Incline Colony Ship RELEASE THREAD

[Technomancer]

What's the deal with the Moore "appraisals" guy? I never get any option to appraise anything.

Just flavour NPC. You can ask about armory machine but this Pit scum is clueless about it.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I hope that sensibility stays alive and well in ITS's games.

I hope so too. VD's writing adds so much character to the games. It's such a fresh of breath air when I get a metaphorical punch in the gut then left grasping for air as I then get kicked and thrown to the alligators. So much more entertaining than all the watered down safe inoffensive crap developers usually go for in regards to their world design.

You think so? I've generally liked their games, but the writing isn't a highlight for me, though I've enjoyed the settings and ideas quite a bit (that's actually the highlight for me). But all the NPCs are basically the same dickhead who's going to fuck you in the ass somehow.*

* In AOD anyway, haven't played enough CS to know for sure, but what I've read here has given me the impression that it's true here too.

It's like: Oh, nice to meet another guy who hates me. That's memorable and interesting...
It's like playing Dark Souls except everyone you meet is Patches. It stops being interesting or amusing and is just BSB in its own way.

The only reason I even remember who Miltiades is is because AOD fart huffers can't stfu about him, even though he's just another instance of the same guy described above. Meh.

 

[Lemming42]

The unbelievably cynical descriptions of every person you meet always make me laugh. Just go into a room where some random woman is sat unassumingly behind a desk and the narration is like "YOU'VE SEEN PEOPLE LIKE HER BEFORE - RUTHLESS BASTARDS WITH MORE AMBITION THAN SENSE. YOU CAN SEE IT IN HER EYES: SHE'S THINKING ABOUT TAKING OVER THIS PLACE, AND SHE'LL GLADLY STEP OVER YOUR CORPSE TO GET THERE". And it's just, like, a receptionist or something.

The bit early in Dungeon Rats where you talk to the first questgiver and you and he both look into each others' eyes and realise you're going to kill each other in the imminent future is a favourite. First day of work, met this guy like ten minutes ago, and already our mutual fates are sealed by the Vault Dweller School of Hard Knocks.

 

[Zanzoken]

The more I play, the less I understand why they decided to switch to a learn-by-doing system for the skills.

I remember one of the complaints about AoD was that the skill checks encouraged you to hoard points and rely on meta knowledge of how to spend them, but I don't think this fixed the problem. (I also don't think it was a big problem to begin with, but that's a different argument.)

Here's an example. So as I'm exploring the first level I see several locked containers that can be opened with Lockpick 2. I get a new companion in the party who has Lockpick 2 -- great, now I can open the containers. I do so and that character gets the XP. However soon after, I get another new companion, who actually starts at Lockpick 3. Now I have two characters with Lockpick 3, which is redundant, whereas if I'd waited to open those characters with the "right" character they might be Lockpick 4. So the optimal play would be to start over and use this meta-knowledge to make the character that starts with the higher Lockpick skill get the XP.

I think if CS was a single-character RPG like AoD was, then the learn-by-doing system would potentially have addressed this. Essentially your tag skills would define what your character could do, and that's that. But with a party-based RPG, it's not this simple, and people are naturally going to want to spread the skills around and cover as much as they can without redundancies.

I know it's not the Iron Tower way, but to me this is an example of why full party creation is better for RPGs than the Bioware companions approach. If I can plan in advance what my characters can and can't do, then I don't have to rely on this meta-knowledge and can play the game more or less optimally from the start.

Keep in mind I'm just brainstorming here and open to challenges of why I could be wrong.

 

[Pink Eye]

So the optimal play would be to start over and use this meta-knowledge to make the character that starts with the higher Lockpick skill get the XP.

Friendly reminder that a person near your apartment does teach lockpicks which gives about one or two levels of lockpicks:

Screenshot

There's another lockpicks teacher at Habitat too. Then you can find skill tokens, many such things scattered around the world, but there's one at armory that gives another level for lockpicks. In the long run the LPs you may have lost at early game is inconsequential - you will easily make up the difference throughout exploration; but yes it's best to have one specialist in which you assign in party management via P key and have them exclusively do the checks. Iron Tower design has always been about being a specialist in one thing and excelling at it. The party system hasn't changed that philosophy much besides now facilitating you the ability to have multiple specialists that can cover different areas rather than having a solo character that spreads itself thin covering all bases.

 

[Zanzoken]

Thanks, I was aware of the Lockpicking trainer in the Pit. However a cost of 200 credits is a lot to an early game party... if I had given that training to the wrong character then that would have been a significant issue.

I know you're supposed to specialize, particularly in the early game when you are the most resource constrained. It's just an issue of "you don't know what you don't know" and the challenges that come from that, which going back to my original point is something that people complained about with AoD and I assume is the reason why ITS decided to switch to a learn-by-doing system. Admittedly though I haven't read anything VD has written about why that design change was made.

 

[Zanzoken]

Do skills level faster if they are tagged, or is it just a flat +2 bonus?

