Dragon Age must sell 2 million copies

[MasterSmithFandango]

Point of clarification: I hate the idea of micro-transactions and DLC, and those I don't think are a good idea. Later down the road, beyond just the ordinary patches, having additional content available to legitimate buyers itself is a good idea.

 

[TheWesDude]

as i have said in other places, i see this as the future...

game companies make a fully featured engine with a basic plot for a main quest, and then make all the side quests and non-necessary content available via DLC which is tied to an account via on their website or some centralized service for this.

 

[Dionysus]

As an example my pal who has the game has found that his client is corrupted, which means when he checks downloadable content nothing shows up, even though he's redeemed the code.

Now, some jackass might say: "But isn't this the pirates' fault?" to which I would reply: "Of course it is." There is no other way to see it. But does it keep pirates away from accessing the content? Nope. So, like any DRM, the result is only hassle for legitimate clients.

The Stone Prisoner DLC doesn't really have anything to do with piracy. It's an attempt to reward gamers that buy the game new rather than used. For publishers, used game sales are a much more obvious and easily quantified problem than piracy.

 

[Grunker]

As an example my pal who has the game has found that his client is corrupted, which means when he checks downloadable content nothing shows up, even though he's redeemed the code.

Now, some jackass might say: "But isn't this the pirates' fault?" to which I would reply: "Of course it is." There is no other way to see it. But does it keep pirates away from accessing the content? Nope. So, like any DRM, the result is only hassle for legitimate clients.

The Stone Prisoner DLC doesn't really have anything to do with piracy. It's an attempt to reward gamers that buy the game new rather than used. For publishers, used game sales are a much more obvious and easily quantified problem than piracy.

A bold claim. Got any proof besides offial BioWare statements?

'cause you know, it seems to aim at combating both.

 

[Dionysus]

A bold claim. Got any proof besides offial BioWare statements?

'cause you know, it seems to aim at combating both.

How do you figure? It doesn't seem like it would be an efficient method for combating piracy, but I can see how this sort of thing could reduce used-game sales, particularly at the big retailers.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I daresay the PC version of DA is where the money is, since that is the one that is selling the best. All the consoletards are buying MW2 right now, they don't have time for an RPG, and certainly not a medieval one. The PC has problems with piracy but definitely not second-hand sales.

 

[Grunker]

A bold claim. Got any proof besides offial BioWare statements?

'cause you know, it seems to aim at combating both.

How do you figure? It doesn't seem like it would be an efficient method for combating piracy, but I can see how this sort of thing could reduce used-game sales, particularly at the big retailers.

No DRM ever is effective at stopping piracy, but that doesn't stop the industry from using it anyway. I see what you're saying, and there's no way to know for sure, so we'd just be guessing.

 

[treave]

No DRM ever is effective at stopping piracy, but that doesn't stop the industry from using it anyway. I see what you're saying, and there's no way to know for sure, so we'd just be guessing.

Whoa, the piracy argument is still ongoing.

Regarding the DLC, it seemed to be a tad more protected than the main game. Would be interesting to know how many people succumbed to the 'frustration' of having to play minus party storage and an extra companion and bought the DLC instead of waiting about a week for it to be cracked. I mean, if warez-site impatient whining was any indicator...

 

[Grifthin]

Well you don't need the storage the DLC provides. You can have up 120 STACKS of items in your inventory. So it doesn't matter if you carry 50 chainmail shirts or 1, they take up 1 stack. I don't know how people can packrat that much stuff.

 

[Volourn]

"I daresay the PC version of DA is where the money is, since that is the one that is selling the best."

Proof? Console versions solid 450k combined in first week. Nothing on PC sales yet.

 

[treave]

Well you don't need the storage the DLC provides. You can have up 120 STACKS of items in your inventory. So it doesn't matter if you carry 50 chainmail shirts or 1, they take up 1 stack. I don't know how people can packrat that much stuff.

