KickStarter Geneforge 1 - Mutagen - remake from Spiderweb Software

[Contagium]

Thoroughly enjoying this so far. Not sure if it's because mostly what I've played over the last few months has been depressing trash, or if a Vogel game is like revisiting an old friend that is always easy to get along with. The graphical upgrades are nice and everything is butter-smooth. I certainly appreciate the ability to play at a higher resolution than the old titles in the series allowed.

 

[Dayyālu]

I'm enjoying it a lot, a thing I could not say for QW. I like it even mechanically, it's not as revolutionary as it first appeared but it's less cookie-cutter than GF1. I wonder how bless/debuff magic fares in later content as it was a requirement for Shaper builds before.

I'm kinda cold on the plot addition tho, the inutile serviles feel a little.... weird? The village is fine. But it feels a bit tacked-on and the entire concept is weird: we're talking neurodivergent Serviles that are genetically predisposed towards criminality or deviant behavior? What's Vogel even trying to tell, or it's simply an addition because he needed a hidden village with powerful items?

If it has been estabilished that Shapers take great care of their creations as tools, exploiting them but not wasting them, what's the point of telling us that apparently the world is full of abandoned barely-functional serviles bent on stealing and derangement? It feels... off.

 

[Contagium]

I'm enjoying it a lot, a thing I could not say for QW. I like it even mechanically, it's not as revolutionary as it first appeared but it's less cookie-cutter than GF1. I wonder how bless/debuff magic fares in later content as it was a requirement for Shaper builds before.

I'm kinda cold on the plot addition tho, the inutile serviles feel a little.... weird? The village is fine. But it feels a bit tacked-on and the entire concept is weird: we're talking neurodivergent Serviles that are genetically predisposed towards criminality or deviant behavior? What's Vogel even trying to tell, or it's simply an addition because he needed a hidden village with powerful items?

If it has been estabilished that Shapers take great care of their creations as tools, exploiting them but not wasting them, what's the point of telling us that apparently the world is full of abandoned barely-functional serviles bent on stealing and derangement? It feels... off.

That's probably half the reason I'm liking this so much. Queer's Wish was such a disappointment in every way. This leaves me fabulously optimistic about what's coming next.

 

[Ruslan]

I'm really enjoying the game so far, but I can't think of any reason why Shapers would create serviles to have such cartoonishly disproportionate noses. It's like they did it just to be mean.

Also, I just found out that there is some chain of events that could lead to the people in the Patrolled Dell not being immediately hostile, but I accidentally killed them all already.

 

[Hobo Elf]

If it has been estabilished that Shapers take great care of their creations as tools, exploiting them but not wasting them, what's the point of telling us that apparently the world is full of abandoned barely-functional serviles bent on stealing and derangement? It feels... off.

Spoiler

Sucia Island happened a long time ago and many practices that the Shapers did then are currently thought of as backwards and unenlightened. They didn't take as good care of their creations as they do now. This is something that is revealed to the player as they explore the island. Exploring the game world will also reveal that Shaper techniques weren't so good and liable to mistakes, which would explain why some Serviles just came out wrong. There's more that I can say about this but I'll avoid it for now as discovery of the world lore is part of the fun of Geneforge.

 

[Dayyālu]

spoiler

Spoiler

Yeh, but the writing presumes that your character, apparently up-to-date on Shaper practices, knows about Inutile Serviles and their treatment by up-to-date Shaper society at large - annihilation or abandonment. I do remember the background of Sucia in the original GF and how from GF2's onwards the grey morality of the Shapers got underlined with the "creations as our children" theme and overall responsibility. I merely find the entire concept weird, because it runs contrary to the idea that Serviles are people and not biological robots. I can't pinpoint if it's ammunition for the gray morality - Serviles aren't exactly as free-willed and autonomous as they think they are - or merely clumsy writing.

But again, if the remake changes stuff I haven't gotten to it yet. I'm slooooow.

