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KickStarter Geneforge 1 - Mutagen - remake from Spiderweb Software

Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
635
The comparison with DnD is not poignant at all.

What I recommend to do if you fall into what I did (wasting time) is simply opening the wiki and reading the pieces of content related to each location. No point having to do around 5-8 encounters and wasting time to read a letter or a book, when the system itself is made in a way done to not engage the player through the medium of the game. If clicking the mouse button just for the sake of clicking is enjoyable for you, good for you.
 

thesecret1

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Finished the game today, about a decade since I've played the original. I'm impressed – it's a clear improvement, and a fun game. I played on Torment difficulty with a self-imposed challenge of not using any canisters save for the mandatory one in the tutorial, and one more to be able to create fyoras (because playing Geneforge without creations seemed like an absolute waste). Was pleasantly surprised that the game recognized this in the ending, even if only by changing a line or two.

Combat-wise, the game was pretty solid. There were some obvious cheese tactics (spray crystal applying ridiculously OP acid condition being a good example) but none that'd entirely trivialize the game – encounters that were meant to be hard were still hard, even if perhaps easier than intended. Amount of XP gained being dependent on your level seemed such an abysmal decision, but aside from making the player feel annoyed and disappointed, it didn't really affect much – I still ended the game extremely powerful and plowed my way through every encounter the game could throw at me (including the total genocide of Vakkiri and Kazg, slaying Goettsch, etc.). Overall, pretty good.

Story-wise, I was disappointed by the overall lack of reactivity. The world is utterly static, with NPCs even teasing you with shit like "Now that you've cleared the fields, we will go and reoccupy them!" only to never actually do that. Similarly, the NPCs do not react to your deeds enough, nor does the game acknowledge half the shit you do. This is particularly visible if you do big stuff like wiping out Kazg, and find out you cannot tell the advanced servile outpost about it (an outpost whose sole purpose is to fight against Kazg...). Nor can you tell the leader of Obeyers that you've wiped out the other factions, or, say, inform the last of the ascended that his pals are dead and their lifelong work is finished. It's all comparatively minor stuff, but were it added, it would've massively improved the player's experience.

Itemization was pretty good – I actually used consumables quite a lot since they were very useful. The game was a bit too generous with them, though. Economy was totally busted, with me actually reaching the cap of 30k coins (did you know it's capped? You cannot have more than 30k), but there wasn't all that much to buy anyway.

In summary, I liked the game quite a lot, as much as I did the original all those years ago. I'm surprised, too – after Queen's Wish, I didn't dare hope to see anything worthwhile from Jeff.
 

Gandalf

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He is a solid remaker. I don't remember being dissapointed with any new version of the old classics he made so far. It's pretty cool. My dream would be to make a game in this isometric SS's engine. I have so many ideas...
 

Rincewind

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Man, the average gamer doesn't seem to be very bright. Look at these absolutely stupid "reviews":
https://steamcommunity.com/app/200960/negativereviews/?browsefilter=toprated&snr=1_5_9_#scrollTop=0

Some truly "when words are not enough" material there:

This is one of those CRPGS where you find out your have a crappy, borderline unplayable build ONLY AFTER you've played the game for 15+ hours. In contrast the story and setting is absolutely sublime, they are honestly the only reason I would recommend this game at all.
:hmmm:

Yeah, let's make *all* builds equally viable. In other words, castrate the whole system so it pretty much doesn't matter where you put the points...

I started the game a few days ago on Veteran difficulty with a Shaper and I'm having a blast.

Combat is great, graphics is great, story is great, writing is great—that's my review so far. Well, the sound is great too!

I really do enjoy the tactical turn-based combat, and on Veteran the game takes off the kid gloves. Just how it should be.
 

Rincewind

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Alright, probably I'm more than halfway through it (I've cleared more than 50% of the map) and IMO it overstays it's welcome. Plus there's just too much combat. The combat is generally OK but not particularly interesting to do the same moves 1000 times.

I was more enthusiastic about it in the beginning, but I guess once I start seeing patterns, I just get bored. To be fair, this is a common theme in many games, especially long RPGs.
 