Well, every different type of item takes up one slot. Crafting components, traps, potions and runes, if you hoard them, may end up taking quite some space. But personally I have no beef with the amount of space available.

My own issue with the storage is that I'd much prefer it to be separated by party members, not pooled together. It's easier for me to have, say, homo-elf's inventory screen up and see only the items I've put there for his use, rather than having to scroll through a half dozen different mage items.

 

[GarfunkeL]

There is no fucking excuse for a combined inventory. It's a jrpg-trope plain simple which is perhaps justified when the game switched party members around and stuff like in some jrpg's.

 

[Grifthin]

You do switch characters out. Besides why not - is there any reason why you should have to fiddle with witheach individuel characters inventory when you can just dump everything together and work with it communally.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Regarding combined inventories, I always assumed the party was trading items between themselves already, and they (developers) don't felt the need to make me do it for some reason, like preference

I suppose it makes combat easier, which is bad

 

[treave]

You do switch characters out. Besides why not - is there any reason why you should have to fiddle with witheach individuel characters inventory when you can just dump everything together and work with it communally.

It's neater and more organized to have separate packs. His and Hers. I'm quite anal about organization. Hell, I'm not even complaining about not getting containers to manually sort my stuff out in.

 

[made]

The inventory is mostly fine, apart from the "gotta catch em all" backpack minigame. It could, however, use more filters. The tab where potions go is just a huge mess of pots, poisons, traps, gifts and various random stuff.

 

[poocolator]

Also, filthy pirates are killing the gaming industry by taking what they want (Modern Warfare 2, for example) without paying for it.

A single tear rolls down my cheek...

 

[GarfunkeL]

You do switch characters out. Besides why not - is there any reason why you should have to fiddle with witheach individuel characters inventory when you can just dump everything together and work with it communally.

Bwaaaaa bwaaa. Your main character is there all the time, so no. I was talking about jrpg's where the game might switch from one party to another and sometimes did it without warning, in which case it would have been too hardcore for japs to stick with individual inventories, especially with NES/SNES-level.

And to your second argument, let me answer with a question or two:

Is there any reason why you should have to fiddle with each individual characters stats when you can just dump stat screens and let the game auto-level you?

Is there any reason why you should have to fiddle with each individual characters tactics page when you can just dump it all and let the game do it for you?

Is there any reason why you should have to fiddle with a game at all since they could have just made a CGI-movie?

Awesome logic.

"We need to make it realtime, otherwise players will be bored!"
"We need to streamline the system since D&D is too hardcore!"
"We need to voice every line of dialog since reading is too difficult!"
"We need to enable DLC-bying in-game since players are too dumb to visit our site!"

Soon it will be:

"We need to make it so that the player only has to push a single button, using a mouse+keyboard requires too much dexterity from the fat slobs! Better make it so that on easy they only need to press it once!"

At each fucking step fuckers like you defend the lowest common denominator and lazy/greedy/retard devs and happily keep shoveling cash to them.

 

[Grifthin]

GarfunkeL - Go wash the sand out of your vagina dude. It's my opinion. As for your rather sarcastic questions since you seem incapable of answering them yourself:

You fiddle with each characters stats to build them the way you want them. Now I'm sure you could argue that giving each character certain items is a extention of that, and I'll agree that It's another method of doing things. I don't mind either way, seperate or combined inventory's it makes no difference. Example - in Icewind dale my fighters always have the strong back feat so as to be able to carry massive loads, ending up with all my stuff in 1 inventory ANYWAY.

You don't have to fiddle with tactics - you could select a preset. Some gamers don't want to fiddle with tactics. So fuck em, give them a option. For people like me who love customizing their ai scripts it atleast gives us the choice.

As for your last "question" - don't be retarded please. Both can be a entertainment medium, and people who find the game to hard or games not to their likeing will probably gravitate towards movies anyway.

AS for :
"We need to make it realtime, otherwise players will be bored!"
"We need to streamline the system since D&D is too hardcore!"
"We need to voice every line of dialog since reading is too difficult!"
"We need to enable DLC-bying in-game since players are too dumb to visit our site!"

