Vapourware Greed Monger Insider Thread (drama inside)

[Norfleet]

If they were operating the same as before they founded, sure. But normally it's not operating in that manner. Because operating a business and dealing with everything that comes with that, it s TON different than doing your work.

Precisely. So at first, you're just doing work, you and maybe your two or three friends. At some point your work expands beyond the scope of what you or your founding partners can handle. Money becomes involved. Employees must be hired, debts incurred. A proprietorship or partnership no longer provides sufficient legal protection. Now you need a corporation. You consult a lawyer and start the process. This quite easily explains the gap between when they declared themselves to exist and when your paperwork indicates they incorporated themselves. It's very unlikely that a bunch of indie developers, perhaps ONE indie developer, immediately set out to create a corporation without having DONE anything. Getting legal advice and filing things costs time and money, and generally falls outside the area of what developers do.

Now, as people here know, I'm a pretty paranoid guy, but I don't see anything particularly deceptive or unusual about a year's gap between their declared founding date and the time their paperwork was filed. You should also note that while their paperwork was filed in 2010, their domain didn't actually exist until 2013, so it took them another 3 years AFTER filing legal paperwork to decide they warranted an online presence. Again, nothing unusual. If anything, given that they were a corporation before they bothered to appear online, should be seen as a somewhat safer thing, because it means they were organized and structured before actually appearing on the scene.

 

[The_whistleblower]

I think I called this few days ago from rumors.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

I think I called this few days ago from rumors.

No. This wasnt pre planned.
I saw alot of what went on behind the scenes , and I am the one who started the infamous drama- Not for this outcome. Like I said over at mmorpg.com, I'm glad James P is happy. I am not going to stir up shit against James P and MMOI because I know James is going to give his best... Appleton got away by the skin of his teeth.

EDIT_ Concerning Interdiction studio and the filing date- This was just one small part of a pile of weird things, including the fact the "business" was located approx 20 mins from jasons house among other things...It was just a matter of time until alot more was discovered and I think everyone involved here knew the heat was really on.

I'm also OBVIOUSLY bias as fuck. I do not like Appleton because of many reasons and I never disliked james . After this eventful weekend and having communicated with many of the players involved (some who have not appeared publicly) and getting to know James a bit more, I really started to like the guy quite a bit.

I went into this thinking it was an outright scam and based on the logs and such (amongst other things) I think this was just total incompetence and a clusterfuck. I also think the logs have not reflected well on anyone involved here.

IMHO there is alot of money unaccounted for- But I think jason went into this really thinking he would accomplish everything he set out to do (this was surprising to me) and at some point after realization set in , the funds slowed to a trickle and the game was put on life support. This is all I will say atm- Probably forever- because it looks like james has total liability for everything and and those questions are something that no longer concerns me because I am not a backer and jason has found a clever way to exit this entire thing.

I'm not sure what is going to happen now. I am not sure if this is "over" but I am sure there are alot of people scratching their heads right now and saying WTF? I think MMOI just took a monumental task upon themselves with limited staff and limited funds- HOWEVER I feel they took this with good intentions...And now matters are very complicated.

I wont be going after James or MMOI in any way , shape or form. Unless they do something blatantly dishonest which I highly doubt . I wish them luck. Lots of luck.

When anything gets posted about GM on mmorpg.com you wont have to worry about Jax showing up to fuck with you james... But change the name...Please...

 

[jrhager84]

You're exactly right, Penguin. For those who don't know (which is by and large this entire community) I am Joel - I am the other half of MMOI. I've been indirectly involved with certain aspects of GM for years, and directly involved in the events that transpired recently. James and I go way back, and I was hesitant about the GM brand when it was introduced at first. Since then, I've watched James work tirelessly to create a game that he believed in, and will NOT let him take the heat alone. We will finish this. Also, the decision we came to in regards to acquiring GM was made taking a lot of things into consideration:

1. Our priority has always been (and will always be) getting the KS backers what they paid for. Development for the game will continue as planned, and I am taking receipt of the shirts, and will start fulfilling orders out of my own pocket.

2. Our second priority was to ensure that GM was completed, as many people have invested time and money into bringing this idea to life.

3. As honest people, we REFUSE to let GM fail on principle. We are doing everything in our power to facilitate development, even taking certain costs internally as a gesture of good faith.