 

[Mermur]

I utterly loathe Disposition. Being unable to pass several dialogues checks, even when meeting the necessary Persuasion/Streetwise requirements, because I left Charisma at 4 instead of 5, is retarded. The system doesn't add anything to the game at all. I can only imagine that the purpose it serves is to make is so that combat oriented characters HAVE to fight, but in a game that advertises that combat is not the only solution to a problem, it seems incredibly contradictory.

 

[Pink Eye]

Do skills level faster if they are tagged, or is it just a flat +2 bonus?

Just a flat + 2 bonus.

 

[Jermu]

thats why its best to tag skills later with companions since 1->3 takes a lot less time than 5->7 for example if you dont mind cheese
less cheese is to take educated feat later

 

[Parabalus]

thats why its best to tag skills later with companions since 1->3 takes a lot less time than 5->7 for example if you dont mind cheese
less cheese is to take educated feat later

Tag didn't used to affect skill XP progression, I doubt they changed it because it'd be retarded.

 

[Trithne]

I believe that it's +2 applied after everything else, so you don't gain free exp for tagging the skill, making that particular "cheese" not a thing. Basically, a tagged skill at the start of the game is treated as level 3, but you only need to get enough exp to get to level 2 to get to level 4. And so on.

 

[Zanzoken]

I believe that it's +2 applied after everything else, so you don't gain free exp for tagging the skill, making that particular "cheese" not a thing. Basically, a tagged skill at the start of the game is treated as level 3, but you only need to get enough exp to get to level 2 to get to level 4. And so on.

I just tested it and it looks like you're right. The XP requirement didn't change after applying the tag.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

(i didnt read them lol)

its garbage

aight

a certain flair, that bite so to speak, in which Age of Decadence had. However, I attribute this mainly to difference of setting.

Noticed this as well, for me I think it's the GFX, AoD is on that verge where it still activates your imagination, CS not so much.

 

[Whisper]

Another way to look at some of the impressions is that while AOD and CSG both feature trademark VD characters, there's a lot less of a sharp edge for the CSG player. In AOD, the first few people you meet all basically punch you in the nose and scream THIS IS A HARD TOWN KID, GET SMART OR GET FUCKED. There's not too much of that in CSG; people are jaded and world-weary, but they're mostly going to answer your questions, give you quests, and honour their side of the deal.

Characters like Miltiades and Feng are still remembered. Miltiades even became a meme by himself so well he is written.
Noone will remember Jonas and Jia. Why? They are quest-givers, they do not notable personality. I doubt Jia will become a meme.

After playing through the first half of Colony Ship, I was left without much of an urge to continue, but wasn't sure why, so I went back to The Age of Decadence to get a better sense of the differences.
I was immediately struck by the personality in AoD's dialogue. The deceitful and cynical Feng, the dramatic storyteller in the inn, and the overzealous cultist by the fountain. Three distinct characters each leaving a unique impression in the first ten minutes. In comparison, none of CS's NPCs distinguish themselves nearly as well. Both in their motivation and personality, they blend together and I didn't hold strong feelings toward any of them. None of AoD's characters spent much time in the spotlight, but they often managed to make an impact.
I think that part of my disinterest toward the characters of CS stems from its setting. When I first heard that CS would take place on a generation ship, it piqued my interest, but the developers didn't make good use of it like they did with AoD's setting. AoD's history provided a mystery that could be slowly and partially uncovered by the player throughout multiple playthroughs from multiple perspectives with the help of the NPCs. As your main source of lore, the monologues of AoD's NPCs could simultaneously teach the player about the game's world as well as the character speaking. In contrast, the content of the CS characters' speech is much drier and shorter and often only explains the goal of the player's next quest. Of course, many of AoD's squabbles had little relevance to its lore, but in CS, the conflicts seem to occur in more of a vacuum.
As others have said, your character's place in the world of CS puts some strain on suspension of disbelief. The backgrounds of AoD were a convenient way to quickly involve your character in the game's story and to give him a few established relationships. NPCs first meeting the player were often highly skeptical of him. In CS, the player character gives the impression of a "chosen one". NPCs are quick to trust and involve him in their closely-guarded schemes, sometimes using the contrivance that their enemies won't recognize him as their ally. Because he isn't. My confidence in CS's storytelling wore away when

Spoiler

Nico murdered Jay in the Shuttle Bay for the sole purpose of eliminating potential competition, but simultaneously let the player, a witness and co-conspirator he had just met, leave unscathed.

Could not have said better myself. There is drastic change in personalities of characters and dialogue in Colony Ship compared to AoD.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Another way to look at some of the impressions is that while AOD and CSG both feature trademark VD characters, there's a lot less of a sharp edge for the CSG player. In AOD, the first few people you meet all basically punch you in the nose and scream THIS IS A HARD TOWN KID, GET SMART OR GET FUCKED. There's not too much of that in CSG; people are jaded and world-weary, but they're mostly going to answer your questions, give you quests, and honour their side of the deal.

Characters like Miltiades and Feng are still remembered. Miltiades even became a meme by himself so well he is written.

QED, thanks bro!

The only reason I even remember who Miltiades is is because AOD fart huffers can't stfu about him, even though he's just another instance of the same guy described above. Meh.

