Dragon Age: Inquisition Pre-Release Thread

[Gord]

This is about Lords of the Fallen DRM, Denuvo, which is the exact same DA: I is using:

"Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking
Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are fucked around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullshit usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."

While that does sound like some totally inane coding there, if true, I still doubt that it's nearly as bad for SSDs as that guy makes it out to be.
I would assume that the wear levelling algorithm of SSDs will ensure that it's not the same block written to every time and endurance tests of recent consumer SSDs suggest that the (total) amount of data written onto those drives before you will start seeing bad blocks is in the order of 100+ terrabytes, something way beyond what we see here (of course that also depends on the size of the SSD, larger ones should be less affected).

Still, DRM sucks.

 

[Raghar]

This is about Lords of the Fallen DRM, Denuvo, which is the exact same DA: I is using:

"Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking
Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are fucked around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullshit usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."

Do you have link on this on LOTF forums? I'd like to look at post around it.

 

[Tacgnol]

This is about Lords of the Fallen DRM, Denuvo, which is the exact same DA: I is using:

"Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking
Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are fucked around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullshit usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."

Do you have the original source of this post? It's being quoted on a lot of forums and I want to do more research.

 

[Delterius]

Criticism of Lords of the Fallen performance is quite diffuse and all over the net, just as claims that its use of Denuvo is responsible for those issues. It wouldn't be the first time that a new layer of DRM is responsible for losses in performance. On the other hand, many are claiming that FIFA 15's use of Denuvo didn't lead to losses but then again its fucking FIFA.

Supposedly the developers of Lords of the Fallen outright admitted on a stream that there would be a '1 to 5%' loss.

So far its all very much full of hearsay. My google fu is currently suffering of a circumstance negative bonus due to flu.

 

[MicoSelva]

Holy shit, invasive DRM in 2015 2014. I thought we have gone beyond such silliness.
And all future Warner Brothers published games are supposed to be using this? Does that also mean the North American version of supposedly DRM-free The Witcher 3? Because that would be somewhat hilarious.

Hopefully it will get patched out of DA:I in a few years - I am not in a hurry to play this, so I can wait.

 

[Jaedar]

Holy shit, invasive DRM in 2015 2014. I thought we have gone beyond such silliness.
And all future Warner Brothers published games are supposed to be using this? Does that also mean the North American version of supposedly DRM-free The Witcher 3? Because that would be somewhat hilarious.

Hopefully it will get patched out of DA:I in a few years - I am not in a hurry to play this, so I can wait.

Invasive DRM never stopped, you just stopped noticing when it was just called "steam" and came with bonus features.

 

[Scroo]

So it received 59 % from a German magazine.

http://www.4players.de/4players.php...est/32927/80791/0/Dragon_Age_Inquisition.html

Conclusion: It's a themepark, but story, characters, quests, explorations and minigames suck big time

 

[MicoSelva]

Invasive DRM never stopped, you just stopped noticing when it was just called "steam" and came with bonus features.

Steam = DRM. Uh-huh.

How about you read more on the subject and then we can continue with this conversation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)#Software_delivery_and_maintenance
http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Steam_authentication

 

[MrMarbles]

First of all none of those games, baring Planescape torment, had a good story. They had a competent story (if that) backed up by good atmosphere and good/decent/challenging gameplay.

If the story in BG2, Fallout(s), Arcanum and Bloodlines doesn't measure up, which games in your opinion (besides PT) have a story that is good? Not trolling, if there are games out there with better stories then I'll want to play them.

 

[imweasel]

Most games on Steam uses Gaben's DRM.

So it received 59 % from a German magazine.

http://www.4players.de/4players.php...est/32927/80791/0/Dragon_Age_Inquisition.html

Conclusion: It's a themepark, but story, characters, quests, explorations and minigames suck big time

Same for Skyrim, but they still gave that game a 90% rating.

 

[cvv]

First of all none of those games, baring Planescape torment, had a good story. They had a competent story (if that) backed up by good atmosphere and good/decent/challenging gameplay.

If the story in BG2, Fallout(s), Arcanum and Bloodlines doesn't measure up, which games in your opinion (besides PT) have a story that is good? Not trolling, if there are games out there with better stories then I'll want to play them.

