Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[rusty_shackleford]

The Demographics of Codex players of Disco Elysium:

- Those who didn't play but know it's shit
- Those who played but didn't read
- Those who played, read, but didn't understand (aka "It's communist propaganda")
- Those who played, read, and appreciated it as a whole, composed of art, sound, music, story, language, characters.

 

[AwesomeButton]

The material's quality is up to your interpretation. Not the game's fault you can't read, rusty.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The material's quality is up to your interpretation. Not the game's fault you can't read, rusty.

I don't play visual novels, sorry.

 

[Nutria]

You get so many interesting choices about politics. You can be 4 different kinds of European, and "normal not-retarded European" isn't even one of them.

There are some surprisingly great parts of the game if you've got the patience to get to them, but anyone who denies that there's a lot of juvenile politics and pretentious artsy fartsy bullshit mixed in there isn't being honest.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The material's quality is up to your interpretation. Not the game's fault you can't read, rusty.

I don't play visual novels, sorry.

Is the game more or less of a visual novel than Torment?

Speaking of which, i wonder if my reservations about this game is that it isn't metaphysical like Torment was. I mean in principle there shouldn't be any comparisons since there's no relations between the two games but somehow the fact they are both heavy on story faggotry makes me feel like somehow i HAVE to compare them.

 

[Anthedon]

The material's quality is up to your interpretation. Not the game's fault you can't read, rusty.

I don't play visual novels, sorry.

Is the game more or less of a visual novel than Torment?

Speaking of which, i wonder if my reservations about this game is that it isn't metaphysical like Torment was. I mean in principle there shouldn't be any comparisons since there's no relations between the two games but somehow the fact they are both heavy on story faggotry makes me feel like somehow i HAVE to compare them.

More, there's no combat.

 

[mediocrepoet]

The material's quality is up to your interpretation. Not the game's fault you can't read, rusty.

I don't play visual novels, sorry.

Is the game more or less of a visual novel than Torment?

WAY more imo. I didn't like Torment outside of a few moments I could appreciate, but I did manage to finish it.
DE is more like narrated navel gazing with dice and choose your own adventure book game over dead ends in several places. That being said, there really are some funny moments even in the small portion I played.

 

[Harthwain]

i just voiced some objections to the ideals expressed in it

But you didn't played it and know jackshit about the context...

Let me expand - it's pretty well understood the premise and gameplay of Disco Elysium, in fact, I believe last week someone finally uploaded a youtube video of gameplay. It was only about 3 minutes, but one could argue that the essence of gameplay could be established. Maybe someone didn't played it, and you did played it. I doubt anyone needs me to intervene, but I'm just pointing out that this game has been out for a few years and voicing an opinion on its mechanics isn't something only veterans can do. Even the common man can pontificate without speaking from ignorance of the esoteric rules that make up Disco Elysium.

What The Fuck are you talking about...?

The "discussion" (if you can even call it that) wasn't about "the essence of gameplay". It was about "the ideals expressed in it" and - from my experience - most people "voicing objections" to these "ideals" either don't understand what they are reading or simply didn't play the game, so they fail to realize how the game mocks every topic. Here you have a good example. This is why people should watch or play something before attempting a "critique", otherwise they only show how clueless they are.

I will say that the thought cabinet stuff was pretty funny and the inexplicable feminist agenda made me laugh.

The description of the Homosexual Underground made me laugh (I was grinning for the most of the game, but I had open bursts of laugh in places).

I was impressed though that it's labelled "RPG" while being even less of one than PST. *shrugs* YMMV

How do you measure an RPG?

Spoiler

I find it funny (although not surprising) that for some people adding a shitty combat layer with trash combat is all that is required to turn a game into an RPG, despite this game having much more telltale signs of being one. I mean, I get having a GOOD combat, but I am against having "combat" that is a boring filler just for the sake of someone being able to say "This game has combat!". Yeah. It does. And it is shit. Thank you so much for gracing us with it...

 

[Nutria]

You're being disingenuous.

Also, they, like, killed a lot of people. There's a smart centrist man who once calculated that communism has killed 100 billion people in total

That's commie propaganda. In fact, that's reddit-level commie propaganda. And you can say "oh no, but it's different, because in the fantasy world of Disco Elysium, the communists didn't actually kill millions". But that brings up the question, why make up a fantasy world where the communists didn't actually kill millions? It's like making up a fantasy world with no scarcity so that you can have "gay luxury space communism" or whatever the kids are calling it these days.

