or even paladin) person not a barbarian or ranger person. In Kotc2 the competition is even fiercer with Gladiators, Samurais or Death Knights.

 

[JarlFrank]

Jorad seems pretty good to me. Why is his subrace bad? And why can't he get whirlwind?

Because a Cloudtop Half-Giant gives up 2 Con to get 4 Dex compared to base = Jorad. Good trade.
Why no Whirlwind? It requires -> mobility -> dodge -> 13 dex. He has base 10 dex and few feats.
Jorad is pretty good,, what makes him only good but not great is, in my opinion, the class not the stats. I find barbarians lacking but they were never good for me in any 3.x game.
I'm a fighter (or even paladin) person not a barbarian or ranger person. In Kotc2 the competition is even fiercer with Gladiators, Samurais or Death Knights.

Get a load of this guy ERYFKRAD

 

[anvi]

"Who hurt you?"