I prefer realtime, turn based is nice, but I like realtime better. Some people like turn based, some people like real time. It's just one of those things.

It's nice to see them moving away from the dnd licenses as it allows them to do things differently. New IPs = good. Don't get me wrong I love Dnd, and have spent many evenings rolling Dice with friends, but the DND rule set requires alot of time invested in it to learn it. Many casual gamers either don't have that time or are unwilling to do so.

I love reading and games like Dragon Age have tons of Codex entry's to read. The VO's help give a strong delivery of certain scenarios. Reading is well and good, but some scene's just have more impact when you have a villians voice booming over your speakers.

DLC buying ingame is convenient. It means it will download and install in the background while you play. I have no hassles with this, as I don't need to stop playing just to install a DLC. I can carry on and when it's done my journal updates to let me know. I prefer it myself.

So no, I don't defend the lowest common denominator - but I realize that there's many positives to the negatives. So fuck you, you negative prick. Opinions will differ between people. No need to be a prick about it, kay ?

 

[Grifthin]

If you had even tried to respond in a more verbose fashion indicating that you had perhaps read what I wrote, I might have been impressed. Pass.

 

[Grifthin]

Or you could just buy it off the Menu when you start the game up. You know, New game, Load, options etc - just select DLC, click what you want, let it download, play game while it downloads. Never see a npc that offers you the content.

Some games do have advertisements in them, and it doesn't prove horribly detrimental to them. Anarchy online incorporates them (I know it's not the largest game in the world). But yes advertisements in a fantasy/sci-fi game would be irritating if it were for Toyata or Coke adds.

Which stats are not well thought out and why ?

 

[Dnny]

There is no fucking excuse for a combined inventory. It's a jrpg-trope plain simple which is perhaps justified when the game switched party members around and stuff like in some jrpg's.

The inventory is probably one of DA biggest flaws and feels a bit like it was tailored for consoles, just like Oblivion interface.

The inventory of DA is shown as a textual list which is very painful to both manipulate with the mouse and painful to find shit when it gets filled up. Lists are only somewhat ok when you are constrained to a gamepad as the sole input device as you can only use up and down to select and left/right to change categories.

I blame the xbox. Since Microsoft created the xbox almost, if not ALL, of the games that has come to the PC have been copying console interfaces and have killed the usefulness of the mouse. No matter how one hates Bethesda remember that all of its game were tailored for the PC... until they witnessed the success of their port of morrowind on the xbox. Since then, all games were created for the xbox first and pc second.

Before the xbox there was a distinct, different cultures to the console and pc games. Since the xbox and the advent of Microsoft development tools that allow easy port between PC and xbox the distinction has been blurred and biaised toward consoles.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Really good justifications there. Congratulations for spotting sarcasm there. Too bad you missed my point - that a joined-at-hip inventory list is nothing but one more step on the consolisation of games.

In Icewind dale my fighters always have the strong back feat so as to be able to carry massive loads, ending up with all my stuff in 1 inventory ANYWAY.

Wasting a feat on that? Lesi is absolutely correct about you. Let me reiterate: unified inventory doesn't matter because you stuffed everything on one char before, ANYWAY? That's like saying that it doesn't matter that Oblivion had no crossbows, since you didn't use them in any previous RPG.

You don't have to fiddle with tactics - you could select a preset.

That's really not what I meant there...

Both can be a entertainment medium, and people who find the game to hard or games not to their likeing will probably gravitate towards movies anyway.

The why the fuck do they need to keep making games more and more like shitty movies instead of keeping them games? For crying out loud, you are just like those idiots who in the 90's defended game companies who filled their games with "real" actors to make it more "cinematic experience", while usually shafting gameplay.

Some people like turn based, some people like real time. It's just one of those things.

