Dishonored by Arkane

[Azrael the cat]

I suspect that Deus Ex developers consciously made the KO easier to pull off because enemies will wake up any unconscious ally they see. For ranged non-lethal weapons this can be a significant tactical challenge on some maps.

Thing is, it's almost never a problem when you're KO'g an enemy in melee. This is partly because you're immediately well-placed to hide the body (c/f sniping a room with tranq darts from a covered height - either you snipe EVERYONE before any of them react to each other, which might not be possible due to the reload time, patrol routes and tendency of enemies in some rooms to cross-cover each other effectively - or you take down 1 enemy and hurry down to hide the body before another patrol comes past). But it's also the interaction of map design and gameplay - in DE:HR you're more likely to use close-range KOs in corridor-heavy maps where getting spotted isn't a big worry. The big exceptions are a few occasions (one, Alice Garden Pods being the highlight of the game, in my view) where you're ambushed or walk straight into a fuckload of enemies and if you haven't gone a combat build you need to quickly KO 1-2 enemies and hide (or jump and hide in the Alice Gardens case), and when those come up you usually don't care about enemies being woken back up (as you're high-tailing through there avoiding conflict, not trying to KO the room) so the disadvantages of the melee kill really stick out.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Finally played and finished this. Good game, I liked it (even) more than DX:HR.

Don't see them as that much similar games to be honest, Dishonored for me is a Deus Ex game in a different setting while DX:HR was made by people who don't really get these kind of games (which Harvey Smith and co do for obvious reasons), not saying DX:HR is a bad game but for me it played more like Splinter Cell (despite the 1st person perspective) with its linear stealth paths than Thief or Deus Ex.

Pros: Very strong core gameplay mechanics that just feel right (movement, jumping, climbing, picking up items, using weapons and powers, etc.). The designers knew exactly what sort of experience they wanted to create and they did it very well.

Immersive first person gameplay is Arkane's forte so no surprise there.

On highest difficulty, sword fighting seems like a logical evolution of what Thief was trying to do. Guards are nimble, they lunge at you flexibly rather than being stiff and awkward, they dodge, block, etc, quite well. I wasn't really able to do Thief-style cheesy circle-strafing in Dishonored. The "block exactly on time for a burst of slow motion" mechanic is clever and rewards you for excelling at a "fencer" playstyle if you choose to engage in it.

Problem is, guards' tendency to effortlessly evade your sword attacks when they have their gun out makes pure fencer playstyle somewhat ineffective, not to mention that it looks derpy as hell and make no fucking sense, a pistol wielding mook should not have an easier time neutralizing my sword attacks then a sword wielding one. Danger from rushing an enemy with a gun should come from him shooting me before I get to him not because he can go all Neo on my sword swings, I'd rather they didn't take such a long time to aim but were fucked if I close on them and they only have their pistol out.

I still like the frantic feel of melee combat overall and find that the most enjoyable way to play the game is nonlethal sneaking combined with trying to fight your way out of a melee scrap when you're discovered (instead of just reloading).

The Thief setting's sense of mystery. Compared to the purposely understated City, you simply get to know a lot about Dunwall over the course of the game, and so there just aren't many "Holy shit what the hell am I gonna find here?" moments.

Not sure if it's about more exposition but for the reasons I can't pinpoint exactly the setting which should have been much more enjoyable and interesting in theory felt pretty bland when I actually played the game. For example when it comes to Thief, the setting, environment, feel, atmosphere etc. just drew me in right away(same goes for Deus Ex despite it being a very different game in that regard) while Dishonored utterly failed in that regard (I realize this is very subjective though). Probably my biggest complaint of the game.

Thief's diversity of levels. Welcome to yet another ruined quarter of Dunwall, same as the previous one! Blame consoles + AAA production values for this, perhaps.

Valid complaint, DLCs are much better in that regard in my opinion.

And yes, Corvo's powers are OP and tend to deprive you of those "how the hell am I gonna cross this area" moments from Thief. (They also tend to run you into invisible walls a bit too often.) But, they're a lot of fun to use and are fundamental to the game's premise, so I'm not complaining too much about this. People have said that the DLCs are harder; it'll be interesting to see how.

Funny thing about this is for all those supposed OP powers (which I find to be somewhat unimaginative aside from possession and rat swarm) the game still somewhat failed to make me feel like I'm playing a badass (which by all accounts Corvo is, even without powers), I'd trade all those powers for Garrett's near supernatural ability to blend into shadows (would make sense in the setting as well), this is also higly subjective of course and I guess is in part due to Corvo being a mute and Stephen Russell doing such a brilliant job with voicing Garrett in Thief.

