Vapourware Greed Monger Insider Thread (drama inside)

[GM_JamesPro]

I remember how angry I was while our Kickstarter failed and one of the reasons was because GreedMonger started a few days after us their campaign.
It was like "We need 60 000£ to finish the fully playable Alpha version of Gloria Victis" when GreedMonger was "We need 30 000$ to finish the game with Estimated delivery: Apr 2013 of the in game rewards (6 months)"

Of course we'v failed to gain this money than while GM gained 3 times more, and (from what I'v heard) another 3 times more from their website.

Where are we now? Have not given up on thegame, which is available to play 24/7 for nearly 2 years now, nearly without budget at all. Of course everything goes a bit slowly since our team is really small and our budget is based only on our website donations but we have updates two times a week most of the time.
Just took out NDA and going to roll into Steam and Alpha (we call it Pre-Alpha to make sure no one will feel misslead its a fully playable game already - its not, but we are doing our best everyday to make it done as fast and polished as possible) which will help us to expand the team and keep things rolling faster

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=225671457


Why I am telling this? For a few reasons.

First of all - Everyone who have finished any game was like 100% sure it won't work for Greed Monger just because of using 100% faked movies and missleading informations from totally beginning.
Shit happens and will happen untill people will start doing something against people who don't have even a bit of respect to them to at least send the T-shirts they paid for, which are lying in the garage for 2 years now.

Second of all - Respect to you James for keeping it that long. Still, I hope you know its impossible to be a only coder in MMO team. When you will have thousand of players logging on every day you will need another coder just for debugging and preparing to fix the hundreds of small bugs every week. I know you have learned much on GM and it will help you in your futher projects. Diamonds are formed under pressure

And at the end - projects like this can be successfull. There are already a few really cool projects which were sentenced to loss from the beggining just by making MMO.

Gloria Victis is one of them, but I would really recommend checking The Repopulation or Life is Feudal (not MMO at this moment, but later will be) also - we are all far from final releases, but all of those games are playable at this moment with a stable and great community/playerbase.

Community/Playerbase is something that gives us strength to work everyday on something really, really hard to accomplish. As a lead I need to be aware of everything that happens in another projects, and I'v been watching GM closely - in my opinion if there would be at least a bit more communication and respect from Jason (who's been paid by those people to create this game and as a leader he's the only responsible to deliver it) the things could happen other way. Half of our team was recruited from our community and are great co-workers now.

Meanwhile, if there are any Greed Monger, Embers of Caerus or another MMORPG Kickstarters backers who never were delivered at least partially what they paid for please contact me via support@gloriavictisgame.com with showing some proof you did this. I will gladly send you invitation into the Gloria Victis hoping that you won't loose believe in Indie Developers.

James - if you will need to talk or any help feel free to contact me via skype. Login is same as my forum nick.

Thanks... I KNOW I'll succeed with my future Projects. I've got a great Business Partner who knows a heck of a lot more about running a Business then I do and I've got Huge support from the community which is always helpful. Joel, my business partner, and I have a history of being able to put together decent teams we just never had the funding needed to succeed. We have plans to make sure that GM's backers get something in our Game. The Details though are still being worked out.

As for your comment about GM's KS Videos being 100% fake... I'm really at a loss to why people think that... I'm personally the one who did a ton of the work for those Videos... So how people can say they are fake is beyond me... Did they contain networking and everything heck no... At the time we hadn't even settled on what we were going to use for the Networking... But they were not Fake... They were not just Demo Scenes that came with some of the asset packages we bought. We actually had to put work into creating them.

 

[Jogobogos]

Kickstarter movie was bassicly full of asset store packs using only a basic controller. 200$ and 2 hours of work to get it all done - gimme those assets and I will do that in this time even I wasn't doing any level design in my live, but please don't take it personal.

And honestly, in my opinion videos of MMO recorded without any Networking are 80% fake. Just because networking and its polishing is 80% of work you need to do on MMO.