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Alright, probably I'm more than halfway through it (I've cleared more than 50% of the map) and IMO it overstays it's welcome. Plus there's just too much combat. The combat is generally OK but not particularly interesting to do the same moves 1000 times.

I was more enthusiastic about it in the beginning, but I guess once I start seeing patterns, I just get bored. To be fair, this is a common theme in many games, especially long RPGs.
Had the same problem as you. Although figuring out the secrets of the island, if you do, plus the ending made it worth it. If you're not up for that, just push through to the end, you should be at the point where you know where end game is. The combat is not the highlight in Geneforge.
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
B... but I thought Geneforge is amazing, and it's totally worth it for grinding trash mobs 95% of the game time because... stuffies... and it's a classic, one of the best RPGs ever!
 

Martyr

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tbh the only thing I'm getting tired of are the repetetive descriptions of the overall setting, powers, creatures etc. throughout the series.
I get why Vogel did that, since he says that each game is supposedly stand-alone, but having played earlier entries and reading the same stuff again and again gets old fast, even with long pauses between the games.
why don't I skip these descriptive texts? seems to me that there's always some new detail hidden here and there. the completionist in me shudders to think that I might miss "relevant" information.
but I've never had an issue with trash mobs and fighting all the time.
 

Terra

Cipher
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I think most of the Geneforges are guilty of having a few too many areas in the endgame, I recall with pretty much all of the original five I basically hit a point where I decide enough is enough and beelined the remainder of the main quest (which is what I'd recommend if you've hit that point). I think most of the prior justifications for it were you don't have to do everything and/or you may have taken a different route through the map to others and to be fair there are some maps where you are hard shut down if you don't have a particular build.
 

Rincewind

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Had the same problem as you. Although figuring out the secrets of the island, if you do, plus the ending made it worth it. If you're not up for that, just push through to the end, you should be at the point where you know where end game is.
Yeah, I'm really into the exploration and finding secrets part. Combat was fun... while it lasted, but now it has just become tedious after a month of playing. So I guess I'll turn down the difficulty one notch, keep exploring, and mostly just click through the combat.

I also quite dislike the XP scaling; there's satisfaction in becoming overpowered comparing to the enemies in a certain area, then coming back and kicking everyone's butt. Well, you can still do that, but the payoff is low.

The combat is not the highlight in Geneforge.
Indeed, and while it was fun for 15-20 hours, there just isn't much depth to it. The fact that the pre-combat stage is realtime also allows for some questionable cheesing tactics...

Also, it seems like the combat/story ratio is changing as you are nearing the end (meaning there's more combat), which I'm not a fan of. Let's throw more trash mobs at the player because... well, why exactly? How is that interesting?
 
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I cleared every single map until I got to the endgame dungeon and have to say, I googled a full map once I got there and saw how many there were, so i was just running through everything. And just as a final fuck you, even leaving you're put infront of a hard fight with my least favourite enemies in the game. Luckily as with most places, you can avoid it completely. I did combat for only ~10% of endgame dungeons.
 

Rincewind

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I cleared every single map until I got to the endgame dungeon and have to say, I googled a full map once I got there and saw how many there were, so i was just running through everything. And just as a final fuck you, even leaving you're put infront of a hard fight with my least favourite enemies in the game. Luckily as with most places, you can avoid it completely. I did combat for only ~10% of endgame dungeons.
Yeah I'll clear all the maps, no questions about that. If it takes bumping down the difficulty two notches, so be it. I just wanna see everything, and it's unlikely I'll ever replay the game again.
 

Rincewind

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Okay... The area before the ghost gate was annoying as fuck with the spawners that spam you with those gangs of hasted scorpion things that casually start the battle by throwing a few poison area effects on you. Plus Jeff had this bright idea to lure you into tunnels, then some script auto-spawns such a gang behind you, just for the lulz.