Story-wise vast majority of RPGs have always been decidedly young adult material. In book terms that's Eragon or Harry Potter territory for you. Lowest common denominator 2OP to resist.

Can't really think of many outliers except PST (that was fantasy too but much less inane than normal and much more interesting). Alpha Protocol, Deus Ex, Wasteland 2. I'm sure there are couple more but they're a tiny exception.

It's not a huge deal, nobody here would read young adult stories but in games they can be ignored and we can enjoy the combat/graphics/atmosphere whatever. But when you cross the "several dozens RPGs played" territory all this juvenile shit about dragons and evil wizards starts to make you sick to your stomach and not even a glorious combat system can save the day. Take D:OS - almost everything else in this game is good to great but the story and writing is so junior high it's almost unbearable.

I guess that's the main reason TToN and W2 were so successful on the Starter - all the underserved 30-somethings pitching in to get something more mature out of the industry.

 

[cpmartins]

I did ask for logs, but no response so far. I'm almost in a mind to buy LotF just to take my own measurements. Maybe if I find it cheap enough.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

I guess that's the main reason TToN and W2 were so successful on the Starter - all the underserved 30-somethings pitching in to get something more mature out of the industry.

W2's story is many things, but "mature" it is not. At least not in the sense of serious storytelling. I get that they wanted to do an equivalent of 80s B-movie plot, sometimes successfully, sometimes... not. For example, screaming goat and honey badgers dropping nut sacks as loot kinda clash with Pitbull's "FUKSHAK".

 

[Jaedar]

Invasive DRM never stopped, you just stopped noticing when it was just called "steam" and came with bonus features.

Steam = DRM. Uh-huh.

How about you read more on the subject and then we can continue with this conversation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)#Software_delivery_and_maintenance
http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Steam_authentication

I like how for around half the games on the list of DRM free games, it seems to be a bug/workaround rather than a feature.

Steam is DRM though. It is a lot more as well, which is why people don't seem to mind, and it can certainly be argued it is not invasive. I just don't see how anyone could seriously argue that steam has nothing to do with DRM(which is not necessarily what you are doing). From what you yourself posted

Steam is an internet-based digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer, and social networking platform developed by Valve Corporation.

I don't really see the point of continuing the conversation, since I don't really care about debating to what degree steam is drm and invasive.

 

[SniperHF]

W2's story is many things, but "mature" it is not. At least not in the sense of serious storytelling. I get that they wanted to do an equivalent of 80s B-movie plot, sometimes successfully, sometimes... not. For example, screaming goat and honey badgers dropping nut sacks as loot kinda clash with Pitbull's "FUKSHAK".

Things on Kickstarter are whatever you want them to be in the sales phase. I'm sure some people were expecting something along the lines of Fallout's story. So cvv's idea could easily explain part of the $$$.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

W2's story is many things, but "mature" it is not. At least not in the sense of serious storytelling. I get that they wanted to do an equivalent of 80s B-movie plot, sometimes successfully, sometimes... not. For example, screaming goat and honey badgers dropping nut sacks as loot kinda clash with Pitbull's "FUKSHAK".

Things on Kickstarter are whatever you want them to be in the sales phase. I'm sure some people were expecting something along the lines of Fallout's story. So cvv's idea could easily explain part of the $$$.

Well, Fargo talked a good game, but always said in his pitches that he wanted to make a Wasteland 2, and never explicitly stated that he wants to make (true) Fallout 3. He alluded to the latter, of course, being a good salesman, but never stated outright, if I'm not mistaking. And Wasteland 2 was way more whimsical that Fallout 1, or even Fallout 2 were.

 

[MicoSelva]

Steam is DRM though. It is a lot more as well, which is why people don't seem to mind, and it can certainly be argued it is not invasive. I just don't see how anyone could seriously argue that steam has nothing to do with DRM(which is not necessarily what you are doing).

I was arguing that it includes DRM, but is not one itself, but you are right, this is mostly semantics.

I don't really see the point of continuing the conversation, since I don't really care about debating to what degree steam is drm and invasive.