4. Also - James and I *LOVE* feedback; Even negative feedback. We're *painfully* aware of some of your concerns, but we want you to know that we're listening loud and clear. If you have any issues/concerns/questions/etc., please don't hesitate to email support(at)greedmonger.com, and we'll get you taken care of in the best way we can. Penguin has been one of GM's toughest critics, and we welcome it. He has given us a lot of insight, and a different perspective regarding things. I respect Penguin enormously for taking the time to run us through the wringer. I'd like to hope that after our conversation, Penguin could see that we were VERY committed to completing GM (in whatever namesake it takes moving forward).

I can't stress this enough here. We KNOW that things were mishandled in the past. We KNOW that people are upset and confused. We KNOW that we have to earn peoples' respect. We're also prepared for that. We will not run from this. If it fails, we'll literally be burning into the sea with this ship. The buck now stops with us. As far as Jason is concerned - What's in the past is in the past. I disagree with how certain things have been handled, but I can attest that he's made this transition an easy one (for whatever reason) and we've now got what we need to continue moving forward. I think the best course of action is to look to the future, and see how we handle ourselves moving forward. I think you'll find a very different GM experience. ;-)

-Joel

 

[Angthoron]

Guys, how do you expect to fund the development and launch of this? Do you have any plans regarding this? Considering you've now 100% lost the "50K's worth of server equipment", I imagine you need a publisher or some sort of investments.

 

[Scroo]

Now that's an interesting turn of events. Imho this was a bad idea.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Ready for the biggest twist yet?

Spoiler

Im actually a parrot.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Ready for the biggest twist yet?

Spoiler

Im actually a parrot.

Spoiler

 

[jrhager84]

Now that's an interesting turn of events. Imho this was a bad idea.

I don't think it's any worse than allowing hundreds of backers to be empty-handed.

 

[jrhager84]

Guys, how do you expect to fund the development and launch of this? Do you have any plans regarding this? Considering you've now 100% lost the "50K's worth of server equipment", I imagine you need a publisher or some sort of investments.

We actually hadn't been using that server tech for a while, considering it was older tech, and due to the limitations, we had to move elsewhere. We're also brokering some deals that would help us acquire additional funding without having to take any more money from the public. Again, our commitment is to get this game out, and that's what we plan to do. Everything we're doing is in direct correlation to us continuing an aggressive development schedule to get product into backers' hands.

 

[Norfleet]

4. Also - James and I *LOVE* feedback; Even negative feedback. We're *painfully* aware of some of your concerns, but we want you to know that we're listening loud and clear.

Negative feedback is the best feedback. Positive feedback is actually worthless, nothing more than an ego-boosting echo chamber. Negative feedback is actionable information, something you can directly use to fix the problem. I tell my users to provide only negative feedback, and that positive feedback can be provided by pushing this button (which plays a bleating noise in response). If you can't be bothered to come up with a legitimate complaint, I can't be bothered to pay attention to what you have to say.

 

[Ranselknulf]

There is such a thing about mixed feedback as well though norfleet.

Some ideas can have good aspects but need tweaking. Separating the good and the bad can help refine those features.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

Positive Feed Back helps to let us know that we are taking things in the right direction and it's always nice to read that your community loves what your doing. It's a moral boost for the team.

 

[Norfleet]

There is such a thing about mixed feedback as well though norfleet.

Mixed feedback is just negative feedback mixed with mindless prattle. You filter out the useless cruft and focus on the actual complaint. Because positive feedback isn't really feedback, it's just ego-stroking prattle of no practical utility.

 

[Delterius]

Finally got around reading this whole thread and I am utterly disgusted at Appleton's linking to Gamespot's Dragon Age: Inquisition review.

Beautiful thread DarKPenguiN, I'm looking forward to the next time you imprint on some hapless project, much the same way I dread the day Roguey gets tired of her significant other. Speaking of which, while this is not quite up there, this thread should definitely be enshrined in Retardo. Especially since it may yet keep giving. While it is especially quaint how every single person, myself included, can only barely understand the proceedings of Appleton's Saga; my favorite part was scrolling down from Derium's second video only to see that the 'Deal' broke down almost immediately.

For the moment though, best wishes to James. Seriously, good luck.

 

[GM_JamesPro]

Finally got around reading this whole thread and I am utterly disgusted at Appleton's linking to Gamespot's Dragon Age: Inquisition review.

