Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[aweigh]

Here is a link to the new Elminage 2 .ISO w/ items finished (except for one or two i may have missed): https://firedrop.com/f8b53ffa022953f057f8211e5e4dc6dc

 

[Haplo]

Finally finished the Ice caves. At last hit level 13 on most of my characters. Diomente should be a godsend, however now I dread the thought of Magic Drain traps even more.

Also I have encountered a problem in my multiclassing plans. I wanted to turn my Alchemist into Summoner (and my Cleric into an Alchemist), however the Alchemist is of neutral character and it turns out a Summoner needs to Good/Evil. It seems that fighting/leaving neutral monsters only changes the alignment between good/evil and does nothing for the neutrals.
I don't suppose there is an easy and accessible way to change a neutral alignment?

Maybe it's for the best if the Alchemist is left pure, he'll reach higher tier crafting sooner as an Innocent human. However both he and especially the Cleric-Summoner will have little to do in combat.

 

[aweigh]

don't despair: if a character reaches his racial maximums in all Attributes (not that hard) then when you cast the spell PROTECTORATE on that character (the one with max attributes) instead of asking you whether you want to +1 one of his stats, it will instead ask you to which alignment you wish to change the character!

however there are also items that can change alignment like the devil club and the pope's mace and others i can't remember. If you're asking yourself: but how can my neutral-alignment character equip the devil club or the pope's mace which are evil/good only?

easy... you enchant the weapons to REMOVE the "alignment limit", and then anyone of any alignment can equip the weapon; then you can equip either of those two (devil club or pope's mace) and change the neutral character's alignment to what the weapon changes it to.

there are more items than just those two that change alignment btw! never forget that the only thing you can't remove via enchantment is the item's CLASS SPECIFICATION. that is the only thing that can never be altered.

So there you have it two completely viable ways to change your neutral character's alignment: using PROTECTORATE spell on the character when he/she has reached max Attributes (impossible to miss because the spell will automatically ask what alignment change you wish; if the char is still not at max attribute points then it will ask which stat you wish to pump); and a second way via weapons.

there are shields that do much the same thing, as well, but i don't think caster-types get access to the Holy Shield or the Undead Shield; for alignment-changing items your best bet is to find a weapon that changes to good/evil.

And dude, by all means just check out the japanese wiki and go check out the item lists and find which ones change alignment if you want.

 

[Haplo]

Thank you aweigh, sounds good. Seems like there is a solution to everything. Though I guess my Alchemist's Piety is on the low side still. Let's see how it goes.

 

[aweigh]

SO i downloaded a decrypted japanese .rom of the 3DS remix version of elminage: gothic and am currently beginning a new playthrough on CITRA; it doesn't run well on my PC tho, specifically the sound is way fucked up... but it's playable.

Soooo i immediately opened up the 3ds game rom in my trusty hex editor and I extracted the following:

- the complete monster entries (3ds version slightly tweaked their stats but most it was to make them EASIER).
- however the most important change: they went through the entire list of enemies and added weapons and armor to the humanoid enemies and also gave the monster enemies the "regular" monster-weapons that appeared in elminage: Original.
- i also extracted the treasure chest / loot drop data in case they changed it; there are like 10 all-new weapons in total (not counting the monster-weapons you have to steal from them which vary greatly in usefulness).

basically they made the game much easier. all of the new weapons (i.e. weapons that aren't enemy-specific) are INSANELY overpowered and/or completely unnecessary, while they missed the opportunity to make maces M-range again like in elminage: original. anyway, the following pictures are of the PC version of elminage: Gothic with all of the monster and item data taken straight out of the 3ds version rom:

 

[aweigh]

 

[Dorateen]

I'm no art critic by any stretch, and I generally prefer pixels to hand drawn. But the Elminage artwork was outstanding. Always enjoy viewing these galleries.

