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Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

What modes should we play?


  • Total voters
    67

kingcomrade22

Educated
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
153
Oh, another tip. People will give you bad advice, and they're on the recommended items slots a lot, but bracers are worthless unless you're making drums, null talismans content for most useless items in the game, and wraith bands are similarly a waste of money. They just delay the items that actually make a difference by too long. I actually think I'm gonna make a bot game and pick drow or mirana or something, give myself a couple thousand gold, and see if I honestly get any advantage when getting a few wraiths before getting manta or whatever.

People get bracers on heroes like CM just because they're playing catch up with no farm, but honestly they should be using their reliable gold to get more expensive items like Sange or BKB or point boosters.
 

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Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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I can sort of see getting on of those items early if you need/want the base damage to last hit early on, now that they gives the stats and an extra 3 damage too. But yeah, if you pick those up after 6 minutes you're retarded. And there are very few situations/heroes where you really need the base damage early. Most people can't last hit worth shit anyways so you don't have to out base damage them to control the lane. But there are a few that have really shit base damage (like under 50) and have no way to boost it up passively, and you can get a lot more denies/last hits with an extra 9 damage and the stats are always helpful early on. But there are so many better ways to get lane control now, with all the early game build up stuff like urns and arcane boots and soul ring, relying that much on your right clicks isn't really necessary. You'd only want it for something like a venge, where you can build it into a ring of aquila and you're using your right clicks a lot to deny/harass and you're going to be ward bitch and most larger items would be a waste anyways.
 

Hoodoo

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
7,144
been pubstomping with mates using ursa/sk to get rosh at lvl 1.

3 levels instantly - head bot and get first blood and dominate the rest of the game. Only works if other team dosnt know whats up though. Otherwise you get pooped on.
also sk stun and overpower is overpowered.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Oh, another tip. People will give you bad advice, and they're on the recommended items slots a lot, but bracers are worthless unless you're making drums, null talismans content for most useless items in the game, and wraith bands are similarly a waste of money. They just delay the items that actually make a difference by too long. I actually think I'm gonna make a bot game and pick drow or mirana or something, give myself a couple thousand gold, and see if I honestly get any advantage when getting a few wraiths before getting manta or whatever.

People get bracers on heroes like CM just because they're playing catch up with no farm, but honestly they should be using their reliable gold to get more expensive items like Sange or BKB or point boosters.

Yeah I find it odd the suggested item build keeps promoting all of that low tier stuff that can't be upgraded. Only thing null talisman can make is a dagon.
 

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Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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Feb 24, 2007
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You can do the level 1 rosh thing with ursa/syllabear as well, less well known so not as likely to get jumped. Needs a bit more micro but still very effective (And Syllabear with free levels farms like a boss thanks to higher bear, sk doesn't do much.)
 

Hoodoo

Arcane
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Jun 5, 2009
Messages
7,144
SK dosnt do much
:rpgcodex:

targetable stun (OP with ursa) and just as tanky as sylla not mentioning aura and 2 lives.
 

kingcomrade22

Educated
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
153
SK contends with Chaos Knight and Naix for best STR carry. He's a really good hero. He's almost as tanky as Nightstalker but deals a lot more right click damage and his nuke is almost as good as Nightstalker's.
 

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Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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I can't imagine why one would rather have an SK on your team than a Sven. Sven has a better stun, shout thing is better than SK aura until the super super late game, and he puts out a lot more damage unless someone purges him. And he can farm much much faster if you want him to carry thanks to built in splash letting him do stuff like ancient stacks.

But mostly I was talking about comparing a level 3 SK to a level 1 SK. You get what, slightly more damage on your stun and some stats? Who cares? The bear gets like 50% more hp and doubled damage from those 2 levels.
 

Hoodoo

Arcane
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Jun 5, 2009
Messages
7,144
Im just sayin that sylla dosnt combo with ursa at all. Also when you are lvl 3 while they are still lvl 1 the extra dmg to your spells isnt negligible.
 

kingcomrade22

Educated
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
153
I got paired with DR and we played like 4 games together. DR learned exactly what I was bitching about, about how teammtes can be so fucking stupid, and he also learned that I really bitch too much and take this game too seriously. Jesus Christ I really wish there was something more important in my life than this fucking retared video game
 

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Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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Next time we play I'll just huskar us to victory over and over. Pubstomp heroes really seem to be the only way to handle those players. I mean, I can win mid and gank or carry with other heroes, but only Huskar can win mid, steal rosh from their ursa, push all their towers single handedly, gank, stack ancients and farm indefinitely while never going to the well, and tp and win almost any fight to defend a tower. Even if you're fed as hell, you can't do half that shit with any other hero. Especially rosh and pushing towers, which are vital for getting the horrible pub teamates enough gold to buy boots and bracers and whatever stupid shit they think is good like phaseboots on everyone and bloodstones instead of blink daggers.

