Dragon Age must sell 2 million copies

[Volourn]

Bring. it. on.

 

[Pablosdog]

As long as things like tactical combat/pnp mechanics are in, then I'm fine.

I just don't see what the huge problem is. In a party based game like Dragon age, a universal inventory system is a good thing. For a game like fallout or other rpgs in which you don't have direct control over party members, then I can see how that system wouldn't make much sense.


*Edit*

Dnd is actually a pretty easy system to learn( i can dm a 4th edition campaign without pretty much ever looking in a 4th e book with the right amount of organization) hell, the FIRST edition of dnd wasn't overly complicated.


As long as this doesn't effect c and c, or change combat, or change how well written the dialogue is, I can honestly care less

 

[blackshoe]

Hopefully it'll sell like 100 copies on the PC and Bioware will finally get the message and quit making PC games.

Their shitty games belong on the PS3 or something.

So much hate in this one... Well, at least if Skyway gets hit by a bus, we'll have a backup ready in no time.

u mad bro cuz skyway makes u look st00pid?

 

[Volourn]

Only one skyway makes look stupid is himself.

 

[BLOBERT]

HAHAHHAAH YOU LOOK LIKE A DOOSHBAG CAUSE SKYWAY ONLY LIKES GOOD GAMES LIKE PRINS OF PERSIA 3D HOW ABOUT YOU TAKE YOUR RETARTED NEXT GEN 3D DRAGON AGE BACK TO GAMEFAGS

 

[Volourn]

I didn't buy it from you. Sorry.

 

[GarfunkeL]

In a party based game like Dragon age, a universal inventory system is a good thing.

No it's not. Your party is in the middle of the combat, with the party members separated from each other by several meters. Fighter gets seriously hurt. Oops, you forgot to give her healing potions (or she ran out) - now cleric has to run over to the fighter, abandoning her position, possibly allowing the enemy to crash your wizard. Or, someone else has to pass a healing potion to the fighter, possibly also having to move around. Or she gets killed/knocked out.

When you remove individual inventories, you remove one element of thinking/tactics. "I only have 3 healing potions but I have 6 party members, who should I prioritize?" Scratch that, we avoided little hassle, who cares if we became little more dumb in the process.

Oh, the party is facing a demilich who can only be hurt by +4 weapons or better. No fear, Conan at the front-row has BattleAxe of BadAssery +4. But what's this? Conan fails his saving throw and the demilich turns him into a puddle of blood on the floor. You are screwed until you get another party member to dig through Conan's possessions now lying on the floor, hopefully recovering the axe before the demilich rapes the rest of your party.
In DA, that would be: "oh, pause, move axe into the inventory, now who should use it? Oh, yeah, Lancelot back there, half-a-mile from Conan, he has the best axe-skill, nevermind he's that far, we have unified party inventory, there we go".

Still saying that it doesn't matter?

 

[made]

A shared inventory is gnerally ok for the convenience imo. What's not ok is equipping whole suits of armor while in combat. Or pausing the game to craft potions and traps while a fucking ogre is beating on you.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

In DA, that would be: "oh, pause, move axe into the inventory, now who should use it? Oh, yeah, Lancelot back there, half-a-mile from Conan, he has the best axe-skill, nevermind he's that far, we have unified party inventory, there we go".

Still saying that it doesn't matter?

Can you interact with fallen party members?

 

[Reject_666_6]

BLOBERT vs Volourn. Which is better and why?

Discuss!!!

 

[Norfleet]

No it's not. Your party is in the middle of the combat, with the party members separated from each other by several meters. Fighter gets seriously hurt. Oops, you forgot to give her healing potions (or she ran out) - now cleric has to run over to the fighter, abandoning her position, possibly allowing the enemy to crash your wizard. Or, someone else has to pass a healing potion to the fighter, possibly also having to move around. Or she gets killed/knocked out.

That is pretty much the ONLY argument in favor of individual inventories. In exchange, it adds a great deal of hassle at every other point in the game. As for the wizard-crashing thing, have you actually PLAYED DA? There is absolutely *NO* way to stop ANYONE from going ANYWHERE. You only have 4 partymembers, making it impossible to form a shield around anyone, even if the engine supported such a thing, as it is still impossible to block a doorway by stationing a fighter in it, they will still swarm around him. There is absolutely NO way you can stop any enemy from attacking any partymember they please, and there's no penalty for moving about, as there is no attack of opportunity mechanic. This is not D&D.