 

[aweigh]

the brand-new items:

--------- LOOK AT THIS FUCKING SWORD ------------------------ LOOOOK AT THIS LOL

 

[aweigh]

Spoiler

 

[aweigh]

DOWNLOAD LINK (UNZIP THESE FILES INTO SAME DIRECTORY WHERE GOTHIC .EXE IS AT): http://frd.li/a32676fee4e05cd28b194a7d395cde2d


i think you guys get the picture. i'm uploading the ITEM and monster and treasure files to my firedrop right now and gonna post the link in a few minutes so anybody who wants to play the pc version with the 3ds items / enemy configuration can do it on their PC. However the main draw and real reason to play the 3ds version is they changed the layouts of teach dungeon. P. cool, but it is a fucking pain playing it in japanese on CITRA when i'm so used to playing it in english.

And yeah, i actually translated all the items

EDIT: i just noticed they DID make a few of the new weapons M-ranged! The GIMMICK ROD is M-range and it can be stolen from low-level mage-types.

 

[aweigh]

Dorarnae Dorateen Courtier

i was digging around the dialog files of elminage: gothic and look at what i found:

静かに祈りを捧げた。..You quietly prayed...所持している英雄の秘伝書が反応して..The hero's book of secrets begins to glow faintly...淡く光りだした。....英雄の秘伝書の効果でレアアイテムのドロップ率を変更できます..With the hero's book of secrets, you may now adjust the drop rate of rare items...レアアイテムのドロップ率を変更しますか？..Will you change the drop rate of rare items?

ummmmmmmmmm guessing it was never implemented? there's no hint of such an item in the 3DS version either.

 

[Dorateen]

Yes, that is in the PC version. Did that just before going to Ibag Tower, and picked up a lot of powerful items along the way.

 

[aweigh]

Courtier
Well I found all of the "scenario dialog" inside the elminage: gothic 3DS rom!!! Lookie:

ON LEFT SIDE is the open rom of the 3ds game -- ON RIGHT SIDE is the open container .BIN file for the PC version, er i mean the specific .BIN file that has the entire game script inside of it.

So, who's up for some serious hours of copy paste???? heh. I already tried minor copy/pastes and it works. Hell, I already transplanted over the entire 3ds item list to the PC version, translated into ENGLISH and then fudged the entire list BACK into the 3ds rom and it works flawlessly.

However... there... is... so... much... dialog. And you can't just copy/paste it willy-nilly those purple blocks and shit imean shit, by the way. Can't break up shit like that.

EDIT: btw, i just wanna point out how bad ass and professional the localization team (guy, probably) who did the translation on elminage gothic is; this guy did it by the book: original japanese intact and squared away properly via hexadecimal operators (extremely tedious) and then a seperate "bracket" immediately following the japanese text w/ the english translation.

i've rooted around inside a bunch of japanese RPGs (and their localized versions in order to compare/contrast/learn) and this right here example in E: Gothic is one of the most clean and professional looking edits i've ever seen.

 

[aweigh]

Dorateen

Dude, if i had not seen that dialog about the book today because i'm rooting around inside the 3ds rom to see how feasable it is to transplant the english dialog from the PC version; well, i would have NEVER, eeeeever known about such an item. I find it even double-shocking that it's actually something you get BEFORE entering ibag's tower!

does it only happen if you go to pray before entering the tower?

 

[Dorateen]

I would have to refer back to the notes I was keeping, but probably yes. Oh, I think you can go and activate it, even if you started the Tower. The Hero's Book of Secrets was found near the end of the game, maybe in one of the post-game dungeons? Again, I will have to check. And then when you enter the temple with the book in the party's inventory, you get that message about the rare item drops.

 

[aweigh]

Courtier

 

[aweigh]

I almost forgot! here's a video of the same .ISO but running w/ the english menu textures from Elminage: Original.

 

[Courtier]

You get the book of secrets at the tavern after beating all the regular floor masters (Tower excluded).