Beautiful thread DarKPenguiN, I'm looking forward to the next time you imprint on some hapless project, much the same way I dread the day Roguey gets tired of her significant other. Speaking of which, while this is not quite up there, this thread should definitely be enshrined in Retardo. Especially since it may yet keep giving. While it is especially quaint how every single person, myself included, can only barely understand the proceedings of Appleton's Saga; my favorite part was scrolling down from Derium's second video only to see that the 'Deal' broke down almost immediately.

For the moment though, best wishes to James. Seriously, good luck.

Thanks... This is a huge task. But it's a task MMO Interactive is willing to under take and do our very best to succeed at. The Support from the GM Community and the general MMO Community has been out standing and we will do the very best we can to continue to deserve the support and perhaps even gain some of the Support GM has lost over the years.

 

[Angthoron]

Enshrining in Retardo is a great idea, but it's not :incloosive: enough, outsiders and newbies will never be able to hear this cautionary tale.

I propose it to be pinned in MMO, this subforum needs its own history.

 

[Cyberarmy]

And I read it all at work, that's how "fun" my job is right now...

 

[Hoodoo]

Lol

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Finally got around reading this whole thread and I am utterly disgusted at Appleton's linking to Gamespot's Dragon Age: Inquisition review.

Beautiful thread DarKPenguiN, I'm looking forward to the next time you imprint on some hapless project, much the same way I dread the day Roguey gets tired of her significant other. Speaking of which, while this is not quite up there, this thread should definitely be enshrined in Retardo. Especially since it may yet keep giving. While it is especially quaint how every single person, myself included, can only barely understand the proceedings of Appleton's Saga; my favorite part was scrolling down from Derium's second video only to see that the 'Deal' broke down almost immediately.

For the moment though, best wishes to James. Seriously, good luck.

This had to happen... 3 years ago every mmorpg website and journalist was giving this guy a platform to speak and drum up Kickstart $$$. He had interviews, his own sub forums and videos (including the Markee Dragon 'series' that really hyped this), He was everywhere and was being given free publicity and free hype from almost everyone with any 'power' in the mmorpg community.

3 years on, the very people who allowed this to happen by helping promote him, are on to the next hype and will not even allow real conversation about what has went down over the last years. They refuse to revisit the issue (I even wrote markee Dragon asking for help many months ago) and censor discussion when it became heated. They helped him to milk the community, OUR community but they refused to demand accountability when it was really needed. Had it not been for the free publicity,interviews and websites helping to hype this in the manner they did- We wouldnt be here right now. True story.

I know readers who come across this will think im a huge asshole for some of the things I said here and how I acted. I know many of you guys know im really not but I was stressed the fuck out when I started this because there was a chance the codex would turn on me for how I was going to be towards James before I could get him out of the way and try to draw Appleton out of hiding. I love the codex and I love many of the people here and I took a risk- But this had to be done.

I thank the codex for being about the only placed left that had the balls to let this happen. I dont go around calling people out, I dont act like this usually and for the most part I am a pretty mellow (if a bit trollish) Penguin. I really did this for a reason... We need some fucking accountability in this industry. When something this insane is being ignored from the gaming press, how many other Kickstarter horror stories are out there that have far less drama but the same basic diagram? Thank God for Darium coming along when he did because I was exhausted and mentally drained but was trying to keep the pressure on.

Anyhow...I love you guys. I love this place. People think the codex is Hell incarnate but our forums are generally really civil and out community generally friendly with one another.


This wasnt the result I wanted- I think james should have made a clean break and we could have seen what...Developments...Went down over the next few weeks. But, it is what it is and I am happy for James (although I think its a mistake). This is now between the backers and MMOI and its up to MMOI to deliver- regardless, MMOI are not shady assholes banging the neighbors wife so....

 

[jrhager84]

I'm still confused as to why people think MMOI's acquisition of the GM brand is a mistake. If we wouldn't have taken it, then nobody would have gotten anything more, ever. There's no risk associated on the backers' behalf with us taking it; If anything, we're *increasing* the odds of a successful launch. It's literally either get nothing, or get something under MMOI. We've taken on a huge undertaking to honor the backers, and the fact that people are resisting this has me at a bit of a pause.