 

[Derium]

Heya all. Derium here, I'm an ex-Community Manager of Greed Monger. I left a while ago because of the shady shit Jason did, and how he loved to butt heads with people who have an opinion. If you want a quick 5 minute wrap up of this, let me know the glaring details that I missed on this. I'll make follow up videos as this shit unfolds.

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[DarKPenguiN]

/salute

Whichever one of you deviants did this ?...

 

[Derium]

Thanks for posting that, my post is awaiting Moderation.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

Kevin, when you get a chance add me on Skype roh_james... got some things to discuss with you...

 

[Derium]

/salute

Whichever one of you deviants did this ?...

<3 It needed to be done.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Thanks for posting that, my post is awaiting Moderation.

Yeah the staff around ...jeeshhhh...

=P

Wow- Video was awesome man. Hell of a job

 

[Derium]

Thanks for posting that, my post is awaiting Moderation.

Yeah the staff around ...jeeshhhh...

=P

Wow- Video was awesome man. Hell of a job

I was their community manager, I know how to bring people together... For better, or worse

 

[Angthoron]

Yeah the staff around ...jeeshhhh...

Shut up or I'll sue you.

Heya all. Derium here, I'm an ex-Community Manager of Greed Monger. I left a while ago because of the shady shit Jason did, and how he loved to butt heads with people who have an opinion. If you want a quick 5 minute wrap up of this, let me know the glaring details that I missed on this. I'll make follow up videos as this shit unfolds.

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Awesome video, man. And a nice shelf.

 

[Xenich]

Awesome video, man. And a nice shelf.

Uhgg! Consoles!!!, that aside it is a rather nice collection.

 

[Derium]

I unstickied every post in the General forums on the Greed Monger site. Then I stickied just this post. Jason can't hide forever.

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[DarKPenguiN]

Yup. James isnt there to take the heat and someone has too... That screenshot...Is a thing of beauty.

 

[Scroo]

Really great Video, Derium I'm looking forward to the next ones. Jason's list of jobs he is doing or thinks he is doing or whatever says a lot about him I guess.

Oh and do I see not only one, but TWO WiiU boxes on top of that shelf? Jealous

 

[Jools]

Half done in 2 days, month to finish sounds normal to me. Last 10% always takes 90% of the time.

Its always the micro issues that get ya.

And that's what SHE said.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

-Word on the street is that Appleton is GIVING away the company. I hope KS backers are made privy to any legal documents and assurance that Appleton is receiving no money and is gone...

Jason- You come back to the interweb wanting cash and unleashing one of your brilliant schemes on any community I am part of or that I run across. This all comes back but far worse... You nodded out at a good time coward and I'm not sure what James thinks about your bashing of him on your forum but... Jason, dont forget. The internet never forgets and in a split second all this drama could return along with other drama that you ran away like a bitch in the nick of time to avoid.

Now go dream up the next scheme of yours while fucking someones wife. Its just a matter of time jason. You have karmetic debt that will be paid- You're very lucky you exited when you did.If it turns out you are in any way connected to or monetarily benefiting from this company- You are both sunk. If you are not and this is legit, they need to take care ofthe backers and they have alot to prove... And we will find out Jason.

Goodbye asshole

Sincerely,
The Internet

Add- The information can be found at the official greed monger website...I amjust not calling this 100% legiit sinced Jason obviously has no security and probably every former team member has passwords. Could be someone saying it under appletons name for the lulz.

Im sure confirmation is coming soon.

 

[Krraloth]

Mr. Penguin, you seem to have had a lot of fun digging this up, do you still have endorphines running around your brain or have they already subsided at the thought of having to give up precious months of swinging activities?
I have to say that you paid a price of celibacy for what is right and for that you have my respect.

James, I really hope you'll get something good out of this, if anything, the awareness that there are better people around than your uh, quasi ex-boss.
Yes, even here.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Mr. Penguin, you seem to have had a lot of fun digging this up, do you still have endorphines running around your brain or have they already subsided at the thought of having to give up precious months of swinging activities?
I have to say that you paid a price of celibacy for what is right and for that you have my respect.