What did we go there, 2 for 5? And both wins I played a strength carry?

Edit: Jugg might work too. Jugg + any competent support owns pub lanes insanely hard, and he can farm insanely fast with some early kills to fuel a bfury and helm of dom.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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Ye, I feel your pain guys. I remember when I used to play pubs on garena and battlenet. Horrible times, incompetent teams and leavers. Now I play on dotalicious and its so much better. Each team has wards, couriers, one or two carries, supporters etc.

Pity I dont have a key, I would pubstack with you.
 

kingcomrade22

Educated
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
153
DR and me, and one of my friends played a few games. Oh god you guys don't know how nice it is to have someone on your team who doesn't shit his pants, even if it's just one more person. DR fed every game, even though it wasn't really his fault every time, but we still ended up winning games even with leavers because he isn't really stupid and bad. I mean, that's all it takes, don't spew out your asshole when teamfights happen. Holy jesus.

My nickname on Steam is Unspeakable Congo Secrets. Let me know what you guys are and I'll invite.
 

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Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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I think I've discovered a new more reliable strat for pubs. It takes way longer than huskar though.

Pick morph. Go to sidelane. If team is not retarded, congrats, free win. If team is retarded, proceed to salvage mode:

Get morbid mask. Morph down to 1 str and sit in the jungle (keep all entrances warded) until you have helm of the dom, treads, and manta. Now start split pushing. Whenever someone comes to stop you, wave into trees and tp to another lane. Repeat until you can buy travels to make this even faster. Then pick up satanic, butterfly, etc. Don't bother with a bkb. You're split pushing, so you want tower damage and 1v1/2 ability. If their whole team comes to stop you, just go to another lane, preferably the opposite side lane so they can't walk there after tping to you. Either they let the towers fall or spend so much time chasing you they ignore the rest of your team and let them... well piss around and do nothing because they suck. But you're getting freefarm the whole time you're pushing to the tower.

Won't work against certain lineups that can fuck you in the trees easily (and an invis hero camping the jungle will slow you too, since you'll need to jungle at way more str and run away lots), but generally speaking the response time to this is bad in a pub, and even for casual teams. And once you're farmed hard enough to can pretty much base race against most teams. It's boring as fuck though. 5 minutes of being passive in lane with a shit partner, then 20 in jungle, then another 20 splitpushing. You never get to have a team fight. And of course your team bitches at you the whole time. *sound of enemy baracks being destroyed by morphling* 'MORPHLING Y U NO TEAM FIGHT HELP US?!?! BAD MORPH REPORT PLZ'. Not to mention while you're in the jungle and they want you to come out and lend your awesome 700 hp self with that epic 100 dmg nuke to save the day.

I see a lot of people sort of trying to do this with furion, but furion can't blink before the tp, so he gets fucked by anyone with a stun walking up on him or tping in. Maybe if you grabbed a bkb though and used it just to tp away...
 

kingcomrade22

Educated
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
153
I think you're actually wrong, but just barely. What you just said is, pick a carry hero and if your team lets you freefarm you will win. That's honestly pretty true for most of the hard carries.
I do agree that hero lineups matter. I think it IS the defining factor in pub games, just did they pick better heroes than your team. It's not the only reason a pub game can go bad, but it's one of the main reasons they do. I mean, I almost always play support heroes just because the team needs them, even though I'm actually good enough to play carry heroes and matter.
Or not even carries, I have a 100% win rate with Nighstalker, because when I know I can pick him (like the team doesn't have a lot of carries and I can go mid and so on) that I'm good enough, even though I'm only moderate, for me to do good.

That is really the problem with Dota games, and I'm obviously not the first person to spot this, is just so many people are so fucking bad and haven't got a clue. What's especially infurating is when someone is playing a hero in completely the wrong way, but they are so arrogant and can't accept criticism, the reason your team loses in their fault, and yet they will blame everyone else. What's even worse is when someone is playing a carry hero, they are so fucking bad, but because you and the other support heroes are so good he gets really fed, gets a ton of kills, and then thinks he is the reason the team won. "well you guys sucked dick but man I am so awesome"
 

Malakal

Arcane
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Nov 14, 2009
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Location
Poland
Thats a retarded strategy, with all respect due. If you want split pushing pick tinker, make him a manta and bot and push all three lanes at the same time. Morp is a carry not a pusher and he is wasted as such.
 

Hoodoo

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
7,144
Randomed Pugna today while a friend randomed Lion, simple but entertaining combo. Banish - Finger of Pain and trololo
 

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Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
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15,851
You're right, the furion thing worked way better. :troll:

DotA.png


The problem with tinker is he requires a lane to farm, more or less. And has no escape mechanism. If say, bh walks up to you, you're fucked. No tp, no fighting, no blinking away, you're just fucked. Unless you're throwng a bkb on top of the manta and travels, which seems a bit expensive, especially since you'd still have no gear for mana to actually help farm. I'll give him a spin though.
 