Regarding DLCs, they are harder due to guards now not being blind to you as long as you're several feet above the ground (like it was the case in the original game), better positioning of the enemies and an extra difficulty level (which makes Daud as fragile as the lowest cannon fodder mook in the game which makes it kinda silly for me), however you gain some extra gadgets which can be very useful and blink now stops time. Also I'd say DLCs has noticeably better level design (both in scope and diversity) and a far more interesting plot. In short, similar to Missing Link when it comes to DX:HR I find Dishonored DLCs to be better than the main game in almost every way.

 

[agentorange]

Finished the Brigmore Witches. I think the first DLC was better; that whaling factory from the first dlc set a pretty high bar and I don't feel like any of the other dlc maps live up to it. The final level offered something interesting by having a wide open, outdoor level, but once you get past that part it's back to breezing through a small mansion. Still really liked the DLCs, and they along with the New Vegas DLCs feel like the "right way" to handle this kind of content.

 

[MapMan]

Do I need to finish the game first in order to grasp the deep story of the DLC's? Also, which DLC is the bestest thing since sliced bread?

 

[agentorange]

None of the stories are "deep". The Brigmore Witches dlc would be more enjoyable if you've finished the main story since they tie together.

 

[DraQ]

Problem is, guards' tendency to effortlessly evade your sword attacks when they have their gun out makes pure fencer playstyle somewhat ineffective, not to mention that it looks derpy as hell and make no fucking sense, a pistol wielding mook should not have an easier time neutralizing my sword attacks then a sword wielding one.

IIRC pistol wielding mooks were pretty much always better trained and more experienced (officers, etc.) than those without ranged weapons. I don't think I've seen a mook without sword either.

 

[DalekFlay]

And yes, Corvo's powers are OP and tend to deprive you of those "how the hell am I gonna cross this area" moments from Thief. (They also tend to run you into invisible walls a bit too often.) But, they're a lot of fun to use and are fundamental to the game's premise, so I'm not complaining too much about this. People have said that the DLCs are harder; it'll be interesting to see how.

Mainly enemy placement and patrol routes. They realized blink made standard enemy routes super easy, so they shook the routes and placements up a bit to make it harder to blink past them all and get anything done.

 

[Silva]

Also, if they don't derp and manage to make it really great, with much larger maps and awesome level design, I think a sequel based on the Pandyssian continent would be a blast. A great opportunity for Arkane to pull a Thief TDP and explore paganism, bizarre creatures and lots of crazy stuff mixed with the ordinary world we've seen in the first one.

This is a great idea. You should message Arkane about it.

 

[skacky]

I finally finished The Brigmore Witches (game crashed in the last mission before). Liked it more than The Knife of Dunwall overall. Great Thief vibe in the last mission.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

I finally finished The Brigmore Witches (game crashed in the last mission before). Liked it more than The Knife of Dunwall overall. Great Thief vibe in the last mission.

I finish that today, also. Really, defeating delilah by messing arround with her painting really is reminiscent of garrett exchanging the eye to a fake one and messing the trickster's ritual.

 

[Silva]

Yeah, that last mission in Brigmore Witches is instant classic stuff.

P.S: I think a Dishonored sequel should ditch its slightly cartoony graphics in favor of more realistic ones. I constantly had contradicting impressions while playing the game ("oh look how awesome the skyline above the water is!" followed by "WTF happened to these people body !?").

 

[DraQ]

I think a Dishonored sequel should ditch its slightly cartoony graphics in favor of more realistic ones. I constantly had contradicting impressions while playing the game ("oh look how awesome the skyline above the water is!" followed by "WTF happened to these people body !?").

The comic/painterly hybrid style kind of worked for characters, but was downright awful when it came to environments.
Scenery looked great from afar (in no small part due to great design) but in 3D FPP you're constantly *IN* the scenery and from up close it invariably looked horribly smeary and plastic-like.

The game completely failed to convey different kinds of surfaces (this applies to furry animals as well) and any sort of surface detail. Everything looked like warmed-up plasticine.

 

[Infinitron]

I think a Dishonored sequel should ditch its slightly cartoony graphics in favor of more realistic ones. I constantly had contradicting impressions while playing the game ("oh look how awesome the skyline above the water is!" followed by "WTF happened to these people body !?").

The comic/painterly hybrid style kind of worked for characters, but was downright awful when it came to environments.
Scenery looked great from afar (in no small part due to great design) but in 3D FPP you're constantly *IN* the scenery and from up close it invariably looked horribly smeary and plastic-like.