Ah yes. Feng. I remember Feng. Now that you mention him. Chinese guy. Rips you off if given half a chance in contrast to literally no other character in the entire game. Great character! Amazing writing! Wow!

Here's the thing though. I don't remember anything else about the character and didn't remember it at all until you brought it up. This probably isn't making the case you're hoping it does.

 

[Pink Eye]

This stealth gadget is so strong in late game content once you get access to the level 2 battery and the level 2 thermal absorber. Faythe is like an unseen assassin with it. She basically is able to move on turn one, shoot, use 'nades or whatever, then activate stealth and automatically be hidden from sight while being positioned in a great spot to either flank or get behind enemy in preparation of shooting on next turn. Enemies will, however, focus on your non-stealthed peoples but since my melee dude is a juggy this basically gives Faythe carte blanche to pepper the enemy with her shotty without fear of getting pressured. Basically:

Screenshot

Result is her assassinating people point blank execution style while my Juggy sits there eating bullets:

Screenshot

Stealth gadget is probably my favorite gadget to use on her late game. Double points if you throw in a smokie to conceal her presence as stealth gadget gets a bonus when in smokie effect. Anyways, it's super effective if she's an Initiative based build too. I have to see though if detection even does anything or if she's free to kill shit until the gadget's duration runs out because so far the only time she's been caught is when it runs out.

 

[GloomFrost]

Another way to look at some of the impressions is that while AOD and CSG both feature trademark VD characters, there's a lot less of a sharp edge for the CSG player. In AOD, the first few people you meet all basically punch you in the nose and scream THIS IS A HARD TOWN KID, GET SMART OR GET FUCKED. There's not too much of that in CSG; people are jaded and world-weary, but they're mostly going to answer your questions, give you quests, and honour their side of the deal.

That's a really good point. I do agree that Colony Ship does lack a certain flair, that bite so to speak, in which Age of Decadence had. However, I attribute this mainly to difference of setting. Age of Decadence is a portrayal of an Empire on its last legs, falling apart, teetering on the edge; a decaying corpse rotten by excess, corruption, and a perversion on morality. This is a direct parallel to the great decline that the Roman Empire itself suffered from. In AoD every person was a conniving cutthroat conspiring against each other only looking out for their own interests; hence the competing houses vying for control, the merchants indulging in political intrigue to profit themselves, etc. Even the Imperial Guard wasn't free from this as you had that one general that wanted to take over Teron for petty glory. The point I'm trying to make is that this was all in service to the setting.

In Colony Ship the ship borne are united in the greater themes of the Mission: to colonize Proxima, to make this century long voyage worth a damn, to justify the sacrifice. Yes you have the whole inter-factional conflict, however, even then, each of these factions still believe in the Mission in one capacity or another.

LOL. Translation: Writing, characters and lore in CS suck compared to writing in AoD. It is that simple. Iron tower fanatics have to work extra hard nowadays it seems.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Fantastic game, didn't play the EA until now when I intend to buy the game. Couldn't play Age of Decadence because of how hard it was.....this one seems more approachable.

 

[Pink Eye]

this one seems more approachable.

It is. Has companions to help with combats and skills. Has an optional 'Hero Mode' to learn the combats. Has a bunch of feats that you can combine to make some strong builds. Lots of tools at your disposal honestly.

 

[Infinitron]

The unbelievably cynical descriptions of every person you meet always make me laugh. Just go into a room where some random woman is sat unassumingly behind a desk and the narration is like "YOU'VE SEEN PEOPLE LIKE HER BEFORE - RUTHLESS BASTARDS WITH MORE AMBITION THAN SENSE. YOU CAN SEE IT IN HER EYES: SHE'S THINKING ABOUT TAKING OVER THIS PLACE, AND SHE'LL GLADLY STEP OVER YOUR CORPSE TO GET THERE". And it's just, like, a receptionist or something.

The bit early in Dungeon Rats where you talk to the first questgiver and you and he both look into each others' eyes and realise you're going to kill each other in the imminent future is a favourite. First day of work, met this guy like ten minutes ago, and already our mutual fates are sealed by the Vault Dweller School of Hard Knocks.

Haha, it's true, but Codexers (myself included) can't get enough of this stuff. Same with Chris Avellone's particular brand of "doomed philosopher ubermensch" character, from The Nameless One to Ulysses. It's a kind of wish fulfillment.

 

[Optimist]

Grabbed this yesterday, going to have fun, fun plane flight today.

Obviously messed the chargen and initial level ups up, so I'll need to start again (not a big loss, as I mostly fucked around in the starting areas for a while). Potentially silly question - in order to travel between major locations, do you use the fast travel menu, or are there some transition zones I was unable to find yesterday?

 

[Pink Eye]

in order to travel between major locations, do you use the fast travel menu, or are there some transition zones I was unable to find yesterday?

There are transition zones, yeah, but I just use the m key and click the area I want to teleport to; because I can't be arsed to walk around looking for the interactable spot that will take me to next zone.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

I have to say the setting is......such a breed of fresh air. Not only that but also the overall esthetic of the entire game is fantastic. Reminds me a little bit of Terment: Tides of Numenera, only without the filler text.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

is there a way so see the previous lines of text within a dialogue?