From Software Dark Souls 3

[praetor]

And even without the avatar, you have already exposed yourself as a B-team apologist through your perpetual butthurt and inferiority complex. I never expected a rational argument from you in the first place--only mindless aggression--so thank you for cutting it short.

says the "i can't land parries so they must be inconsistent" scrub, lol. i explained why the mechanics are superior, you just keep repeating "but them das1 mekanikkz are better fullstop. das2 too hard. thinking while playing is hard! miyazak-san iz da bestah evah, he do no 'rong!" like you're drooling over your keyboard while typing. and.. me a "b-team apologist"?! hahaha. what's next, skyway is a Treyarch fanboy?

 

[jaybirdy]

Well, it's obvious that you are a DS2peasant because your behavior is the same as the others. "hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr git gud" When I say that DS2's parries are inconsistent, I don't mean that I can't land them. They're a lot easier than DS1's once you understand the bullshit behind them anyway. I understand that you're constantly on the defensive, looking for the hidden meaning behind the words of those who insult Islam, but I really meant the dictionary definition of "inconsistent." See, parries made sense in DS1, you just had to execute it at the end of an attack, just as one would parry a strike in real life, and it was all based on timing. DS2, on the other hand, was retarded about it, just like it is with everything else. To parry effectively, you just need to learn what kind of parrying window your shield/dagger is, predict what kind of attack is coming your way (not hard when it comes to DS2's simple enemies), and spam the hell out of it. Spam-parrying is so effective that you can even parry fucking combos.

And to top off that shit sundae, parrying is also tied to the retarded adaptability/agility stats. Dark Souls is an action game first and foremost, its RPG mechanics need to complement its gameplay, not overwhelm it. DS is a lot funner when it's more about timing than it is about number crunching and guessing at its probabilities. I should not take damage when an enemy's sword lands three feet away from me, that is blue shell Mario Kart bullshit. DS2's shit gameplay doesn't end there either; the B team is so shit at action that the player's rate/speed of attack is much lower than the typical enemy's. NO, that doesn't mean the game is harder, it just means that every battle follows this same routine: enemy executes their single tired combo chain, player moves forward for a few quick potshots, backs off, repeat. It doesn't have the fluid dynamics of DS1/DeS/BB. Combine that with all the rooms filled with a shitton of enemies and it's painfully boring; proof positive that the B team doesn't understand even the fundamentals of Souls.

So yes, not only does DS1 whip DS2 in level design, world design, atmosphere, equipment, etc., it beats it in mechanics and gameplay as well. The ONLY feather in DS2's cap is PVP. The B team doesn't even approach Miyazaki-SENSEI and the A team's talent, much less surpass it.

You explained why DS2 mechanics are superior? Where? I didn't even realize we were even debating DS1's mechanics vs. DS2's. This was mostly about DS3, and I even agreed with you that what was shown in the demo was bad. My argument was simply that its mechanics are based on the superior DS1 rather than the inferior DS2, which is a good sign. They are babbified however, but I chose to be optimistic and put forward that it's only that way for the sake of the demo. You didn't prove shit on your part, you didn't even put forward an argument period, you just threw baseless insults and acted like a big baby.

Spoiler

I really was going to end it earlier, it's clear that you're too emotional about this. But who am I to take away the Codex's fun?

 

[pakoito]

I should not take damage when an enemy's sword lands three feet away from me

As someone who didn't give a fuck about PvP, I saw this in a couple of duels. What causes it?

 

[toro]

As someone who didn't give a fuck about PvP, I saw this in a couple of duels. What causes it?

lag + retarded hitboxes

 

[toro]

So yes, not only does DS1 whip DS2 in level design, world design, atmosphere, equipment, etc., it beats it in mechanics and gameplay as well. The ONLY feather in DS2's cap is PVP. The B team doesn't even approach Miyazaki-SENSEI and the A team's talent, much less surpass it.

 

[Surf Solar]

I spent a lot of more time in DS2 both pvp and pve. Both were more fun than DS1, albeit the worldbuilding in DS1 was better. If there can be a mix of both it would be cool.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

casuals have been reported to autorities

 

[jaybirdy]

As someone who didn't give a fuck about PvP, I saw this in a couple of duels. What causes it?

Lag and glitchy hit boxes, like toro said. But that aspect is even worse in DS1's duels. Really, DS1's PvP is almost unplayable.

DS2 adds another layer of shit with the the agility and adaptability stats, and it was probably to hide the shitty hit boxes. If those stats are too low, you will take damage by strikes that don't actually connect, in PvP and PvE both. B team apologists used to, and still do occasionally, call them "shockwaves."

 

[Eyestabber]

DaS1 pvp is terrible, gameplay wise DaS2 is a massive improvement. Didn't know Miyazaki had such delusional fanboys.