Malakal

Arcane
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Tinker is a very very powerful nuker. Laser deals 320 pure damage, you also have 600 dmg in two rockets with huge range. No carry will be able to stop you early-mid game.

Of course you will need mid to level up to 8 fast. You skill rocket-laser-laser-rocket-laser-rocket-laser-rocket, then one level rearm and march. Dont pick rearm lvl 2 and 3 until very late when you have guinsoo.

Gang from mid and get you BoT, after that you dont need much mana pool - you tp into lane, nuke, rearm and tp into the fountain. Rinse and repeat.

If you cant get mid then indeed Furion is better for all lane pushing.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Well, I think I am done with LoL. I am not getting any better at the game and the players make me rage way too fucking hard; it can't be good for my lifespan. Are any of you willing to tutor me in Dota 2 next week? I'm very green and probably not very good- but I know that, so I'll only appreciate your teachings. At least in Dota 2 I can get raged at by people I vaguely know over the internet. I tend to play PST 6 AM - 2:30 PM, depending on how work is.

Steam is "Lemmington".
 

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Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,851
One thing I'll suggest is to look up some general guides for dota and practice things that are useful for any hero. Things like how to stack creep camps, creep blocking, properly pulling a lane, good ward spots, juking, etc. I could show you this stuff in game but it'd honestly be just as easy to watch someone else do it. Maybe watch a stream. I recommend this guy: http://www.twitch.tv/barnyyy Watch some of his videos and listen to him when he's telling people how they're fucking up. He's usually right and explains things well. He also uses a lot of the tricks I mentioned himself when his allies are too dumb to do it on the heroes that should. He's not an amazing player or anything, but he's a better than me and a lot better than your average player. He also makes it pretty clear when he's trolling or being sarcastic, and generally assumes his viewers don't know fuck all. Be careful who you end up listening to though, streamers especially say all sorts of bullshit and never admit they're wrong because it'd make people leave the stream. There's a guy called Purge that uploads on youtube, and he's fucking awful, but people follow his advice all the time because he says he's good and he's the only guy on youtube really. He also casts games, which is another thing to avoid. Most casters are awful and are only their to yell excitedly when people get kills. Anything they say about the mechanics is usually wrong. Another thing people often do is try to copy something they saw in a high level game without understanding why it was done. Huge mistake. Most of that stuff isn't even applicable unless you're in a steady team that is all very good.

Other stuff to learn is things like hero matchups and individual ability uses and combos, but that's a lot of shit to learn. Try taking a look at http://stats.dota2.be/herostats when deciding what heroes you want to play. If it seems like a simple hero and has a low win rate, chances are it's an awful hero. Good heroes either have high win rates or are very difficult to play (and have a lower win rate because noobs always fuck them up). One last thing I'll say is regarding items: Urn of Shadows, Blink Dagger, Scythe of Vise, Arcane Boots and Mekansm are all excellent items, even on the wrong heroes, because they help the whole team out a lot (well not blink dagger, but that is just amazing.) Dagon, Phase Boots, Aghanim's Sceptre, Bloodstone and Shadowblade are all hugely overrated items that are each only good on two or three heroes in the game. Maybe a bit more for the sceptre, but it's awful on a lot of the heroes it still has an effect for. If the game recommends any of those items in the shop, it's probably still a bad idea. Oh, and always, always always carry a tp scroll. Preferably 2 so you'll still have one after using one without having to run off and buy another. It'll make you money in the long run by escaping from people and getting to pushed towers before all the creeps die. And tping in to save an ally makes you look like a fucking genius.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,851
Tinker is a very very powerful nuker. Laser deals 320 pure damage, you also have 600 dmg in two rockets with huge range. No carry will be able to stop you early-mid game.

Of course you will need mid to level up to 8 fast. You skill rocket-laser-laser-rocket-laser-rocket-laser-rocket, then one level rearm and march. Dont pick rearm lvl 2 and 3 until very late when you have guinsoo.

Gang from mid and get you BoT, after that you dont need much mana pool - you tp into lane, nuke, rearm and tp into the fountain. Rinse and repeat.

If you cant get mid then indeed Furion is better for all lane pushing.
I had a game with him yesterday and played him pretty much exactly like that, but it lasted over an hour and was very very close. The problem is you can't gank early when your allies are useless twits that either push the lane right onto the enemy tower non stop (so you'd have to tower dive for them) or make it absurdly obvious that a gank is happening by all running into the woods and 'hiding' in a place where the lane creeps see them when they walk by. So my only options were to either farm the jungle (which our carries needed badly) or try to push lanes that seemed empty ( and usually get ganked by once of their many heroes with stuns.) And Tinker does fuck all damage to towers. I think a full march does like 100 damage tops.
 

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