E: I just added it to the wiki, they didn't even have how to get it on there

 

[aweigh]

i think i fucking finally figured out why i prefer Gothic over the other Elminage games. Very simple: Gothic puts the player on a straight-foward pathway through predetermined dungeons with a false choice now and then (it is false because you have to do 'em anyway or else why are you playing, right?); so anyway this basic structure allowed starfish to make a tighter progression in terms of the enemies the player will face, when he/she faces them, what kind of items the player will be getting at exactly when and where, that sort of stuff.

playing gothic is like a nigh-perfectly tuned "one long dungeon". there is a very definite sense of progression in every single category you can imagine from in-game itemization to the dungeon mazes themselves; their designs growing increasingly complex as the player progresses across the train-track made for them.

 

[Haplo]

I have explored most of Hastrana. Boy, is this place difficult to navigate. Some mobs down there were pretty brutal. On the upside, I've recruited Lightning who often does 250 damage lightning spells (or his useless breath). He should also have good chances of causing confusion with his attacks... and has a multi-hit club - but he never attacks.

I've tried recruiting a Tempest Efreet or a Hydra, but no dice. Guess I'll need to be both 10 levels above them (rather then 6 below) and have much better chance to land a Brawler "Clean Hit" in order to have reasonable chances. Does this mean the Brawler needs to be 32+ level with Combat Instinct? Ouch...
I could see the Tempest Efreet also becoming a great monster adventurer Brawler with her Lightning and Water immunities and huge Status resistances.

By the way, does anybody know what determines the stats for monster adventurers? Racial bases and/or ceilings? Is there a relation to the stats they have as monsters?

I've also made some progress in the Igdra Church. Finally reached the famous Lesser Demons and they are very nice indeed. They often appear alongside Devil Valkyries, which are a nice source of xp as well. I can gain some levels at last! Just need to watch out for the Liches with soul slaves and the self-destructing Labor Lords.

 

[Haplo]

I have found a Spiral Spear! +4 hit, 4 attacks... Seems to be the best weapon so far.... by far... Only to discover it can't be used by Dwarves! Ugh... WHYYYY!

Brawlers in Igdra Church really caught me by surprise by butchering my front row. Boy, they do some sick damage! And they look so harmless. Guess its time to replace my trusty Minotaur meatshield. Still not as bad as those sick Tengu guys from Hastrana.

 

[Dorarnae]

I got my new comp now. (old one died...). I installed elminage original and mess around a bit with faceload hehe.

I feel like playing the game again once I am done making a party I think.

 

[Haplo]

I've reached the Ulm Zakir Hall and decided to mix the things up a bit. Because if not now, when? It will only become more painful loosing those precious levels...
Now it shouldn't take THAT long to recover and for now the Mastery skills of advanced/expert classes are nowhere in sight anyway.

Recruited a Dragonfly and replaced my trusty RedCap Ninja with her. Now level 10, she's obviously not as good as the level 15 RedCap yet. Lands few hits and is very squishy. So I trained her in the back row. But I can already see her becoming a status affliction/critical monster. Her base beheading chance at 25% is only 5% higher then RedCap, but on top of that she has a monstrous 35% Charm chance and a slight (5%) chance to Sleep, Paralyze and Poison. Plus whatever I put on her weapons. For now she's a keeper.

Then I decided to teach the Summoner (former Cleric) a few new tricks and multi-classed him to Mage (paid to get him to level 11). Once he reaches level 13, I will immediately multiclass him again and will probably also teach him some Alchemy before settling for Summoner for good and going for Blood Oath.

Then I've poke-balled a Nine-Eyes (apparently called Cyclops in some sources... sure looks like one). Lack of Turn Recovery is slightly disappointing, but has Group Attack and many spells plus decent Giant-race status resistances (50% Behead resist). A slight chance to land confuse. Plus she's kinda cute. Decided to bench my Fairy Brawler for whom there was next to none equipment and which was dying and aging FAST and made the Nine-Eyes a monster adventurer. Actually I found I had some nice equipment stored for her at the shop. Havoc Hammer (same as she was using as a monster), Champion's Belt (bonus damage to Thiefs and Clerics), Woodsman's Boots (bonus damage to Animals and Mythical creatures), Evil Bascinet (50% Dark resist), Power Glove, some -4AC armor. For now she won't benefit from using the class AC reduction trait anyway.
Plus she knows some mage and cleric spells. And a lot of Alchemy spells and apparently will learn even more from her unlocked spell levels. Overall a nice character.