The game completely failed to convey different kinds of surfaces (this applies to furry animals as well) and any sort of surface detail. Everything looked like warmed-up plasticine.

I had a problem with the smeary look at first but at the same time I recognize that it allowed them recreate a pseudo-Thief 1998-ish (but higher poly) look, and I respect that. I also just got used to it.

BTW, I forgot to mention something that was noticeably absent from Dishonored as a game, and that is - any form of physics based gameplay. Not even pushing crates to climb on stuff. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it was a noticeable absence.

 

[DraQ]

I had a problem with the smeary look at first but at the same time I recognize that it allowed them recreate a pseudo-Thief 1998-ish (but higher poly) look

Thief didn't have specular.

 

[Jack]

P.S: I think a Dishonored sequel should ditch its slightly cartoony graphics in favor of more realistic ones. I constantly had contradicting impressions while playing the game ("oh look how awesome the skyline above the water is!" followed by "WTF happened to these people body !?").

The art direction was marvellous in my opinion, the only thing that brought it down was the low resolution textures. The fact that they didn't go for lolrealism probably played a big part in my enjoyment of this game, I could easily look past many of the game's flaws because the use of colours and just general aesthetics of the game was so damn good. The nice fluid gameplay and neat level design certainly helped too.

Not my screenshots, but I think these showcase what they did right.

Spoiler

 

[skacky]

I really liked the art direction in Dishonored as well, the scenery is for the most part breath taking but it's true textures are rather blurry up close. I think lighting has a lot to do in this.

 

[FuelBlooded]

I blame consoles for low res textures.

 

[hiver]

I dont know. I felt that with being so ridiculously overpowered, enemy Ai being castrated, and areas being condensed, small and full of limits and small spaces - the game lost any sense of actual game.
Its little more then an interactive movie, where you basically play around with ridiculously stupid and limited enemy automatons - based on cheap overblown ego pandering.

Not even those enemies that could theoretically have abilities that could present some kind of a problem for the player are anything more then static dumb unconvincing figurines.

To me its nothing more then nice backgrounds and steam-punk art style - atmosphere, on which mediocre nerds will trip over.
As a game - its total crap, and all these things in it seem like wasted potential.

 

[Morgoth]

Ban hiver.

 

[Silva]

Jack, I agree those pictures look nice. In fact, they comprehend the positive part of my impression. Unfortunaly, the characters and surface textures were lame as shit. I would rather have the textures and overall atmosphere look more gloomy and photorealistic, just like this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAqz7h-WBws

 

[DraQ]

Not my screenshots, but I think these showcase what they did right.

Spoiler

Indeed, but this post of mine illustrates some of the things they did horribly, horribly wrong:

Spoiler

I don't understand the hate for the graphics - I appreciate that they went for a stylistic rather than realistic look and the art design is pretty good IMO.

Ok, I've examined Dishonored's graphics a bit closer:

• I don't think painterly style works for 3D games. You know how some paintings look good only from certain distance away? In 3D you don't have this luxury and sometimes see textures from very close up. Blurry low res textures and bumpmaps don't help either.
• Painterly or not, this is still not an excuse for coat every fucking thing with specular wax*. It's even worse than in oblivious, luckily Dishonored has at least good art direction going for it.
• Additionally, Dishonored just plain fails a lot at bumpmapping**.
• I'm not sure developers know how light shafts work. If they know, they certainly can't replicate that in their game.
• Finally, lighting is often way off, for example rat swarms seem to be lit as single point object despite being fairly expansive, which results in stuff like rats in the shadows being fully lit because the center ofthe swarm is.
• Like I said, I do like art direction, the game feels a lot like Mieville's New Crobuzon, some scenes are pretty gorgeous, despite graphics' many failings. Void looks a bit like what I imagined for some TES daedric realms.

*) Waxed rocks

**) Epic bumpmap fail

Barf.

 

[toro]

Blablabla ... Dishonored is a disgraceful attempt of a game but visuals is not one of its weak points. The game looks gorgeous, please complain about something else.

 

[DraQ]

gorgeous

 

[toro]

In any game you will find a couple of fucked up textures. However such mistakes don't say anything about the overall visual quality of the game. </common sense>

That's why I find it hard to believe that you actually argue about Dishonored's visuals. I think you are either (1|) trolling for attention or (2) making a futile attempt to piss off people who enjoyed Dishonored. Of course there is also the kingcomrade option.

 

[DalekFlay]

Ahhh, bad texture hunters. Truly doing holy work. How could I enjoy a game if a random texture somewhere in the level is not up to par? Shameful!