When you remove individual inventories, you remove one element of thinking/tactics. "I only have 3 healing potions but I have 6 party members, who should I prioritize?"

You get *4* partymembers. Healing potions are invariably out the wazoo in this game. This represents an obscure corner case and if you allow your party to get into this state in DA, you probably have way bigger issues to deal with.

Oh, the party is facing a demilich who can only be hurt by +4 weapons or better. No fear, Conan at the front-row has BattleAxe of BadAssery +4. But what's this? Conan fails his saving throw and the demilich turns him into a puddle of blood on the floor. You are screwed until you get another party member to dig through Conan's possessions now lying on the floor, hopefully recovering the axe before the demilich rapes the rest of your party.

There are no such enemies or weapons in DA. And you can't drop items on the floor in DA. EVER! Since nothing can ever be simply arbitrarily dropped on the floor, let alone retrieved later, this is kind of a pointless argument.

In DA, that would be: "oh, pause, move axe into the inventory, now who should use it? Oh, yeah, Lancelot back there, half-a-mile from Conan, he has the best axe-skill, nevermind he's that far, we have unified party inventory, there we go".

There's no axe skill. The weapons are pretty much all generic, and there is no special reason why you would need to transfer a weapon.

Still saying that it doesn't matter?

Yeah, I'm saying it doesn't matter. DA is just not that kind of game. The fact of the matter is that the underlying tactical depth is not sufficient to justify adding this particular point of minutiae. It'd be like adding rules for troop morale to Risk.

A shared inventory is gnerally ok for the convenience imo. What's not ok is equipping whole suits of armor while in combat.

I don't really know why that is allowed, it's certainly something that the engine should be able to prohibit. It was in NWN. But then, why would you bother? There's no particular pieces of armor that would justify doing this with in pretty much 99% of the cases.

Or pausing the game to craft potions and traps while a fucking ogre is beating on you.

I figure they retroactively assume the potions were crafted at some point in the past. Does it really make a difference to have Schrodinger's Potion Crafting? I cannot think of any particular point at which this represents a critical strategic decision...given that DA is not a game where supply and logistics plays any real role at all.

 

[Grifthin]

I agree with GarfunkeL (to a extent). In the cases he posted unified is worse, however preventing the party from switching armor/weapons/items during combat is a simple solution for this problem. You keep the convenience of being able to sort/use items while exploring - but in combat your stuck with what your equiped with.

 

[SerratedBiz]

There is absolutely *NO* way to stop ANYONE from going ANYWHERE. You only have 4 partymembers

NO way you can stop any enemy from attacking any partymember they please, and there's no penalty for moving about,

You get *4* partymembers. Healing potions are invariably out the wazoo in this game.

There are no such enemies or weapons in DA.

. The weapons are pretty much all generic, and there is no special reason why you would need to transfer a weapon.

But then, why would you bother? There's no particular pieces of armor that would justify doing this with in pretty much 99% of the cases.

.given that DA is not a game where supply and logistics plays any real role at all.

DA is just not that kind of game

You said it best.

 

[1eyedking]

A shared inventory is gnerally ok for the convenience imo. What's not ok is equipping whole suits of armor while in combat. Or pausing the game to craft potions and traps while a fucking ogre is beating on you.

Let's add Autocrafting to the already large "Auto" Dragon Age list.

Also, this:

No it's not. Your party is in the middle of the combat, with the party members separated from each other by several meters. Fighter gets seriously hurt. Oops, you forgot to give her healing potions (or she ran out) - now cleric has to run over to the fighter, abandoning her position, possibly allowing the enemy to crash your wizard. Or, someone else has to pass a healing potion to the fighter, possibly also having to move around. Or she gets killed/knocked out.

When you remove individual inventories, you remove one element of thinking/tactics. "I only have 3 healing potions but I have 6 party members, who should I prioritize?" Scratch that, we avoided little hassle, who cares if we became little more dumb in the process.

Oh, the party is facing a demilich who can only be hurt by +4 weapons or better. No fear, Conan at the front-row has BattleAxe of BadAssery +4. But what's this? Conan fails his saving throw and the demilich turns him into a puddle of blood on the floor. You are screwed until you get another party member to dig through Conan's possessions now lying on the floor, hopefully recovering the axe before the demilich rapes the rest of your party.
In DA, that would be: "oh, pause, move axe into the inventory, now who should use it? Oh, yeah, Lancelot back there, half-a-mile from Conan, he has the best axe-skill, nevermind he's that far, we have unified party inventory, there we go".