:fuuyeah:

BUT! I've cleared that on Normal, and I've gained a level AND now I'm able to shape this crazy motherfucker!

heBbODh.png


:yeah:

Back to Veteran mode, and I'm gonna mow down the whole land with my army of fully decked-out cockatrices in no time! :cool:
 
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I never figured out how to use the cockatrice properly, even with a full shaper build, it would die too fast.

Anyone used it well? I tried having more melee creations and skip a turn with cockatrice but even then the cost of it wasn't worth it for me.
 

Rincewind

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I never figured out how to use the cockatrice properly, even with a full shaper build, it would die too fast.

Anyone used it well? I tried having more melee creations and skip a turn with cockatrice but even then the cost of it wasn't worth it for me.
Yeah, it looks like my excitement was premature, the thing keeps dying... I guess I'll experiment with it because it's cool.

I wish you could create a party template in Geneforge, as I need to recreate the same party over and over after a few battles... I treat the monsters pretty much as expendables.
 

Serious_Business

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Had a look at the remake. Looks sweet.

The Codex was the reason I discovered Geneforge and Vogel back in the day, in 2004 I think. At least something good came out of it. Geneforge 1 is one of the big gems of the early 2000', it probably isn't talked about nearly enough. 55 on the top list is pretty outrageous. It just is a perfect indie game, and before indie dev was common. When gaming was blasting big budgets and cinematographic ambitions, the man in the attic was doing some dark and impossible sorcery. I'm not a big Vogel connaisseur, but the writing he pulled of in this is quite good. All the systems are tight and work well. It really is an engaging experience. Truly one of the best isometric crpgs out there.

I think I only played the first two. 5 titles is a bit much, probably was done for money reasons. Dilutes the experience a bit, but then there is more of it.
 

ghostdog

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I never figured out how to use the cockatrice properly, even with a full shaper build, it would die too fast.

Anyone used it well? I tried having more melee creations and skip a turn with cockatrice but even then the cost of it wasn't worth it for me.
Yeah, it looks like my excitement was premature, the thing keeps dying... I guess I'll experiment with it because it's cool.

I wish you could create a party template in Geneforge, as I need to recreate the same party over and over after a few battles... I treat the monsters pretty much as expendables.
IIRC there's an upgrade you can get for the cockatrice, in order for it to be more viable. It's kind of a secret? Not sure, memory is a bit fuzzy.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Had a look at the remake. Looks sweet.

The Codex was the reason I discovered Geneforge and Vogel back in the day, in 2004 I think. At least something good came out of it. Geneforge 1 is one of the big gems of the early 2000', it probably isn't talked about nearly enough. 55 on the top list is pretty outrageous. It just is a perfect indie game, and before indie dev was common. When gaming was blasting big budgets and cinematographic ambitions, the man in the attic was doing some dark and impossible sorcery. I'm not a big Vogel connaisseur, but the writing he pulled of in this is quite good. All the systems are tight and work well. It really is an engaging experience. Truly one of the best isometric crpgs out there.

I think I only played the first two. 5 titles is a bit much, probably was done for money reasons. Dilutes the experience a bit, but then there is more of it.

I agree with this, I would just say that it was at least worth 4 titles. The first and second game are quite different. Third game shows the real aftermath of the second game, and then 4 and 5 are basically the same in my memory and show the final result.

3 was the weakest as far as I'm concerned, probably just because of the map travel system, and I haven't revisited it in ages. I'm looking forward to the remake, will be interesting to see how Vogel tinkers with it.


EDIT: The remake of 2 was also the first time I tried a Barzite play through. When I played (and replayed) these games in the past, I was always a shaper loyalist. But these days I see issues with old policies of the shapers and am more inclined to use the geneforge for "pro-shaper" purposes rather than try to put the cat in the bag. I am tempted to replay the remake again, though, and try being a Sholai supporter.
 

Mauman

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EDIT: The remake of 2 was also the first time I tried a Barzite play through. When I played (and replayed) these games in the past, I was always a shaper loyalist. But these days I see issues with old policies of the shapers and am more inclined to use the geneforge for "pro-shaper" purposes rather than try to put the cat in the bag. I am tempted to replay the remake again, though, and try being a Sholai supporter.
Barzite is fun when you take an "ULTIMATE POWWWAAAAHHHH" kind of mentality for the playthrough.