No it's not. TB is always superior to RT when you have party/squad-based game. Don't even go down that alley. If you whether you want your game to have elves or not is "one of those things", fundamental game dev issues are not.

but the DND rule set requires alot of time invested in it to learn it.

The fuck it does. If you are actually able to read and do simple arithmetic, learning 2nd edition D&D takes under 10 minutes. Seriously, unless you are clinically retarded, D&D is very simple. What you (probably) mean is that it takes time to MEMORIZE every spell and feat that the various D&D books have. Good thing that's not necessary to actually play a D&D game! It's enough if the game includes spell/feat-descriptions.

Many casual gamers either don't have that time or are unwilling to do so.

Great! So they should stick to Mario and Final Fantasy then.

when you have a villians voice booming over your speakers.

Again, that's not a problem. The problem is when every single dialog-line in the game is voiced which usually means that most of them are voiced badly. Plus it puts a limit to the dialog-writers.

DLC buying ingame is convenient.

As is auto-regeneration. As is the minimizing of conversation skills. As is auto-leveling/auto-"tactics"/auto-whatever.

I bet you would still defend game devs when in 2087 the newest XBOX hit-game has 35 minutes of CGI-movie and the player has to press the only button on their gamepad (which hovers by itself so gamers don't have to waste energy holding them up) once. It used to be twice but betatesters complained about the strain.

Because that's the future of your arguments - "so convenient, not worth the hassle, quicker, easier, simpler".

 

[Grifthin]

@ GarfunkeL

Why is a unified inventory such a problem ? Why ? Besides in dnd your fighter gets millions of feats. It's not like 1 less is gonna kill him. Why give a player access to the strong back feat in a Pc game if he shouldn't use it. It's not a power gamer choice, but it atleast prevents me from having to scroll through 6 inventory screens every time I'm looking for something. You don't want to use it - fine. If I want to use it, it's there. Why the big boohoo over it ?

As for games and movies - I will be the first to agree that the majority of movies (and games) are crap. But games can learn from movies none the less, camera angles and sound etc - directing. There's nothing wrong with a game giving you some cinematic moments.

I prefer realtime strategy to turn based strategy if I want a action packed game. I prefer 4x strategy games if I have a evening to kill and just wanna sit there and conquer the ingame world. Why should RT be considered inferior to turn based.

Dnd is not easy to learn - especially if you learn different editions, take someone who played BG and try and explain to him that THAC0 is gone, and how lower is better in thaco, but AC getting higher is better. Most people go - meh - I just wanna hit the monster, not worry about this stuff. unfortunately, like it or not, the casual crowd outnumbers us by a large margin, so making games that appeal to them makes sense.

Who are we to dicate what games casual gamers, can and can't play. As for the dialogue - I find that the majority is well acted. There's a few almost cringe inducing moments in games like mass effect or dragon age, but nothing that would make me wish that it was all silent.

Why is Auto-regeneration bad ? They penalize you if you die. It's just like saving and reloading in Baldurs gate, minus the annoying loading screen. With either one you end up with less resources after the battle - a series of encounters will still wear down your resources.

Tactics hardly win you the game - they just help you configure your party's action for when your not directly controlling them - just like the infinity engine games. Granted with slightly less options.

Auto levelling is retarded if you want to play a certain character I agree. But if your just playing to see the story many people don't really care to spec out a character and just takes whatever the game assigns them. If they want to do that, let them. For the rest of us we still have the option to level as normal.

As for defending the the 2087 xbox hit games - if they where advertised as a 35 minute CGI movie requiring 1 click. And people where bashing it for being such - then perhaps. If it was advertised as a 40 hour compelling story and turned into a 30 minute movie I would be out there with my pitchfork and torch too.

What's wrong with making things more convenient - how does it make a game better if it's more cumbersome to do things ?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

What's wrong with making things more convenient - how does it make a game better if it's more cumbersome to do things ?

It doesn't. The thing is you two disagree on what is considered a hassle. You don't mind unified inventories, Garf dislikes them, etc.