James, I really hope you'll get something good out of this, if anything, the awareness that there are better people around than your uh, quasi ex-boss.
Yes, even here.

Nah- Im not giving up swinging. Just staying the fuck out of Ohio... Not even flying over that motherfucker.

Concerning endorphin's- No,they are mostly gone. Drugs should replace them. If not I will be making a callout thread to drug supplier.

And yes...T'was fun. exhausting but fun... been 3 years in the making , this. Timing was important... It did not at all go as planned as fizzled before the

-And was a bit anti-climatic... But, my work here may be done. We will see.

Now for a hooker or two and a glass of scotch

I will be lurking while shes under the table. Then its time for bed.

/thread

-probably

 

[gestalt11]

Maybe, someone can explain this to me because I don't really get the plausibility here.

So I am a software devloper irl, 10+ years into my career, my per year salary (before taxes ) is greater than what was raised for this entire game. And other devs in my area (one of the top 4 software employment ares in the USA) who might be called "Leads" can get higher depending on various factors. This is outside the gaming industry which, IMO, can be rather um whacked.

You couldn't even hire two of me for 6 months with with $100k.

An MMORPG deals with almost all of the majorly hard areas of Computer Science; networking, concurrent programming, DB stuff, graphics etc. Graphics alone is one of the only parts of Computer Science you actually need to use the serious math (geometry/calculus) you take in bachelor's programs. Most Comp Sci is fairly straight forward discrete math.

Could two of me make an MMORPG? Yes I could, a lot of programmer would fail even real professionals, but I have a pretty good idea of what I would do and its not just a lot of stuff. Its a huge testing endeavors, very complex requiring either tons of man power to really good forethought and smart isolations. But it would take two of me a whole lot more than 6 months and while it would technically work all the models would look like complete crap because I suck as a visual artist.

Now that is all well and good maybe people thought you can get a lot more junior guys in a non-top market for like the equivalent of 30k a year. That would still only be 6-7 guys. And those junior guys are gonna make a huge disorganized mess and also just plain waste tons of money and time with mistakes (no their fault that is what experience is for and why its worth more money) without some sort of senior programmer setting some standards, making some key decisions, and the testing would be a huge nightmare.

I vaguely remember hearing of this thing and as soon as I saw the numbers I dismissed it out of hand.

I backed Wasteland 2 I put enough money down to have my name in the credits etc. Wasteland was a great game when I was younger. Brian Fargo is an established pro. If the KS for wasteland 2 had been $50k I still would have passed and not backed it. Even at $200k I would have been leary. And I am just talking stated goal not actual amount raised.

Why did anyone believe this KS enough to ever get any traction? Was it because Appleton said he had other money and servers etc? I just don't really get it.

 

[Krraloth]

You ddi seem to have a good grasp of human psychology when you wrote about Appleton's issue, so I'm sure you just didn't think of this for some weird reason, but IMO hope still seems to be the only logical conclusion.

What Greed Monger promised whas something that the backers really, really wanted to play.
I am not sure how long you've lurked on the Codex or if you just popped here because of this thread but if you read a bit and ask around in these parts you'll see people who joined after being disillusioned by their favourite franchise or, in cases like mine, started to question why I was the only one seeing what absurd piece of shit Oblivion was and how come wherever I go people just don't see it.
The answer I stumbled upon at that time is something I've been positively reinforced in believing by all the things I've read in this forum: people will hope and when that hope is dashed will either defend the recipent of said trust beyond reason or just abandon the whole thing.

 

[gestalt11]

You ddi seem to have a good grasp of human psychology when you wrote about Appleton's issue, so I'm sure you just didn't think of this for some weird reason, but IMO hope still seems to be the only logical conclusion.

What Greed Monger promised whas something that the backers really, really wanted to play.
I am not sure how long you've lurked on the Codex or if you just popped here because of this thread but if you read a bit and ask around in these parts you'll see people who joined after being disillusioned by their favourite franchise or, in cases like mine, started to question why I was the only one seeing what absurd piece of shit Oblivion was and how come wherever I go people just don't see it.
The answer I stumbled upon at that time is something I've been positively reinforced in believing by all the things I've read in this forum: people will hope and when that hope is dashed will either defend the recipent of said trust beyond reason or just abandon the whole thing.

