Josh Sawyer Q&A Thread

[Cross]

Time permitting, I would be more likely to work with writers to conceive companions collaboratively, as we did on Deadfire.

An astounding success, eh?

Why would you blame Deadfire's failure on that? PoE suffered from lackluster companions too, and Sawyer was entirely responsible for coming up with their concepts and character arcs (except for Durance and the Grieving Mother) just like he did for New Vegas' companions. Half the companions in Deadfire are returning characters from PoE to begin with.

Ideally, the writers should be more involved in the conceptual phase.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Time permitting, I would be more likely to work with writers to conceive companions collaboratively, as we did on Deadfire.

An astounding success, eh?

Why would you blame Deadfire's failure on that? PoE suffered from lackluster companions too, and Sawyer was entirely responsible for coming up with their concepts and character arcs (except for Durance and the Grieving Mother) just like he did for New Vegas' companions. Half the companions in Deadfire are returning characters from PoE to begin with.

Eder is all the companion anyone needs

 

[Fairfax]

Poor man. He really doesn't grok or much care for the IE games, does he? Working against other people's imagined expectations of them, rather than his own passion or vision.

Called it:

Sep 15, 2018 at 9:28 PM - @Fairfax: Roguey: I'm sure Cunta still thinks Josh is the greatest, he just assumes the guy's being forced to make such games.

Time permitting, I would be more likely to work with writers to conceive companions collaboratively, as we did on Deadfire.

An astounding success, eh?

Why would you blame Deadfire's failure on that? PoE suffered from lackluster companions too, and Sawyer was entirely responsible for coming up with their concepts and character arcs (except for Durance and the Grieving Mother) just like he did for New Vegas' companions. Half the companions in Deadfire are returning characters from PoE to begin with.

Ideally, the writers should be more involved in the conceptual phase.

I didn't. I was referring to the collaborative work on the companions. If he had a bigger influence on Deadfire's companions and that was the result, that's a great argument against that approach. Yet Sawyer seems to look at Deadfire's companions and think "yes, I should do more of that".

 

[Sentinel]

I don’t think I will ever get the chance to, but I’m grateful both to the original team and to the fans for making F:NV the best game I’ve had the good fortune to be involved with.

damn, feel bad for the fella.

 

[Siveon]

Seems to me Obsidian is at their best (or at least Josh is) when working with IPs. Considering there's plenty of IPs out there that fit the RPG bill I think they should look more towards that than more Pillars.

 

[Roguey]

I can occasionally be overruled at the owner level, and while that happened more on Pillars/Deadfire than on F:NV,

Other than full VA for Deadfire, wonder what those were.

 

[Rev]

An astounding success, eh?

Yeah, he should just design everything himself as in NV. The collaborative approach could also work if he had better writers in the team maybe, less so with current Obsidian.

 

[Fairfax]

I can occasionally be overruled at the owner level, and while that happened more on Pillars/Deadfire than on F:NV,

Other than full VA for Deadfire, wonder what those were.

Perhaps the number of classes in PoE. MCA once said he had to push for the Cipher to be added. Wouldn't be surprised if Sawyer was against going from 5 to 11 classes during the Kickstarter. Splitting the expansion in half could be another case.

Yeah, he should just design everything himself as in NV.

Like Arcade and Pallegina? No, thanks.

His choices for companions in FNV were also weak.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Perhaps the number of classes in PoE. MCA once said he had to push for the Cipher to be added. Wouldn't be surprised if Sawyer was against going from 5 to 11 classes during the Kickstarter. Splitting the expansion in half could be another case.

To clarify, when I pushed for a Cipher it was to ask for something unique to the Pillars world instead of another generic fantasy class that Josh was proposing at the time (I forget what it was other than it felt like something that could be in any generic fantasy game) - it was a request to at least consider something else that was tied to the world.

It wasn't an addition, it was a replacement - I wasn't in favor of adding any more classes at all (I prefer classless anyway).

Also, the Cipher request wasn't a mandate, I only asked that a souls-oriented class be at least considered (Josh came up with what a Cipher actually was, not me).

 

[Rev]

Like Arcade and Pallegina? No, thanks.

His choices for companions in FNV were also weak.

Those are the ones he also wrote, I was referring to the method he used in NV (designing the concept of each companions, then let others write them), which at least in NV turned out better than it did in PoE 1 and 2.
Of course, NV turned out so well also because the rest of the team was good too, but since Obsidian's current writers aren't as good as they used to be maybe it's best if they have some specific concepts to work on, instead of making it up themselves.

 

[Fairfax]

Perhaps the number of classes in PoE. MCA once said he had to push for the Cipher to be added. Wouldn't be surprised if Sawyer was against going from 5 to 11 classes during the Kickstarter. Splitting the expansion in half could be another case.

To clarify, when I pushed for a Cipher it was to ask for something unique to the Pillars world instead of another generic fantasy class that Josh was proposing at the time (I forget what it was other than it felt like something that could be in any generic fantasy game) - it was a request to at least consider something else that was tied to the world.

It wasn't an addition, it was a replacement - I wasn't in favor of adding any more classes at all (I prefer classless anyway).

Also, the Cipher request wasn't a mandate, I only asked that a souls-oriented class be at least considered (Josh came up with what a Cipher actually was, not me).

I see. Were the 6 classes as stretch goals ordered Feargus or did they come from the team?

Like Arcade and Pallegina? No, thanks.

His choices for companions in FNV were also weak.