 

[Akratus]

If I want a controller for the pc to play souls games, which would you guys recommend? I don't mind if it's a little less flashy or comfortable in return for a better price.

Or should I get a bluetooth thing to attach my wireless ps3 controller?

 

[Eyestabber]

I use a regular X360 controller on my PC, tho I'm also curious for alternatives. Steam controller any good?

 

[Akratus]

http://www.bol.com/nl/s/algemeen/zo...pc+controller/sort/bestverkocht_11/index.html

Too much choice. Please advise.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

every battle follows this same routine: enemy executes their single tired combo chain, player moves forward for a few quick potshots, backs off, repeat.
(...)
It doesn't have the fluid dynamics of DS1/DeS/BB

Sounds to me like DS2 preserved the "fluid dynamics" perfectly in this respect.

Though, if you think DeS has better mechanics than DS2, then you truly are a Miyazaki fanboy, bro.

If those stats are too low, you will take damage by strikes that don't actually connect

Say what? I'd love to hear more about this. Are you saying that enemy attack hitbox sizes actually change with player Agility? That would be completely retarded, but this is the first time I've seen such a claim.

 

[Eyestabber]

Say what? I'd love to hear more about this. Are you saying that enemy attack hitbox sizes actually change with player Agility? That would be completely retarded, but this is the first time I've seen such a claim.

Don't bother, jaybirdy is spewing nonsense. The Agility/parry frames thing is completely FALSE. It was a rumor, and it was proved false by several players. Just do a little google search. Agility affects roll/backstep i-frames and allows you to chug a little faster. And that's it. Parrying? Hitbox? Nigga, lay down the crack pipe, please.

 

[jaybirdy]

DaS1 pvp is terrible, gameplay wise DaS2 is a massive improvement. Didn't know Miyazaki had such delusional fanboys.

And that is literally what I just said, you illiterate.

Sounds to me like DS2 preserved the "fluid dynamics" perfectly in this respect.

And it sounds to me like you just need to git gud. There is plenty of opportunity to interrupt an enemy in a combo chain, you just have to time it correctly. However, if you try that shit in DS2, you'll get punished for it. But why bother anyway, you already know how the enemy is going to attack because he attacks the same way every time, so you might as well hang back and be patient. DS2 is simultaneously the easiest and most unfair Souls game.

Though, if you think DeS has better mechanics than DS2, then you truly are a Miyazaki fanboy, bro.

DeS has the worst mechanics of the real Souls games, but it beats DS2 by default. DS2's are just plain fucked.

I make no bones about it, I think Miyazaki and his team are brilliant. That doesn't mean that they're beyond reproach, however. I've already criticized their pitiful attempts at PvP; I think of it as a diversion rather than a proper game mode. Plus, at this point, there's really no reason why the player isn't given the opportunity to jump or at least climb small ledges. Artificial limitations like that should've been rubbed out two games ago. Moreover, while the hitboxes aren't nearly DS2-tier in shittiness, they still need a lot of work. Souls needs more polish in general. It's like they've become complacent in the face of so much praise.

but this is the first time I've seen such a claim.

It's very common in Souls discussions and at 4chan, but the claim is made to defend DS2's mechanics to exemplify that it's intentional and not a glitch. Of course it can't be proven, no developer is going to say "you get hit when you're not supposed to because..." but what else could it be? Officially, those stats affect roll speed and i-frames. When you get hit when you're not supposed to, it's as if the game thinks that your i-frame stat is too low. How else are you literally pulled into the "sword picks you up and slams you" animation and you're three fucking foot away. That's more than just a simple glitch and it happens all the time. In DS2, i-frames are everything, using i-frames is pretty much the de facto dodging system. In DS2, it's smarter to dodge INTO an enemy's strike at the right moment rather than away from it, because dodging away from it is a gamble. The reason why you still get hit after a "successful" dodge is because the i-frame window is closed. I-frames are there to provide a little breathing room and existed as a courtesy for players in the real Souls games (Wild Guns on the SNES uses the exact same system), but DS2 built their whole dodge game around them. That's part of what I mean when I say that DS2's mechanics are fucked.

 

[Surf Solar]

This is the first time I see someone talking the 'muh hitboxes!!!11' talk and actually taking it seriously.

 

[jaybirdy]

Agility affects roll/backstep i-frames

See my i-frame explanation below.

One thing is for certain about DS2: you get hit all the time and it's plain as day that the weapon didn't make the connection. Really, the reason that it happens is insignificant in the face of the fact that it happens, and at such a frequent rate too. So I must ask you apologists, why do you think a game has good mechanics when you're constantly taking damage after successful avoidance? Forget good mechanics, DS2 doesn't even FUNCTIONAL mechanics.