 

[Strange Fellow]

A question for the people who are playing: how is the remaster in terms of quality of life improvements? By that I mean primarily the user interface. The idea of new content being added into an old game decades later is something I'm ambivalent about, but it sounds like the new content is at least not terrible, and that the RPG systems haven't been gutted. That leaves QoL as the motivation for me to play this over the original. The appeal of playing an old classic with a modern interface is pretty strong, but then it has to be up to snuff, otherwise I might as well get the cheaper version.

 

[Dayyālu]

A question for the people who are playing: how is the remaster in terms of quality of life improvements?

Non-existant to minor. Bigger picture, but the interface is as clunky as the original. If you want this for QoL, it's the barest of bones for a remaster.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Thanks. That sucks, then

 

[Hobo Elf]

Finished the game as a Shaper Loyalist with almost all my points put into Essence and Fire. For me it exceeded my expectations. Mostly what I wanted from a remake was for it to work better on a modern machine and fixing the bonkers stat balance and HP bloat of the later entries. In this way the Remake was a success for me. I also enjoyed the new added content as there were a few fun and tough fights in there. The Cockatrice seems like a cool creation to make as well and I'll definitely try that in a future run. Fun stuff.

I also think that one of the side quests added into the remake is going to have its plot line continue in the next entries. Those who have completed this one will probably guess which one I'm talking about. It feels kind of obvious, but the ending slides pretty much confirms it.

 

[Rafidur]

fixing the bonkers stat balance and HP bloat of the later entries.

It might lean too far in the other direction, on torment most late game attacks could one-shot my creations (even aoe attacks) unless essence shield was pre-cast on them. The only two strategies I found were either to wear a big armor, essence shield yourself, and facetank for your creations, or abuse the hell out of charm effects. Charm effects were also the only way I could kill these ghosts that fully regen every turn, since enemies hit 3-4 times as hard as your dudes, even buffed.

 

[Saduj]

I'm a few hours into my first time playing this and I have question about character building. Is it right to think that I should be careful about putting too many points into shaping early on? Playing a Shaper and at level 2, I upped my essence, fire and battle shaping abilities. At level 2, my first creation was level 4 with Weak control and the reason seems to be that he's a higher level than I am. I've had to use two creations to win some of the battles, which only lowers control and it isn't uncommon for a wounded creation to start fleeing. I'm thinking that I have to let my level catch up to my creations before I spend any points on anything that would make them a higher level.

Also, how are skills like Mechanics and Leadership for a character that isn't going to focus on them much? From the description of Mechanics, it seems like buying just a point or two would be useful for any character (unless living tools become much more common after the first few areas). But I'm wary of Leadership. I've notice a few places where it would useful but it seems like it could be the kind of skill that becomes useless if you aren't investing heavily in it to meet higher skill checks as the game progresses.

 

[Dayyālu]

I'm a few hours into my first time playing this and I have question about character building. Is it right to think that I should be careful about putting too many points into shaping early on? Playing a Shaper and at level 2, I upped my essence, fire and battle shaping abilities. At level 2, my first creation was level 4 with Weak control and the reason seems to be that he's a higher level than I am. I've had to use two creations to win some of the battles, which only lowers control and it isn't uncommon for a wounded creation to start fleeing. I'm thinking that I have to let my level catch up to my creations before I spend any points on anything that would make them a higher level.

Fun fact: apparently boosting a Shaping Skill gives you extra control. It also boosts Creation level, apparently giving you less control. Working as intended?

I bulldozed the early game with Cryoas (on Veteran, I'm not a sucker for punishment) with completely shit control, you just need to keep their health levels up and when you completely lose control and one of 'em rips your head off, it's part of the experience! Honestly tho, I didn't find poor control particularly punishing and after you get some levels the system balances itself fine.

Also, how are skills like Mechanics and Leadership for a character that isn't going to focus on them much? From the description of Mechanics, it seems like buying just a point or two would be useful for any character (unless living tools become much more common after the first few areas). But I'm wary of Leadership. I've notice a few places where it would useful but it seems like it could be the kind of skill that becomes useless if you aren't investing heavily in it to meet higher skill checks as the game progresses.