Yeah that is kind of what I figured. But since there are some people who did in fact contribute I wanted to see what it might be "straight from the horse's mouth" so to speak.

The "con" in a con job is confidence. Most of the work is done my the mark really.

But this one just seems so damn obvious .... its like selling 2+2=10.

Its all a matter of degrees, we are all susceptible to these things. If one thinks they aren't then they are probably the mark.

As for the hope is dashed part that is about investment. Some people not only can't stop themselves from throwing good money after bad, they think its a smart investment move to do. No its the classic and common bad investment move. The ones who abandon such a thing are wise, the other are being foolish but that is common and you can see many many smart people make this mistake over and over. I asked my brother and his wife this exact same question when his wife said (as an employee in Illinois ) "I'd be fine with putting more money in the pension to turn it around so it won't go bankrupt". So I asked "You want to throw good money after bad in the most corrupt area in the USA that has been historically corrupt for over a century". She was flabergasted, it just stunned her, not because it was mean but because it was just so obvious, was a standard and known bad pattern, and the argument was not framed in the typical canned political bullshit. She had no answer but still is probably gonna hold onto the idea that some bankrupt entity will somehow magically produce stuff doesn't have. And she's an accomplished engineer who can do the math and knows what the politicians over there are like, she actually testifies in committees in front of them, which is how that conversation got starter; she was complaining they ignore all the real problems. Wise play is to leave the table and accept your losses, but they can't bring themselves to do it.

There are actually not that many people who are mentally equipped to simply get up and leave when faced with having invested a lot of resources (emotion, time,money,etc) in something. They latch onto it and ride that broncho until it dies.


But I am specifically wondering why anyone would invest in the first place. But then again people are constantly thinking they can win at 3 card monty as well. Sure some people are naive, but a number of people do stuff like that repeatedly. I know it happens but I still can't quite empathize with it. They know fire is hot and it burns. Then they do it again. Its some kind of cognitive dissonance. Sometimes you ask them and they even tell you that they know but did it anyway.

There are a lot of KS things out there, many do not raise 90K and have much more reasonable goals. I am willing to believe there are enough suckers out there to pony up $100k but given the context why was this one so good at catching suckers? Maybe its the venue? Maybe people who want certain sorts of MMORPGs are so desparate they have made themselves into suckers? I dunno. When you look at some SWG vets this seems plausible ...

 

[Ranselknulf]

I think it's just people don't realize the difference in price tag between an offline or even small multiplayer game versus a full on MMO.

It's all that behind the scenes technobabble wizardry stuff that most people just ignore because they just want to play the game.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Well- We will see. Looks like Appleton did (or is) really giving the company away. Now at least the backers should have some relief that there may be a game here in the future since they seem legit.

Honestly, I wish them the best of luck. There is a good idea here and there was a very supportive community behind it. If these people can get past the initial bad rep of GM and are given some time- Maybe they can pull this off. I suspect they have a mess to wade through trying to get anything in a playable state.

I'm sure more information will be forthcoming but from the little bit I have seen I would suspect that their intentions are to make this game thats been in perpetual stasis and make some coin doing it- Everyone wins. Or they try and fail- But at least they try.

This GM disaster has went on for 3 years. If we had some real gaming journalists SOMEONE would have done a recap and demanded some answers. This community has been left to take care of itself... The gaming press and websites will help hype this shit but never call someone out when it NEEDS to happen.

Markee Dragon should have recapped this disaster. Websites that initially allowed promotion of this to their community SHOULD have done a recap 3 years later about this disaster.

Im just glad this shit looks like its over.

Thank you Codex for allowing real discussion. You're all fags but...

 

[The_whistleblower]

Sorry but handing it over to a small team with no game experience that I could locate is not problem over

 

[Derium]

Just a quick update >_<

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