Eternity Josh Sawyer reflects on his failures with Pillars of Eternity

[Desiderius]

Is English not your first language or are you just retarded?

You suck at the game as a game.
Beating it is beside the point.

Retarded it is then.

Self awareness is the first step on the road to sucking less. An inability to grok simple game mechanics and analogies suggests it may be a long one, but just think of how much time you’ll have to enjoy improving, if ever so slowly.

I’ll leave you alone so as not to overtax those modest mental faculties. Ignore.

 

[CappenVarra]

oh josh you're so wacky

(FEMALE_SORCERER_1 voice from IWD2)

 

[Cryomancer]

Larian DOS1/2 : Appeals to the modern game audience which doesn't care about game mechanics and lore being in line and enjoy long and gimmicky fights.
OwlCat PF:KM and PF:WoTR : Appeals to the old school game audience which loves games like those on infinity engine, 80s/90s dungeon crawlers and similar games.
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

When Josh Sawyer said that there are little to no overlap between pillars fanbase and divinity fanbase he was not wrong. Disagree with me? show me one Larian fanboy which is also a OwlCat fanboy

 

[Haplo]

Just because you’ve found the abilities that weren’t (and I’ve found the synergies) doesn’t mean that most abilities weren’t (overbalensed).

But the problem is the way* that they were overbalanced, and finding the I win buttons just makes it worse.

The problem with tic tac toe isn’t that it’s overbalanced, it’s that it’s trivial. Finding one weird trick that lets you take three moves in a row doesn’t change that.

* - too few angles of attack/dimensions you can affect/ways you can affect them

If it were just 1-3 combos that work to discover in a sea of blandness, I might be inclined to agree.
But there are amazing and quite often unexpected synergies all over the place. Many combos I would not expect to be good in fact work great.

 

[Desiderius]

Just because you’ve found the abilities that weren’t (and I’ve found the synergies) doesn’t mean that most abilities weren’t (overbalensed).

But the problem is the way* that they were overbalanced, and finding the I win buttons just makes it worse.

The problem with tic tac toe isn’t that it’s overbalanced, it’s that it’s trivial. Finding one weird trick that lets you take three moves in a row doesn’t change that.

* - too few angles of attack/dimensions you can affect/ways you can affect them

If it were just 1-3 combos that work to discover in a sea of blandness, I might be inclined to agree.
But there are amazing and quite often unexpected synergies all over the place. Many combos I would not expect to be good in fact work great.

Work in the same narrow way and to do the same narrow thing. Once you’ve effortlessly blown out a combat or three things get boring. Games where you can offer a wide variety of angles of attack - and have to - are more interesting.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

Yes, this observation has been made multiple times over the years. Like I said, they attempted to capture the casual audience with a game built on grognards' kickstarter funds. While there is a way to configure the game to be enjoyable for a subsection of grognards, on the whole Obsidian lost both audience groups.

 

[Desiderius]

It sold better than that didn’t it?

Moral of the story: recreate the experience you loved and share it (bridging the supposed casual/grognard gap), don’t try to condescend to those you imagine incapable of your own brilliance.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It sold better than that didn’t it?

Around $9 million investment, around 1 million copies sold.

 

[almondblight]

Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

If people liked the IE games, more power too them, but let's not pretend the combat was well implemented. If this trend continues, we'll have people on here 10 years from now calling themselves "grognards" for liking Fallout 3's combat.

 

[Iskramor]

So josh rpg is basically 3d darklands?

 

[Immortal]

So josh rpg is basically 3d darklands?

He was talking about some American Western game where you take rollercoasters through hellish dimensions or something..?
I think Nuu-Josh would probably have you fighting drumpf on a hipster bicycle.

 

[the mole]

Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

If people liked the IE games, more power too them, but let's not pretend the combat was well implemented. If this trend continues, we'll have people on here 10 years from now calling themselves "grognards" for liking Fallout 3's combat.

in fallout 3 your damage increases as you increase your skills

sounds like an rpg to me

 

[the mole]

if we take what haplo says to be true, then how do we explain the blandness and tediousness of combat in pillars games?

you're old and it's time to give up on gaming

forever

 

[Ismaul]

I feel like popping moles.