Parrying?

Oops. lol

In my defense, I only played DS2 for several hours, my time is too limited to spend on bad games. Plus, I'm not big on parrying in Souls anyway.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

See jaybirdy, this is what I mean by "Miyazaki fanboy". You people are just divorced from reality, the massive difference that makes DS2 shit in your eyes either doesn't exist or consists of some kind of bullshit minutiae whose existence you can't even demonstrate. I'm fine if you think the worldbuilding, level design and atmosphere are better in DaS1 (they're honestly not better in DeS, but whatever, opinions and all). But you can't be satisfied with that, you have to make up nonsense about combat mechanics and other stuff.

And it sounds to me like you just need to git gud. There is plenty of opportunity to interrupt an enemy in a combo chain, you just have to time it correctly. However, if you try that shit in DS2, you'll get punished for it. But why bother anyway, you already know how the enemy is going to attack because he attacks the same way every time, so you might as well hang back and be patient. DS2 is simultaneously the easiest and most unfair Souls game.

For the record, I've completed DS1 in a little under 2 hours, so I feel like I'm gud enough, thank you very much.

And I'm honestly confused what the fuck you're on about here. Is this about poise? It sounds like it. In any case, all the Souls games have both high and low poise enemies (DeS has no poise and makes up for this with hyperarmor on some animations, yet another example of its shitty mechanics). Where's the major difference? Feel free to go on a stroll in Anor Londo with a fast weapon and see how well you do interrupting the combos of Silver Knights, if you want a direct counterexample.

The "attacks the same way every time" thing is similarly confusing. In terms of attack pattern choice, the AI behaves pretty much the same way in all Souls games. How exactly is DS2 different here, other than not having been directed by Lord Miyazaki?

It's very common in Souls discussions and at 4chan, but the claim is made to defend DS2's mechanics to exemplify that it's intentional and not a glitch. Of course it can't be proven, no developer is going to say "you get hit when you're not supposed to because..." but what else could it be? Officially, those stats affect roll speed and i-frames.

So, it's true because retards made it up? Figures.

When you get hit when you're not supposed to, it's as if the game thinks that your i-frame stat is too low. How else are you literally pulled into the "sword picks you up and slams you" animation and you're three fucking foot away. That's more than just a simple glitch and it happens all the time.

You're aware that the same thing happens in DS1, right? Not so easy to see it, as the only attack in that game that works this way is Super Ornstein's stab, and the grand majority of halfwits complaining about this same thing in DS2 would've never gotten the opportunity to see it. By the way, the reason it happens is simply because it's a static animation that's difficult to orient in such a way that it exactly aligns with the player when they're moving sideways. Doesn't have anything to do with hitboxes. The attack is supposed to home in on you perfectly if you're in range, so if you're not in an iframe then, it connects. It's sloppy, but as you yourself have observed, Souls in general is a bit sloppy when it comes to shit like this.

For the record, it's the same thing with the "Oh ho I got hit by this overhead slam even though I was clear of the blade, lololo B-team hitboxes!". Try dodging Artorias' leap a few times, that shit can floor you like half a meter from where he lands. Of course noticing this is beyond the cognitive ability of the halfwits which make up the bulk of the "Souls community", so instead we have the DS2 hitbox whining.

Another thing you can try is to start up DeS, go onto the battlements in 1-1 and find one of the spear dudes, wait for him to do his sideways backhand sweep, and try to interrupt it. Your weapon will pass right through as he has completely nonsensical invincibility frames there. How's that for bad hitboxes?

In DS2, i-frames are everything, using i-frames is pretty much the de facto dodging system. In DS2, it's smarter to dodge INTO an enemy's strike at the right moment rather than away from it, because dodging away from it is a gamble. The reason why you still get hit after a "successful" dodge is because the i-frame window is closed. I-frames are there to provide a little breathing room and existed as a courtesy for players in the real Souls games (Wild Guns on the SNES uses the exact same system), but DS2 built their whole dodge game around them. That's part of what I mean when I say that DS2's mechanics are fucked.

Yes, rolling into attacks to make better use of iframes is definitely a DS2 exclusive thing. Holy shit, have you even played these games? It's even much easier to do so in DeS and DaS. I'm half convinced the whole Agility idea in DaS2 was an attempt to make this less ubiquitous.

