KickStarter Geneforge 1 - Mutagen - remake from Spiderweb Software

[*-*/\--/\~]

Honestly, the one thing keeping me away from game development, is the fact I can't do art worth shit. Otherwise, I think I would already have started on making my own games.

One thing on my to-do list in life is learning how to drawn, aesthetics.

Sigh, it would be so much better if my cousin was alive. She had a better mind for that kind of stuff. The soul of an artist, she had.

Have a go at it anyway, man. Doing it badly is infinitely better than not doing it at all.

With this approach, what will come next, after you learn how do do some art? Attend a conservatory for a few years and learn to compose decent music? Then a degree in linguistics for the story? :D

You will never be doing it completely alone and if it's really your thing, you'll manage.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

ASCII, for when art fails thee or MUD. I honestly can't recall the last awesome all text rpg I played.

 

[Nim]

0 need for any Geneforge to be remade, it's just pointless.

UI taking up 1/3 of the screen
Lag/sluggishness on some systems
The old encumbrance system sucks, G4 one is way better
Needing 5 ap to attack makes melee enemies way too easy, again a good change that G4 brought

Of course, if you gave me all of this and that new area design I'd stay with the old versions, as annoying as they may be.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

GENEFORGE KEPT A RELATIVELY COHERENT PLOT AND RELATIVELY GOOD QUALITY THROUGH FIVE FUCKING GAMES AND THE WHOLE THING KEPT A CONSISTENT STORY

sort of. it got a little convoluted through 4 and 5.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

Will it be in 3D, with action combat and fully voiced dialogue?

 

[alighieri]

I thought a remake was supposed to modernize the old game, to make things look better. But this looks like utter shit.

 

[Aemar]

Maybe have that as Kickstarter goal?

His only Kickstarter goal is to make money off his fans that would buy any rehashed crap with Vogel's company logo on it. The Queen's Wish KS campaign has revealed that he has a solid fanbase, so I reckon we should expect additional campaigns for the rest of the Geneforge games as well.

 

[Dayyālu]

Every point about art has been already been discussed to death in the old Avadon thread.

Vogel has quite a few weird opinions regarding how to manage art in his games, most of them completely suboptimal and clearly terrible, but he's right because he's a 30+ years industry veteran. And if you don't like it you're wrong and you haven't made a living for 35+ years on old school RPGs. Also, he's old and tired, he has been at it for 40+ years and he can't be arsed to innovate.

In short, he wants bad art, he lacks any kind of art design sense, has a completely utilitarian approach that art needs to be as bad as possible so he can re-use it as long as he can, and Kickstarter isn't for improving the game but for getting extra money without worrying too much.

The only thing that Vogel regrets probably is not jumping on Kickstarter sooner, he could have made millions by doing baseline remakes.

Regarding the game, I'll need to play it. graphics are indeed secondary on Geneforge, one needs to see the underlying writing and mechanics.

sort of. it got a little convoluted through 4 and 5.

"I retconned an entire continent because fuck I need to finish this"

Some of the developments were insanely nice, though. The Traikovites becoming something completely different from what Traikov was originally, by reading what they wanted in his story (that we know better as players because we met the guy) was a touch of genius. Almost non-Vogelian, the thing was creative!

 

[JarlFrank]

If you're into eye candy, you're in the wrong forum thread. Oozing graphics were never important in a true RPG.

No one is complaining about lack of oozing graphics, but about destroying whatever atmosphere the original game had with some sterille shit.

I mean, the graphics are oozing.
The same way that pus is.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Each of Vogel's Remakes have been prosperisation of his past works.
Exile is much greater than Avernum.
Avernum is still acceptable though.
nuAvernum's gameplay systems are downright awful.
Queens Wish is at the levels of Cosmic Horror.

The only series left to rape with his remakes? Geneforge.