 

[Harthwain]

You're being disingenuous.

Also, they, like, killed a lot of people. There's a smart centrist man who once calculated that communism has killed 100 billion people in total

That's commie propaganda. In fact, that's reddit-level commie propaganda. And you can say "oh no, but it's different, because in the fantasy world of Disco Elysium, the communists didn't actually kill millions". But that brings up the question, why make up a fantasy world where the communists didn't actually kill millions? It's like making up a fantasy world with no scarcity so that you can have "gay luxury space communism" or whatever the kids are calling it these days.

The claim that communism has killed billions of people* (and all the other stuff I quoted directly from the game, which I provided the link to) is "commie propaganda"? Sorry, but you're retarded. Seek professional help.

* Even if it is not literally 100 billions, it is not possible to say it didn't kill a crapload of people and there is no denying that in the actual game.

 

[Nutria]

The claim that communism has killed billions of people* (and all the other stuff I quoted directly from the game, which I provided the link to) is "commie propaganda"?

This is the commie version of a neo-Nazi saying that the Holocaust killed "gorillions" of people. If this level of sarcasm is too difficult for you to grasp, don't worry. There's plenty of autists out there living kick-ass lives.

 

[Harthwain]

This is the commie version of a neo-Nazi saying that the Holocaust killed "gorillions" of people.

And...? It still doesn't change the fact that both totalitarianisms were responsible for a lot of deaths. I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I don't care about defending one or the other.

If this level of sarcasm is too difficult for you to grasp, don't worry. There's plenty of autists out there living kick-ass lives.

Oh, I do get the joke. It's a bit like "It's over 9000!" and the way for the Coalition to exonerate themselves at the same time.

You however seem to fail to grasp something when you read stuff like "impale all people who have more than 25 real in their pockets", "literally murder all human beings regardless of their political beliefs" and "Get the firing squads and the animal wagons ready!" (with the actual in-game scene where at least two scenarios are associated with communists being behind the execution) and still think this is "commie propaganda" somehow. Maybe - ironically enough - the writting on the wall is too subtle for YOU?

 

[Daemongar]

The "discussion" (if you can even call it that) wasn't about "the essence of gameplay". It was about "the ideals expressed in it" and - from my experience - most people "voicing objections" to these "ideals" either don't understand what they are reading or simply didn't play the game, so they fail to realize how the game mocks every topic. Here you have a good example. This is why people should watch or play something before attempting a "critique", otherwise they only show how clueless they are.
.

Chill out Dak'kon. This "game" has been beaten to "death" in "discussion." I'm saying that you really don't have to play this game to have an understanding of its intricacies. It's just a game. It's not the greatest of all time, it's not the worst. But also, beneath the surface, I suppose I was implying if you are this annoyed that someone is voicing an opinion about a game they never played, well, you are in for a rough road ahead of you.

 

[Harthwain]

I'm saying that you really don't have to play this game to have an understanding of its intricacies.

I would agree in terms of its mechanics. But in terms of its writting I'd say you need to pay attention to have a solid understanding of it (and by that I don't mean sharing my point of view. I mean having good enough grasp of the context to be able to make sensible conclusions), even if you are just watching it on YouTube.

 

[Daemongar]

I'm saying that you really don't have to play this game to have an understanding of its intricacies.

I would agree in terms of its mechanics. But in terms of its writting I'd say you need to pay attention to have a solid understanding of it (and by that I don't mean sharing my point of view. I mean having good enough grasp of the context to be able to make sensible conclusions), even if you are just watching it on YouTube.

I'll agree - though someone forthrightly saying they didn't play a game but stating their position, geez, well, he said he didn't play it. You seemed pretty angry. I really liked Disco Elysium as it stood, regardless of politics. I thought it was refreshing for the structure of the game and the overall unknown outcome of every action and choice. Sorta along the lines of an adventure game with rng and c&c. Some people dwelled quite a bit on the underlying subtext of the factions and dialog - I was just happy that I wasn't forced to watch cutscenes of buttfucking dwarves.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I see that my categorization was actually very accurate. The game sets the entrance barrier very low in many places, but apparently too high in others.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I will say that the thought cabinet stuff was pretty funny and the inexplicable feminist agenda made me laugh.

The description of the Homosexual Underground made me laugh (I was grinning for the most of the game, but I had open bursts of laugh in places).

I was impressed though that it's labelled "RPG" while being even less of one than PST. *shrugs* YMMV

How do you measure an RPG?