I'm playing as I always liked a first GF playthrough, Loyalist Shaper with heavy investment in Leadership and Mechanics. Low Mechanics will help making some doors easier to open, but you're going to need a hefty investment to power through Mechanic-focused areas (that have Mechanic-focused traps, amusingly enough). I'm kind of disappointed in the lack of new Leadership options, after the first Fyora encounter despite having 7 Leadership (and I'm before the Takers) I've found only another "peaceful" resolution and it was one already in the original GF.

I'd lie if I said that I remember right, but I dimly remember some lower-level checks being useful for the entire game. Pure mind fog on that one, tho. If you don't want to waste points on it, just truck on and kill everything.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I'm a few hours into my first time playing this and I have question about character building. Is it right to think that I should be careful about putting too many points into shaping early on? Playing a Shaper and at level 2, I upped my essence, fire and battle shaping abilities. At level 2, my first creation was level 4 with Weak control and the reason seems to be that he's a higher level than I am. I've had to use two creations to win some of the battles, which only lowers control and it isn't uncommon for a wounded creation to start fleeing. I'm thinking that I have to let my level catch up to my creations before I spend any points on anything that would make them a higher level.

Also, how are skills like Mechanics and Leadership for a character that isn't going to focus on them much? From the description of Mechanics, it seems like buying just a point or two would be useful for any character (unless living tools become much more common after the first few areas). But I'm wary of Leadership. I've notice a few places where it would useful but it seems like it could be the kind of skill that becomes useless if you aren't investing heavily in it to meet higher skill checks as the game progresses.

I didn't really pay attention to the control stuff until the end, so I'm not aware of the exact formulas here, but with 6 cryodrayks under my control I got 2 control for each drayk every time my character leveled up. So that meant I could level my creations up once and then I'd be one control point in the positive. I just did this until I got it down to 0. Having it at 1-3 seems quite acceptable as they wont freak out that often. I don't suggest putting too many points into Essence at the early game. A point or two is OK, but the formula for Essence calculations (I don't have it on hand) is so that it's a multiplier with your character's level. That means that you'll get more meaningful gains if you put points into it later when you'll probably need it more. Of course this is up to player preference, but keep that in mind.

Since Battle is focused on melee, you're likely to take way more hits than Fire or Magic creations would. You probably have to be a lot more mindful of the control level when using those kind of creations.

I've always been a person who put points heavily into Mechanics and Leadership, because it was always recommended. This time I leveled them up myself to 5 points in each and I didn't have any issues at all. Finished the game with an excess of 50 living tools. 5 Leadership minimum is a good place to be at as it gives you access to most extra quest rewards. Going higher has benefits, but they aren't a must. You also find a belt that gives +2 leadership and gloves that give +2 mechanics that you can equip for the more difficult checks. There are also trainers and books that boost those abilities, so you can take the skills into acceptable levels without spending too many of your own skill points. A high Leadership investment will be necessary if you want to be a triple agent among all the Servile factions, however.

tl;dr: nice to have points in those skill, but not necessary. Don't sweat it too much if you feel like you're not investing enough.

Here's a little protip: investing points into Blessing will only increase the duration of the buffs, not how strong they are. With that in mind you only ever need to have 3 points in Blessings, which allows you to unlock all the spells. Same thing with Healing Craft. If you find the Canisters for the buff and heal spells, and use some items that give them a bonus, you'll be way more than fine. Going above 3 is a waste of points. Battle is worth going higher since it scales spell damage, but I'm not sure about Mental if it also only affects the duration or chance to land the status effects.

 

[Rafidur]

I'm kind of disappointed in the lack of new Leadership options,

Well, normally in these games you can convince the final boss, but as a low-leadership shitter I let the final boss convince me. The ending didn't make that much sense

Spoiler

(why would he send you to warn the shapers instead of keeping the element of surprise?)

but he was a fairly swell dude overall.