 

[praetor]

The "attacks the same way every time" thing is similarly confusing. In terms of attack pattern choice, the AI behaves pretty much the same way in all Souls games. How exactly is DS2 different here, other than not having been directed by Lord Miyazaki?

the difference is that enemies in DaS2 (particularly the DLCs, iirc) have more combos, they vary them more, and have attack chains that aren't the same 3-hit combo like 99% of the enemies in DaS1. DaS1 (and DeS even more so) is so broken in the gameplay department that "leisurely circle around enemy to instabackstab" works in 90% of the cases. yeah, the tracking in DaS2 looks hilariously idiotic, but honestly it's better than the DaS1 system where enemies swing at empty air for like 10 seconds

remember you're arguing with an idiot that in one post he says parries are inconsistent (when they work just as advertised, except now not all parry tools have the the same startup... so guess what, you actually have to "git gut" to parry without the easymode DaS1/DeS parries with no startup frames), then they're so easy you can spam them (some real numbers here, no made up miyazaki fanboy bullshit: longest parry animation with longest active frames in DaS1 is 27 frames, so 90% of a second (30fps), of which active frames are 30%; the shortest parry animation in DaS2 is 60 frames, so 100% of a second (60fps), and no animation goes above 20% active frames. you really have to commend the dumb fuck for arguing that an animation that has less active frames and lasts longer is somehow easy to spam. that's some next level of dumbfuckery), then they're affected by adaptability (proven bullshit), and then he admits he pretty much never parried in his 2 hours with the game. this is beyond even skyway level of idiocy

and that's just the tip of the iceberg

 

[Cowboy Moment]

the difference is that enemies in DaS2 (particularly the DLCs, iirc) have more combos, they vary them more, and have attack chains that aren't the same 3-hit combo like 99% of the enemies in DaS1. DaS1 (and DeS even more so) is so broken in the gameplay department that "leisurely circle around enemy to instabackstab" works in 90% of the cases. yeah, the tracking in DaS2 looks hilariously idiotic, but honestly it's better than the DaS1 system where enemies swing at empty air for like 10 seconds

I do vaguely recall Edward_R_Murrow claiming that enemy AI in DS2 is more difficult to loop, which prevents embarassments like the Stray Demon "strategy", but I've never personally tried to investigate this.

 

[praetor]

I do vaguely recall Edward_R_Murrow claiming that enemy AI in DS2 is more difficult to loop, which prevents embarassments like the Stray Demon "strategy", but I've never personally tried to investigate this.

there's certainly enemies that have at least a bit more RNG to their attacks and some can extend the trademark "plz backstab me" 3 hit combo to a 4th hit (that works really well because of improved tracking), but when it comes to baiting specific attacks i didn't feel there was that much of a difference (enough to be noticeable, not enough to be noteworthy, i guess...)

 

[Damned Registrations]

One shit thing about DaS2 combat was that there were definitely WAY more enemies with super high/unreachable levels of poise. All those fucking lion dudes, the giant knights, the mastodon knights, the dwarves, Ruin Sentinels, etc. Pretty much the only enemies with 'low' poise that weren't in the tutorial were the royal sword knights. I suppose maybe the varangian guys too, maybe some mages or some shit?

The only enemies I remember in DaS1 having that kind of poise were the boars and the porcupine cat things. Even things like the stone knights or taurus demons could be stunned pretty reasonably. The silver knights certainly weren't that bad, unless you're using some shit like a rapier or something. Probably about the same as the Alonne knights, which seemed fair for their size and level of armour.

 

[Eyestabber]

One shit thing about DaS2 combat was that there were definitely WAY more enemies with super high/unreachable levels of poise. All those fucking lion dudes, the giant knights, the mastodon knights, the dwarves, Ruin Sentinels, etc. Pretty much the only enemies with 'low' poise that weren't in the tutorial were the royal sword knights. I suppose maybe the varangian guys too, maybe some mages or some shit?

The only enemies I remember in DaS1 having that kind of poise were the boars and the porcupine cat things. Even things like the stone knights or taurus demons could be stunned pretty reasonably. The silver knights certainly weren't that bad, unless you're using some shit like a rapier or something. Probably about the same as the Alonne knights, which seemed fair for their size and level of armour.

Alonne Knights can also be poise broken, but, yeah, that's annoying. Too many enemies have perfect poise in DaS2, which forces you to rely on the good old "wait attack pattern, poke, retreat" way too much.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

It's also incosistent as fuck: hulking suits of armor in Heide Tower can be poisebroken fairly easily while Lion Warriors and fucking rag-wearing pickaxe peasants - can't.

 

[Damned Registrations]

It's especially annoying since most of the DaS2 encounters were designed to be difficult by virtue of making you aggro multiple enemies. If you pull them one by one with a bow like a jackass it all becomes really trivial, but if you try and fight multiple enemies you're basically fucked because you can't stun any of them so it's an endless wall of swinging weapons. The only other viable option is backstab/ripose invincibility abuse, which feels only slightly less asinine than shooting someone in the face so he'll run at you while leaving his buddy (5 feet away) behind.