They make a really satisfying sound when they die in Fallout, don't they?

 

[the mole]

I feel like popping moles.

They make a really satisfying sound when they die in Fallout, don't they?

I play with sound off

 

[vibehunter]

Larian DOS1/2 : Appeals to the modern game audience which doesn't care about game mechanics and lore being in line and enjoy long and gimmicky fights.
OwlCat PF:KM and PF:WoTR : Appeals to the old school game audience which loves games like those on infinity engine, 80s/90s dungeon crawlers and similar games.
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

When Josh Sawyer said that there are little to no overlap between pillars fanbase and divinity fanbase he was not wrong. Disagree with me? show me one Larian fanboy which is also a OwlCat fanboy

I enjoyed DOS2. And I'm enjoying PF:KM right now. Come at me.

I hate Pillars though.

 

[Desiderius]

Larian DOS1/2 : Appeals to the modern game audience which doesn't care about game mechanics and lore being in line and enjoy long and gimmicky fights.
OwlCat PF:KM and PF:WoTR : Appeals to the old school game audience which loves games like those on infinity engine, 80s/90s dungeon crawlers and similar games.
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

When Josh Sawyer said that there are little to no overlap between pillars fanbase and divinity fanbase he was not wrong. Disagree with me? show me one Larian fanboy which is also a OwlCat fanboy

I enjoyed DOS2. And I'm enjoying PF:KM right now. Come at me.

I hate Pillars though.

I like all three, but PF is just on another level, and Wrath on another level still.

 

[fork]

The Codexian perspective is to hate all three.

 

[Drowed]

Spoiler

Larian DOS1/2 : Appeals to the modern game audience which doesn't care about game mechanics and lore being in line and enjoy long and gimmicky fights.
OwlCat PF:KM and PF:WoTR : Appeals to the old school game audience which loves games like those on infinity engine, 80s/90s dungeon crawlers and similar games.
Obsidian Pillars of Eternity 1/2 : Too much old school for the "modernfags" and too much modern for "grognards"

When Josh Sawyer said that there are little to no overlap between pillars fanbase and divinity fanbase he was not wrong. Disagree with me? show me one Larian fanboy which is also a OwlCat fanboy

I enjoyed DOS2. And I'm enjoying PF:KM right now. Come at me.

I hate Pillars though.

I like all three, but PF is just on another level, and Wrath on another level still.

Same, except that I didn't like POE2, but liked the first one. Maybe my opinion will change in the next replay.

 

[Desiderius]

The last patch or whatever for Deadfire added a lot. You can also sneak past the Digsite Drake and if you enter Gorecci from the bottom that fight makes more sense.

 

[Cryomancer]

Around $9 million investment, around 1 million copies sold.

Any source about it? I mean, I heard that poe2 sold poorly but din't imagine that was THAT bad

 

[Haplo]

The last patch or whatever for Deadfire added a lot. You can also sneak past the Digsite Drake and if you enter Gorecci from the bottom that fight makes more sense.

I think that was always the case.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Around $9 million investment, around 1 million copies sold.

Any source about it? I mean, I heard that poe2 sold poorly but din't imagine that was THAT bad

40$ a unit, not counting discounts nor expensive bundles, they probably balance each other.
40M - 9M investment.

31M$ - 30/40% steam fees = 19/22M before taxes.

What a failure indeed.

 

[Desiderius]

Your math is pretty optimistic but still... can't imagine they lost money.

 

[Cryomancer]

40$ a unit, not counting discounts nor expensive bundles, they probably balance each other.
40M - 9M investment.

31M$ - 30/40% steam fees = 19/22M before taxes.

What a failure indeed.

Not everyone payed on USD. Some people payed on Russian, Argentine, Indian currency...