 

[Infinitron]

Each of Vogel's Remakes have been prosperisation of his past works.
Exile is much greater than Avernum.
Avernum is still acceptable though.
nuAvernum's gameplay systems are downright awful.
Queens Wish is at the levels of Cosmic Horror.

The only series left to rape with his remakes? Geneforge.

He also skipped over remaking Avernum 4-5-6. If that's the rule then maybe Geneforge 4 & 5 won't get remade either?

 

[baud]

Each of Vogel's Remakes have been prosperisation of his past works.
Exile is much greater than Avernum.
Avernum is still acceptable though.
nuAvernum's gameplay systems are downright awful.
Queens Wish is at the levels of Cosmic Horror.

The only series left to rape with his remakes? Geneforge.

He also skipped over remaking Avernum 4-5-6. If that's the rule then maybe Geneforge 4 & 5 won't get remade either?

Perhaps the sales for Avernum 2-3 weren't good enough for him to take the risk of doing the other 3 games. At least judging by the number of reviews, the first one sold much better than the other 2 (712 reviews vs 112 & 108).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, at least it isn't VR. You know what this sort of reminds me of SHATTERED LIGHT

Mobygames

But it was fucking clunky and pain. Mostly it was a construction set.

 

[V_K]

He also skipped over remaking Avernum 4-5-6. If that's the rule then maybe Geneforge 4 & 5 won't get remade either?

He's just going chronologically. The first Geneforge trilogy was released before the second Avernum trilogy.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS ALSO AVERNUM 4 ENGINE WAS UPDATED FROM 1 2 3 ALREADY

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Jeff just doesn't understand aesthetics at all does he?

Even a blind man could design better visuals than that old man.

It's more that he doesn't care. If he hired a new artist for a single game, he couldn't reuse shit infinitely from previous games, which is what he wants to do. I don't understand why he bothers kickstarting as he's clearly just developing games like he always has. He doesn't need the money up front, given his goals, so it's just a silly promotional gimmick.

I'm possibly the biggest Spiderweb fan on Codex, but I'm getting tired of his shit. Enough so, that I might refuse to buy this out of spite (I'll probably buy it anyway, just to play it again, but still). Geneforge is such a great franchise that I think he could make millions if he invested in decent art and engine, but he's lazy, risk-averse and doesn't want to exert any effort into his games. All of the games he's remaking from here on out were designed on an engine that's very similar to the current one he uses, so there's going to be increasingly fewer differences between the remakes and the originals.

Plus, while all of the Geneforges are great, there's a very clear difference between 1 and 2 (which are basically just the same game) and 3-5 (which introduce on-going characters and kick the plot into motion). 3 and 4 are much more linear than 1 and 2 because he was experimenting more with plot focused gameplay, however, he combined that focus on plot and an open world in Geneforge 5 (which is, by far, the best game he's ever created). So I've always thought that he should remake the entire series as just 3 games, combining the plots from 3 and 4 into the open world gameplay of 1 and 2, and leaving Geneforge 5 untouched. He doesn't seem willing to redo his games that drastically, though, so I doubt that will happen. New fans are going to be incredibly disappointed when he remakes Geneforge 3, though, as it's completely unlike 1 and 2.

 

[Dayyālu]

He doesn't need the money up front, given his goals, so it's just a silly promotional gimmick.

He probably gets some financial advantage in doing so, and he doesn't need to add jack shit as extra goals. There's surely a reason.

Plus, while all of the Geneforges are great, there's a very clear difference between 1 and 2 (which are basically just the same game)

I disagree. GF1 and GF2 have only the basic set-up of "pick your faction" but that's common even to GF 5. For example, GF2 introduced the chance of doing a canister-less run (managing the problem of your character going sociopath or not that was more developed in later games). They're mechanically similar, but just because Jeff didn't experiment with mechanics until 3-4 (companions, crafting, more creations). One can also argue that the fact that the "plot" does not advance in GF1-2 is because we got Shaper ending as canon, and Shapers mantain the status quo by default: the plot advances nonetheless (the creation of Drakons and all the silly things that follow).