 

[Tacgnol]

I always liked the other final boss leadership option in Geneforge:

Spoiler

Tricking Trajkov into using the Geneforge incorrectly. Much more amusing than the usual options of talking the final boss into giving up.

 

[Darth Canoli]

So, did he dumb down the game mechanism as well or did Vogel finally learned how to remaster his own games?

Is it better or at least as good as the original?

 

[Tacgnol]

So, did he dumb down the game mechanism as well or did Vogel finally learned how to remaster his own games?

Is it better or at least as good as the original?

The mechanics are all pretty much 1:1 with the original, for better or worse. The biggest change is how creations are made, and whilst unimaginative isn't really a dumb down.

The new content is alright for the most part, and fairly well spread about.

I'd say overall it edges out the original, but not in any drastic way. Not having to fuck around with ddraw wrappers and compat modes on newer OSes is kinda nice.

 

[Drazhya]

Here's a little protip: investing points into Blessing will only increase the duration of the buffs, not how strong they are. With that in mind you only ever need to have 3 points in Blessings, which allows you to unlock all the spells. Same thing with Healing Craft. If you find the Canisters for the buff and heal spells, and use some items that give them a bonus, you'll be way more than fine. Going above 3 is a waste of points. Battle is worth going higher since it scales spell damage, but I'm not sure about Mental if it also only affects the duration or chance to land the status effects.

If you right-click on an enemy it'll list their level, HP and resistances. It seems to be a flat %resistance chance for a status effect to fail. From my reading and my experience trying to debuff things, skill doesn't seem to have an effect. There's a miss chance in addition to resistance, but that seems entirely level-based in my experience.

Also, this bit of writing in the bunker basement bothers me.
"You try to open the vat, but it is sealed shut. Shapers are serious about security. When they want a creation vat to stay shut, it stays shut."

It's like... most of the descriptive writing in this game is like "The building is weathered from a century of neglect, but it's still standing" or "You aren't strong enough to break this stick", but this is "See, the Shapers don't want it opened, so it can't be opened". It's jarring and I don't like it.

 

[Rafidur]

You can technically increase your mind control chance by making more ur-glaahks - with enough of them you can basically ensure even 60% resistance shaolai will be the one going 'glaahk' in the end.

 

[Darth Canoli]

You can technically increase your mind control chance by making more ur-glaahks - with enough of them you can basically ensure even 60% resistance shaolai will be the one going 'glaahk' in the end.

Holy shit, shouldn't Geneforge be included in the conversation about slang and dumbed down vocabulary in cRPG ?

 

[Saduj]

Anyone else getting nonsensical errors from Steam when trying to start this game? Currently, the game won't start for me - either saying the executable is missing or the system doesn't have the resources to run the game. Neither is true. Other games start up fine.

This happened once before and I jumped through most of the hoops the Steam help page suggested. I'm skeptical that anything I did made the difference. The last thing I did was reinstall Steam. The next time I tried to start the game, got the system resources error. Then accidentally clicked on the game again and it worked. Game was fine for few days and now this crap is starting up again....

If anyone knows how to fix this for good, I would appreciate their advice.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Anyone else getting nonsensical errors from Steam when trying to start this game? Currently, the game won't start for me - either saying the executable is missing or the system doesn't have the resources to run the game. Neither is true. Other games start up fine.

This happened once before and I jumped through most of the hoops the Steam help page suggested. I'm skeptical that anything I did made the difference. The last thing I did was reinstall Steam. The next time I tried to start the game, got the system resources error. Then accidentally clicked on the game again and it worked. Game was fine for few days and now this crap is starting up again....

If anyone knows how to fix this for good, I would appreciate their advice.

Sorry man. All I can say is that it's booting up just fine for me. Also there hasn't been any updates in the past few days as far as I know. It sounds like a problem with your system. Did you verify the integrity of the games cache?

 

[Saduj]

The issue was that McAfee believes the game file is a virus.

 

[sebas]

Who the fuck uses McAfee anymore?!