Also, there's ZERO chance for KS litigation. We've checked. If anything, people would bellyache and still lose their money. James and I found that unconscionable. There's zero recourse for backers if this fails. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. We took this on to honor the backers, and get something going. I appreciate people looking out for us, but the fact of the matter is, if there were some massive legal case waiting to happen, we would not have been able to continue. It's just too much of a risk. Now knowing that there's NOTHING a backer can do to get their money back, we could NOT in good conscience just let the IP fall flat.

I hope this clears it up, at least slightly.

 

[jrhager84]

Also - It bears mentioning that even IF a case magically happened, that James and I, and MMOI by extension, are fully indemnified against it. We made sure it was in our contract. ;-)

 

[jrhager84]

Enshrining in Retardo is a great idea, but it's not :incloosive: enough, outsiders and newbies will never be able to hear this cautionary tale.

I propose it to be pinned in MMO, this subforum needs its own history.

I'm not sure what you mean, exactly. If we demonstrate that things are different, then there's nothing to caution against. If anything, that only hurts the chances of backers getting what they paid for, by drudging up past issues that have since been corrected. I certainly understand everybody'd hesitation, but please at least give us the time to show you things are different, instead of just assuming we're going to screw you over. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

I'm still confused as to why people think MMOI's acquisition of the GM brand is a mistake. If we wouldn't have taken it, then nobody would have gotten anything more, ever. There's no risk associated on the backers' behalf with us taking it; If anything, we're *increasing* the odds of a successful launch. It's literally either get nothing, or get something under MMOI. We've taken on a huge undertaking to honor the backers, and the fact that people are resisting this has me at a bit of a pause.

Also, there's ZERO chance for KS litigation. We've checked. If anything, people would bellyache and still lose their money. James and I found that unconscionable. There's zero recourse for backers if this fails. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. We took this on to honor the backers, and get something going. I appreciate people looking out for us, but the fact of the matter is, if there were some massive legal case waiting to happen, we would not have been able to continue. It's just too much of a risk. Now knowing that there's NOTHING a backer can do to get their money back, we could NOT in good conscience just let the IP fall flat.

I hope this clears it up, at least slightly.

I will answer for myself (not for most people) but I dont want you to take this the wrong way- I really like you guys. I am not trying to argue the point or trying to give you a hard time about anything. I think its really honorable what you have done here,I think your intentions are pure, I know you care for the backers and I think you have integrity.

This is less about legal issues (which i'm sure you're correct) and more about allowing an out for Jason when the PR shitstorm was on the horizon and he was going to forced to publicly take accountability for everything. This was his doing and his mess to clean up- He benefited from this (greatly imho) and is honestly in a better position now than he was a month ago. Jason is out of the spotlight and it looks like everything is over in that regard. I hope Jason learned a huge lesson here (I think he probably did not) because he really is a charismatic, clever, intelligent and creative person who could use his gifts for incline if he wasnt such a greedy, shady ,fucker. But hes gone ontothe next project and this is a memory.

Now,onto you guys. Again, no offense meant here. I think james was in way over his head with the scope of this. I think the logs reflect badly on everyone but also show that Jason was taking(bad) advice from james and jason was clueless and at the mercy of what others were telling him. I like james. I like You- However, I think you guys may have been placed out of the frying pan and into the fire. I think James is back in over his head and I think you guys have a really tough road ahead.
-On the plus side, the community wants you to succeed not only for the backers sake but just to spite Jason. Would be awesome to see you guys make it big- So we/I am rooting for you. I just think there is a very long road ahead and at some point if real and tangible progress isnt made then this whole mess will be similar to where we were at a month ago but without jason running things and without me hitting you guys up.

Please dont take any of this wrong man . Like I said, I dont want to get on you or james at all and I wont. Just trying to explain my thoughts. You have my support and I want you guys to make it big. I want MMOI to be the next Blizzard. Now you guys have to deliver before the goodwill goes away (again- Not with me. I am out.)

 

[jrhager84]

Oh, not at all! Your input is valuable to us, and this decision wasn't made lightly. James is a very focused, very driven person. However, his passions lie in coding and development; Not in networking, PR, maintaining a sustainable growth rate, resource management, or creating milestones, team management, etc. Fortunately, those are my strong suits. I personally feel too much was put on the shoulders of a person who wanted to code. I will not be making that mistake.

We are in the process of rebuilding the team, and transferring everything over. As soon as those things fall into place, we'll be able to actually *start* actively developing again. Right now, we're in a holding pattern, as it takes time to migrate everything, and iron out any kinks.