True enough. Also, what is considered invasive will vary from person to person. Personally, I do not mind Steam running constantly, but I understand that it might bother some people (I will also always prefer buying stuff at GOG, when it comes to digital distribution). For me the pros (like auto-patching, communicator integration, etc.) outweigh the cons. With that Denuvo DRM, I do not see any pros (for a paying consumer, the pros for publisher are obvious), just cons.

 

[Xenich]

Holy shit, invasive DRM in 2015 2014. I thought we have gone beyond such silliness.
And all future Warner Brothers published games are supposed to be using this? Does that also mean the North American version of supposedly DRM-free The Witcher 3? Because that would be somewhat hilarious.

Hopefully it will get patched out of DA:I in a few years - I am not in a hurry to play this, so I can wait.

I always shake my head every time I see these companies pull this crap. Didn't they learn that they can not keep people from pirating games with Diablo 3? You would think these companies would get a clue and stop pissing off their paying customers with these ridiculous systems.

 

[Infinitron]

Holy shit, invasive DRM in 2015 2014. I thought we have gone beyond such silliness.
And all future Warner Brothers published games are supposed to be using this? Does that also mean the North American version of supposedly DRM-free The Witcher 3? Because that would be somewhat hilarious.

Hopefully it will get patched out of DA:I in a few years - I am not in a hurry to play this, so I can wait.

I always shake my head every time I see these companies pull this crap. Didn't they learn that they can not keep people from pirating games with Diablo 3? You would think these companies would get a clue and stop pissing off their paying customers with these ridiculous systems.

I don't think Diablo 3 was ever pirated.

 

[Grauken]

Maybe that was his point

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

I think I remember seeing some complex server emulation hack for D3 soon after launch, but its author(s) was somehow threatened (bribed?) into discontinuing its support a short while after. Or something.

 

[cvv]

I guess that's the main reason TToN and W2 were so successful on the Starter - all the underserved 30-somethings pitching in to get something more mature out of the industry.

W2's story is many things, but "mature" it is not.

A scale bro, always a scale. Sure W2 is not the pinnacle of highbrow art but compared to all the YA fantasy shit it's fucking Beethoven soirée in Carnegie Hall.

Btw as degenerated as the Bioware and Bethesda RPGs are mechanics-wise at least they tackle some mature themes to a limited degree. In DA2 there is the Templars vs. Mages conflict dealing with the very real-world question of preemptive restrain - whether is it ok to imprison a whole group of people just because some of them are potentially dangerous (Japanese-Americans in FDR's internment camps anybody?).

And in Skyrim there was the optional story decision to join either the empire bringing civilization and prosperity to the land or the local leaders defending their right to rule their own country - and keeping it wallowing in backwardness and poverty (a parallel to British and French colonies in Asia and Africa).

I wish talented indie or mid-size devs like Larian grew a pair to attempt a full-scale adult RPG instead of the incessant derping with wizards, dragons and ancient relics.

 

[Morgoth]

http://www.4players.de/4players.php...est/32927/80791/0/Dragon_Age_Inquisition.html

One of my favorite German-speaking gaming sites. They're basically accusing Bioware of laziness, poor Bethesda plagiarism, and DA:I's world feels more like a MMO world.

Score: 59%

 

[Grinolf]

Story-wise vast majority of RPGs have always been decidedly young adult material. In book terms that's Eragon or Harry Potter territory for you. Lowest common denominator 2OP to resist.

Target demographic isn't an issue. Eragon had the same targeted demographic and almost the same story as A New Hope, but bi one un hua right mind would put them into the same category of quality. Same thing about HP, as I quite liked them (first 4 of them, as I hardly remember the rest), and if games on average would have been at least half as competently written as them, there wouldn't be a problem.

If you want make a point about demographic, much better to say that the younger targeted demographic is the more talentless mediocrities wrote for them, as it easier to make money spending much less effort. But not always, as there aren't many masterpieces for middle-aged housewives for example.

 

[eremita]

http://www.4players.de/4players.php...est/32927/80791/0/Dragon_Age_Inquisition.html

One of my favorite German-speaking gaming sites. They're basically accusing Bioware of laziness, poor Bethesda plagiarism, and DA:I's world feels more like a MMO world.

Score: 59%

M'kay, that same site (it's even the same guy acutally) gave Risen 3 69%! (Which is a fucking piece of shit.)