Though not sure yet if she will be a long term keeper. Once my Summoner (currently mage, prolly alchemist next) reaches Summoner level 26 (or 27?) I will try to poke-ball a Tempest Efreet (90% resistance) and make her into a brawler. No spells but godly status, water and thunder resistances plus very nice 30 HP turn recovery. And a slight behead chance.
But let's see if I still have a patience to level a new character at that point.
Might also try for a Nue Samurai with Weapon Break and very high status affliction rates and/or a Don Mag Mage with crazy elemental attack boosts.

Oh and I've found out that wikia is wrong and apparently all monster adventurers which are reborn as Devilish race share the same base stats.

 

[Haplo]

I've explored a large part of the House of Ulm Zakir, but on the 3rd basement level some nasty new enemies started to appear (Lamias, Succubi, Inkubi, Chimera) in the anti-magic zones. Without magic support I decided to leave for now with my underleveled party (only Valkyrie is level 22 and Alchemist 24, the Brawler is 12, Ninja 13, Summoner 11, Bishop like 15-16) and explore elsewhere.

Beaten Rosslie Ruins and proceeded to clear the Afun Zar Light caves. Was easy enough, finally a mostly straightforward area (but still with a little of verticality with certain areas only accessible from certain ladders). Till I reached the bottom, 4th level. Here the shit got real with hordes of Holy Breath spamming Wyverns Elementals and groups of Fireflies (again, Holy Breath spamming + Lightning spells + servant full heals). Often Bicorns in the mix, with a high behead chance. And those annoying Manhunters, who all act before my characters and are pretty dangerous in large groups, especially for my back row.

Bicorns have group attack and could make for some nasty Brawlers with 20% Behead and 44 HP Turn recovery plus some decent resistances. But according to the Japanese Wiki, they are reborn as Warrior... that's too bad. Can't test myself yet, Summoner is still over 10 levels less then the enemy, but even later, the chances to capture a 80% Summon resist monster are not that great. Well, maybe when he's 10 levels HIGHER then the monster (1 in 25... unless I get very lucky with a Clean Hit).

 

[Haplo]

I think I got this. I mean, sure, a spawn of two rows of Wyvern Elementals or damn Fireflies will probably end badly (or with a quick escape). But one row is manageable, as are the other enemies at the bottom of Afun Zar. And they provide nice xp, especially the easy Rainbow Dragons.
Maybe need to farm it a bit to bring up my Dragonfly Ninja and Nine-Eyes Brawler up to speed. Currently level 15 and 14.

Also finally got my first Mastery skills - on my human Alchemist. As expected, the skills start very weak and I guess they only show true potential in the post-game. Although the ability to remove ores from obsolete equipment or to change its function is nice.

In general I'm surprised how much I rely on Alchemy spells for nuking. Pomedoon (fire breath) is my bread-and-butter aoe, even though it only affects the front row. The nice thing is that is scales only off HP and is only resisted by Fire Defense, not by magic resist or reflect barriers. For tougher cookies I use Zeo Nadar. Currently I have 3 Alchemy enabled characters: a pure Human Alchemist, a gnome Summoner (also knows cleric and mage spells) and the Nine-Eyes Brawler (no Pomedoon, but has Zeo Nadar and some buffs/debuffs). The Elf Bishop , with all her mage nukes, does comparatively less damage and I use her more as a crowd controller (has Magic Essence).
I guess Pomedoon will quickly loose its usefulness in the post game, if I ever reach it. Probably will not be very useful in the volcano either.