Still saying that it doesn't matter?

 

[BLOBERT]

VOLRON IS JUST ANOTHER SHEEPLE SUCKING DOWN WHATEVER BIOWHORE GIVES THEM

 

[Lesifoere]

Oh, the party is facing a demilich who can only be hurt by +4 weapons or better. No fear, Conan at the front-row has BattleAxe of BadAssery +4.

I miss damage immunity. Like how, in the IE games, skeletons were hard to damage with bladed weapons but easy with bludgeoning ones. It actually forces you to think a little, not just run in and have a go with whatever weapon is to hand. There's some damage-immune enemies in DA (like, well, fire demons immune to fire and undead immune to... nature damage? Or spirit, not sure which), but essentially there's no real difference between arcane-bolting or lighting-bolting a target. Apart from the sparkles. And the way walking bomb can make wisps explode into blood and chunks of flesh.

 

[Pablosdog]

I...actually agree with Garfunkel in that regard. I guess you could just leave it as singular but with universal storage options before dungeons no?

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

I don't have a problem with unified inventories, it removes hassle.

And how the fuck do stats relate to inventory management?

Str to carry more, dex to grab stuff faster in real time, wisdom so you wont lose stuff, intelligence to pack efficiently, charisma so your clothes dont get wrinkled and stink, and constitution in the event that one of your poison flask bust and you inhale that shit.

 

[aboyd]

You said it best.

Wow. Yes, when you line up Norfleet's quotes, his defense of DA is really quite an indictment of DA.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

BLOBERT vs Volourn. Which is better and why?

Discuss!!!

BLOBERT because at least you can tell from his first posts that he actually has a functioning brain.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Norfleet, thanks for proving my point. I'm sorry I didn't write it clearly at the start but I wasn't talking about DA specifically (anymore), but rather RPG's in general. Since nearly everyone agrees that 6 party members > 4 party members, I used that GoldBox/IE-standard as the definition.

In exchange, it adds a great deal of hassle at every other point in the game.

I can understand that in GoldBox games where you had to push several buttons on the keyboard in order to move items between characters, but in IE/Darksun games where you had to drag an item for a few centimeters? Calling it a hassle is promoting hassle to a level it does not deserve. Seriously.

There is absolutely *NO* way to stop ANYONE from going ANYWHERE.

My post wasn't about DA specifically - more about the current trends and how many players do not realize where they are heading when they whole-heartedly endorse current trends. But I'm happy that my non-purchase of DA is again justified. Why add MMO-aggro-talents in the game if they don't even work?

still impossible to block a doorway by stationing a fighter in it

OMG. That is so wrong in so many levels I can't believe that it's true, even in DA. Can enemies really move through your characters? If the game has no collision detection, you can kiss tactics goodbye - except in the jrpg-sense of using specific ability at specific moment.

there's no penalty for moving about, as there is no attack of opportunity mechanic.

Another notch on the totem pole of turn-based combat. Yes please, let's move towards that direction.

if you allow your party to get into this state in DA, you probably have way bigger issues to deal with.

Ah, but the game then removes that issue from you! It does not matter if you have been a crappy player and you only have 3 potions or not, because any character can use those potions whenever they want.

There's no axe skill.

Apparently no-one ever thought to use an axe in combat in THEDAS (THE Dragon Age Setting). Nah, I'm just yanking your chain, I know, there are no weapon skills in the game. True story, those weapon skills would have just overloaded the simple brains of casual gamers. It's true! DnD is way too complicated for them!

The weapons are pretty much all generic

So Diablo > DA? At least you had some memorable weapons. Yes, I am a bastard and playing devils advocate.

Yeah, I'm saying it doesn't matter. DA is just not that kind of game. It'd be like adding rules for troop morale to Risk.

So then we both agree that DA is a dumbed down, consolized lite-RPG meant for the lowest common denominator - like Risk is?

But then, why would you bother?

Why indeed. Why bother with challenging combat or engaging plot/writing, interesting loot, memorable characters, awesome soundtrack or any of the staples of games that were done 10-20 years ago? After all, we are only making a 100 million $ piece of elevator muzak that sheeple can consume between contemplating suicide and buying the next DVD-release of "Britain Got Talent".

I figure they retroactively assume the potions were crafted at some point in the past.