So I've always thought that he should remake the entire series as just 3 games, combining the plots from 3 and 4 into the open world gameplay of 1 and 2, and leaving Geneforge 5 untouched.

Vogel himself wasn't completely happy at how GF3 turned out. But, you know, I don't dislike the attempt. He was trying to build a series of "vignettes" and go chapter-like, and while in GF3 the island system is indeed clunky GF4 gives you some excellent scenarios, like the Swamps of Monarch, probably my favourite Geneforge area for the sheer amount of fuckery you can inflict on both Shaper and Rebel forces.

New fans are going to be incredibly disappointed when he remakes Geneforge 3, though, as it's completely unlike 1 and 2.

New fans will buy anything he throws out, they didn't complain for Queen's Wish, and QW is flat out horrible compared to GF3.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Each of Vogel's Remakes have been prosperisation of his past works.
Exile is much greater than Avernum.
Avernum is still acceptable though.
nuAvernum's gameplay systems are downright awful.
Queens Wish is at the levels of Cosmic Horror.

The only series left to rape with his remakes? Geneforge.

He also skipped over remaking Avernum 4-5-6. If that's the rule then maybe Geneforge 4 & 5 won't get remade either?

Probably because people didn't swallow nuAvernum 2 and 3 well enough...

 

[Infinitron]

No, I think he actually planned from the beginning not to remake Avernum 4-6, because they were released on Steam while the original trilogy wasn't.

 

[passerby]

He planned from the beginning, mostly because Avernum 4-5 already had modernised UI and graphics, with lack of fullscreen mode being the only major difference.
There is not enough difference between 4-5 and 6 which was the base for the remakes, to justify selling them again.

Another reason is that 4-5 have a reputation of being lower quality then other games in the series and many gamers would naturally got bored and drop out after A3 that supposedly has a nice closure for the trilogy.
He will most likely remake only G1 and 2, maybe 3 if the sales of the first two remakes will be decent.

 

[Infinitron]

He planned from the beginning, mostly because Avernum 4-5 already had modernised UI and graphics, with lack of fullscreen mode being the only major difference.
There is not enough difference between 4-5 and 6 which was the base for the remakes, to justify selling them again.

Another reason is that 4-5 have a reputation of being lower quality then other games in the series and many gamers would naturally got bored and drop out after A3 that supposedly has a nice closure for the trilogy.
He will most likely remake only G1 and 2, maybe 3 if the sales of the first two remakes will be decent.

G1 remake -> Queen's Wish 2 -> G2 remake -> Queen's Wish 3 -> retirement? I guess we'll see in four years.

 

[Viata]

G1 remake -> Queen's Wish 2 -> G2 remake -> Queen's Wish 1 remake -> retirement? I guess we'll see in four years.

Now it looks more like what may happens.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Each of Vogel's Remakes have been prosperisation of his past works.
Exile is much greater than Avernum.
Avernum is still acceptable though.
nuAvernum's gameplay systems are downright awful.
Queens Wish is at the levels of Cosmic Horror.

The only series left to rape with his remakes? Geneforge.

He also skipped over remaking Avernum 4-5-6. If that's the rule then maybe Geneforge 4 & 5 won't get remade either?

I believe this is a 10 year plan where he's remaking the entire Geneforge series. I'll post proofs if I can find it, if it exists and I'm not just remembering things (there's a lot of info flying around the Spiderweb discord). As for the second Avernum trilogy:

 

[Terra]

Jeff has almost definitely mentioned wanting to correct mistakes/bad decisions in Geneforge 3 (maybe 4) at least when he revisits them. Probably read it on his blog at some point.

 

[V_K]

No, I think he actually planned from the beginning not to remake Avernum 4-6, because they were released on Steam while the original trilogy wasn't.

Geneforge 1 and 2 are on Steam though, so by that logic he wouldn't be remaking them either.