Those are the ones he also wrote, I was referring to the method he used in NV (designing the concept of each companions, then let others write them), which at least in NV turned out better than it did in PoE 1 and 2.
Of course, NV turned out so well also because the rest of the team was good too, but since Obsidian's current writers aren't as good as they used to be maybe it's best if they have some specific concepts to work on, instead of making it up themselves.

Right, but Sawyer said he worked with them to conceive the companions. He even said they still followed MCA's guidelines for companion design. As far as concepts go, I'd say they did follow most of it, but the execution was terrible.

Tyranny did have better companions than Deadfire, but two of its writers have left the company, so I guess there's no solution there either.

 

[Rev]

Tyranny did have better companions than Deadfire, but two of its writers have left the company, so I guess there's no solution there either.

Yeah it's true, but Tyranny's companions weren't that good either tbh. Only Sirin was somewhat memorable.
The fact that Deadfire's companions are worse speak volumes about Obsidian's current writers, sadly.

 

[HoboForEternity]

i think they aren't bad. they are okay-ish. nothing really stand out. the whole thing about deadfire is it feel so . . .sterile. previous obsidian game from KOTOR 2 to new vegas even alpha protocol had something about them. something fresh.

 

[Prime Junta]

i think they aren't bad. they are okay-ish. nothing really stand out. the whole thing about deadfire is it feel so . . .sterile. previous obsidian game from KOTOR 2 to new vegas even alpha protocol had something about them. something fresh.

I dunno if I'd use the word "sterile" exactly. More like safe paint-by-the-numbers. The only whiff of genuine passion I got from there was with the setting -- Josh's history geekdom rearing its head.

It's like they were asking themselves "what do our fans want?" rather than "what do we want to make?" and the two questions were at odds a lot of the time. Great things only really happen when "what we want to make" comes first, and fortuitously happens to align with "what our fans want."

 

[santino27]

I like history as much as the next person, but I feel like Josh's special history-focused kind of autism makes for a weak influence on games, especially in a world being built from scratch. Either all the interesting stuff happens before the game (so it can be part of the history he has spent so much energy and time on) or the world and its history feel more analytical and academic than a living thing with myths, fables, and tragedies. I assume the latter is because that's how he parses things, but I may just be projecting.

 

[Sizzle]

I like history as much as the next person, but I feel like Josh's special history-focused kind of autism makes for a weak influence on games, especially in a world being built from scratch. Either all the interesting stuff happens before the game (so it can be part of the history he has spent so much energy and time on) or the world and its history feel more analytical and academic than a living thing with myths, fables, and tragedies. I assume the latter is because that's how he parses things, but I may just be projecting.

I feel it's down to what actually makes it into the game. And by that, I don't mean history books littered around the gameworld, but actual characters, quests, and situations that take advantage of them. In PoE1, the Dyrwood is a post-revolutionary country that only recently gained its independence, and is still struggling with problems (not just the Hollowborn), such as racial tensions and an uneasy truce with tribes of savages they already warred with twice. But little of that matters ingame - it's just background fluff, very rarely well-integrated.

And then you read some random explanations about the history and culture of the region he wrote but never included in the game, and you think - this actually sounds interesting, so why didn't he use any of it as a set up for some quests like that? It's frustrating, because you see they made an effort to create something that had the potential to be refreshing and uncommon, and then they realized they shouldn't make it too weird, so they pussied out at the last moment and reverted to generic quasi-European fantasy.

Similarly, Dragon Age also had interesting bits of lore, but the game itself was mostly by-the-numbers high fantasy.

 

[Infinitron]

I always assumed it was less about them pussying out and more about the lore creator and the quest designers not being on the same page. Meaning that while Josh was fleshing out the lore the quest designers had already begun producing content, so they couldn't take full advantage of it.

It's not just "weird stuff", there are also fairly normal (but still compelling) things in PoE's lore that mysteriously never become the subject of a quest or encounter etc. This might not be as much the case in PoE2 though.

Fallout: New Vegas was really good at this IMO, the quest designers identified the compelling parts of the setting and actually made use of them.

 

[Sizzle]

We definitely know they weren't on the same page when it came to certain things (like them not understanding what Ciphers are), but it's doubtful Sawyer didn't explain at least the basics of the setting (apart from soul powah!) to them before they started working on quests.

Dyrwood is basically post-revolutionary war America, there were lots of cool things that could have been done with that premise.

 

[Infinitron]

Josh is on a roll today:

 

[2house2fly]

I always presumed Ulysses took the place of another character who would have been the "legendary figure" you followed in the DLC. Seems like Ulysses in-game was just a Legion agent who'd end up supporting whoever you went with. But then I don't know when exactly he was cut, except that it was before they recorded the VO for the game

 

[Infinitron]

Brilliant!

 

[2house2fly]

If I had to guess, Chris Avellone saw people being annoyed at getting poisoned by cazadores and decided that a good gameplay reward for the DLC would be no longer having to be annoyed by it

 

[Sentinel]

He instead decided to annoy people by bloating the fuck out of enemy HP numbers on higher difficulties and not providing certain types of ammo in the DLC.

 

[RNGsus]

Josh is on a roll today:

HH was the better one.

Correction: Deadmoney was. I thought HH was the hiest.

 

[Fairfax]

If I had to guess, Chris Avellone saw people being annoyed at getting poisoned by cazadores and decided that a good gameplay reward for the DLC would be no longer having to be annoyed by it

He didn't like them either.



Also, Heartless is an optional perk, so players can still get poisoned if they want.