Spoiler

I find it funny (although not surprising) that for some people adding a shitty combat layer with trash combat is all that is required to turn a game into an RPG, despite this game having much more telltale signs of being one. I mean, I get having a GOOD combat, but I am against having "combat" that is a boring filler just for the sake of someone being able to say "This game has combat!". Yeah. It does. And it is shit. Thank you so much for gracing us with it...

No, this isn't a there's no combat complaint. If it was that, I wouldn't have argued that PST would have been better as a pure adventure game with no combat at all - something in the vein of King's Quest with a better narrative. I also wouldn't hate Arcanum, despite really wanting to love it (the manual is fantastic though). It's more that the game felt like an on rails set of lolrandom descriptions that you either get or not based on RNG combined with your stats and adventure game style random deaths/game overs that would've made Sierra Online proud.

I found some of it funny, some of it beyond stupid, and most of it that sort of try hard random whatever that millennials seem to find so amusing.

I agree that there can be such a thing as playing a role and defining yourself that makes a "true RPG". I can also say that the buffoon in the game as presented to me was such a moronic patchwork of traits that I couldn't engage with it in any serious way and lost interest pretty quickly. There's a reason why great CRPGs tend to be more minimal in how much they're defining your character. DE is an interesting experiment, but it's not for me, much in the way that dumb comedies are popular, but I usually don't watch them.

In the same way, the people tripping over themselves about how brilliant it is are either delusional or have very different dealbreakers in what they want out of their gaming time.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I was impressed though that it's labelled "RPG" while being even less of one than PST. *shrugs* YMMV

How do you measure an RPG?

What can change the nature of the RPG genre?

 

[fantadomat]

The Demographics of Codex players of Disco Elysium:

- Those who didn't play but know it's shit
- Those who played but didn't read
- Those who played, read, but didn't understand (aka "It's communist propaganda")
- Those who played, read, and appreciated it as a whole, composed of art, sound, music, story, language, characters.

Good thing that the first three are minority,more than 60% of kodexers did enjoy the game. While 30% just didn't cared for the game or it was not their cup of tea,and moved on. Only a few screeching idiots left.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I didn't like Torment

Remind me again, why we should listen to your opinion?

 

[NJClaw]

You can LARP as a raging fascist/monarchist/communist/ultraliberal. That covers most of the Codex (political) spectrum I'd think.

You can do all those things but always according to their understanding of what any of them mean, so the game can still be slanted towards a certain point of view.

This game is so slanted towards the point of view you're alluding to that every single "leftist" character you encounter is either a vicious snake or a manipulated fool. If you go down the bourgeoisie-hating road, your character turns out to be a deluded piece of shit who pins on the upper/middle class even his petty personal problems.

 

[AwesomeButton]

You can LARP as a raging fascist/monarchist/communist/ultraliberal. That covers most of the Codex (political) spectrum I'd think.

You can do all those things but always according to their understanding of what any of them mean, so the game can still be slanted towards a certain point of view.

This game is so slanted towards the point of view you're alluding to that every single "leftist" character you encounter is either a vicious snake or a manipulated fool. If you go down the bourgeoisie-hating road, your character turns out to be a deluded piece of shit who pins on the upper/middle class even his petty personal problems.

The funny thing is that the leftists who like the game, or at least most of them, obviously lack the self-awareness to see this either :D

 

[fantadomat]

You can LARP as a raging fascist/monarchist/communist/ultraliberal. That covers most of the Codex (political) spectrum I'd think.

You can do all those things but always according to their understanding of what any of them mean, so the game can still be slanted towards a certain point of view.

This game is so slanted towards the point of view you're alluding to that every single "leftist" character you encounter is either a vicious snake or a manipulated fool. If you go down the bourgeoisie-hating road, your character turns out to be a deluded piece of shit who pins on the upper/middle class even his petty personal problems.

That is true for all the routs,the game does a good job to paint all the ideologies in a negative and positive way. That is pretty much the ideology quest they added,it shows all those people as weak willed that use the ideology as safety valve. It is pretty good writing all around,it lets you be anyone but a demented kwan that screeches at everyone "Communist/fascist REEEEEE!!!!"

 

[Joggerino]

I see that my categorization was actually very accurate. The game sets the entrance barrier very low in many places, but apparently too high in others.

I've noticed that DE haters are often very very retarded.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I didn't like Torment

Remind me again, why we should listen to your opinion?

Remind me again, who are you and why would I care what you do?