Because admitting that the game is retarded is too much to swallow after you have already swallowed a good dose of Gaider's cum, Frank Gibeau's cum, John Riccitiello's cum and the sloppy assfuck from both the good Doctors. It's better to think that the potions and kits you craft while paused during combat in the deep dungeons beneath the dwarf cities were actually crafted back at base camp hours ago. Because that makes so much more sense.

I cannot think of any particular point at which this represents a critical strategic decision

And you still think that there is nothing wrong with the game? GOTY 2009!

A shared inventory is gnerally ok for the convenience imo.

MADE, did you even read what I posted?

I...actually agree with Garfunkel in that regard.
I agree with GarfunkeL (to a extent).

Maybe there is still hope for you two, Grifthin and Pablosdog.

 

[DreadMessiah]

Note all below will mostly effect white named enemies with yellow titled enemies having a better chance to resist and less time affected and orange/red titled enemies (usually bosses) with even greater resistence and less time affected. Resistence can be physical or mental.

Talents:
2handed weapon:
Pommel strike- has a chance to knock an enemy down.

Stunning blows- passive with ability on any hit to possibly stun enemy.

Two handed swipe- Swung in an arc. Enemies that are hit face knockdown.

Sword/shield:
Shield bash- Knock down.

Shield Pummel- three hits then stun.

Assualt- Three hits with third being a crit. Knockdown.

Dual weapons:
Riposte- Stunning effect with a crit hit following if first attack hits. Stun.

Rogue:

Dirty fighting- Stun.

Wardog Talents for dog:

Dread Howl- aoe stun. Medium duration.

Overwhelm- Incapacitates enemy by knocking down and ripping the enemy apart. Nasty to face when wolves (lower levels can be very nasty), Werewolves (very nasty), and Dragon (You are dead) use it. Possible to stop with stun/paralyze/knockdown abilities.

Charge- Nockdown.

Archery:
Pinning shot- Shot pins enemies foot to the ground. Stops attack/holds in place.

Shattering Shot- Shot has chance to knock oppenent down. Also better armor penetration for a time.

Scatter Shot- Hit one target then within aoe short hit other targets. Does damage and short stun.

Magic spells:
Cone of Cold- Freeze enemies - Possible to shatter(instant kill) them on crit with weapon or with stonefist spell.

Fireball- Damage and knockdown aoe. Initial fire damage + burning effect.

Stonefist- one enemy even bosses knockdown for short duration + damage.

Glyph of paralyzation- Use as trap or cast on an enemy directly for effect. Goodish duration.

Glyph of repulsion- Good control for small area or party from melee based opponents. Cast on ground and stand within or place at choke point. Enemies can resist though if they fail they fly backwards and fall to ground unless certain creatures which just collapse to ground at edge and then usually ignore it when they get back up.

Glyph of Paralyzation + Repulsion - aoe paralyzation. Friendly fire possible. Spell combo feature.

Earthquake- aoe knockdown possible if enemy is trying to move through. Ranged enemies can stand still fine within in the spells aoe.

Petrify - Single target. Can shatter even bosses with this and Crushing prison together or so I have read. Never used this spell and only crushing prison in one part of the game.

Crushing Prison- Immobilize single enemy and do damage over time. Enemy can be affected by other sources of damage.

Force Field- Immobilize single enemy. No damage will get through. Also can use on party member. Good duration and works really well.

Mind Blast- Short duration aoe stun.

Horror- Single target stun. good duration.

Sleep- aoe with good size and long duration. Enemy takes damage = wakes up.

Waking Nightmare- aoe smallish. Long duration. Enemies may attack each other/stand there with a dumb look on their faces/attack your party.

Specializations also have abilities:

Bard has a stunning song. Must stand still/no attack. Close enemies can be stunned until they pass mental check every so often and must continue to pass while within the aoe.

Shapeshifter- Spider form has web. Immobilize an enemy. I believe with mastery gains overwhelm. Bear form gains overwhelm as well.

Blood mage:

Blood wound- aoe damage/stun. Creatures without blood are immune.

Blood control- Charm type ability. If the enemy passes mental resistence check takes damage instead. Possible boss control :D

Champion- Warcry + Superiority- aoe knockdown around champion.

Helps control the environment. Also possible to use poisons/traps at times to control the crowd :D Might be better than a fighter in a door?

 

[Volourn]

"Why add MMO-aggro-talents in the game if they don't even work? "

What a fuckin' idiot you are. They very much work.