Shame you can't
use the geneforge
in 2. I would have liked to see the Barzite reaction to that.

One of my favorite moments in the first one was returning to the 3 main towns after using said item and crushing the takers (cuz fuck them), make the awakened leader (Ellrah, who WANTED this result) shit himself, and for the Obeyers.....leave them alone because the leader actually managed to calmly point out that I'd made a mistake and pretty much be right. Whatever faults I find with the Obeyers, I had to respect their leader for the titan sized balls of adamantium he had there.
 
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I will never, ever be anything but a shaper loyalist after stumbling across a brutally murdered servant mind in the awakened base in Geneforge 1.

I wasn't inclined towards them anyways but when I saw that I knew I was going to brutally massacre all of them.

I would help the Takers destroy the last remnants of Shapers than help a single awakened.
 

Mauman

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I will never, ever be anything but a shaper loyalist after stumbling across a brutally murdered servant mind in the awakened base in Geneforge 1.

I wasn't inclined towards them anyways but when I saw that I knew I was going to brutally massacre all of them.

I would help the Takers destroy the last remnants of Shapers than help a single awakened.
I'm a shaper loyalist myself in most playthroughs.

I'll play the other ones though. If there's one i don't get around to it's usually the Takers.

And I agree the Awakened are NOT the good guy sect that most portray them as. I'd say they're less shit than the Takers and Barzites, but that's not exactly saying much. Just look at Geneforge 2 where their end game consists of
going against their morals and using enslaved drakons to guard the skies/paths against intrusion. Hell, they even task you to kill some rogues!!
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Barzites are not shit, they just know that the Shapers can't put the cat back in the bag. Shapers can either adopt and regulate the new technology, or they can get overthrown by the takers or sholai.

Takers are retarded and violent animals, so I never side with them. Sholai... I don't think they were a genuine option prior to the remake, and they're foreigners anyway. Barzites do some stupid stuff and become unhinged, but it's because they're competing against the takers and they know the shapers will also attack. If they felt safer I imagine they'd take their time and be more careful about who uses the forge and how often they do so.

In the end they become based god-like beings who take shaper civilization to the next level. Bretty gud. Also felt a bit like that AoD ending where the wards do indeed hold.
 
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Barzites are not shit, they just know that the Shapers can't put the cat back in the bag. Shapers can either adopt and regulate the new technology, or they can get overthrown by the takers or sholai.
I haven't played the remake, but the Barzites always came off to me like a bunch of insane, unhinged lunatics off their collective rocker. I'm all for transhumanism and transcending your limitations, but the Barzites sound like they're absolutely nuts on crackhead ethics. At least Barzh is actually pretty bro re: Your mistress' murder, and lets you kill his subordinate, if you can. But they're all off their rockers and canister-crazy.

At least the Takers have a good reason for going fucking nuts, even if its clear by Geneforge 2 that the Servile Takers lost the plot and now the Drakons are running the show.

Wait a second, the Sholai are an option in the Geneforge 2 remake? I know you could help Trajkov in the OG, and the Renegade Sholai helping the Awakened were a thing.
 

thesecret1

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I think I only played the first two. 5 titles is a bit much, probably was done for money reasons. Dilutes the experience a bit, but then there is more of it.
The first two were the best anyway, if memory serves. Not that the later one were bad, they just weren't as good. I didn't like the two recurring leader characters introduced in 3, where one is basically a screeching libtard and the other one is a "muh law and order" boomer, and the high continuity between the two (which wasn't there between 1 and 2 and 2 and 3) made the experience rather discordant if you didn't follow the faction that won by canon. There was also a lot less innovation between the titles.

I'm hoping that once Jeff gets to remaking G3 and later ones, he'll reconceptualize some things and makes each feel more distinct. I remember the OG 1 and 2, but from 3 onwards it all blends together.
 

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