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Colony Ship Early Access Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

jackofshadows

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,082
Isn't Mastermind a bit too OP? (extra feats while levelling, +50% skill XP gain).

During the chargen I thought "why would anyone pick anything else?" Especially coz it's tied to INT which also gives extra XP. Seems like too much of a no-brainer.
XP curve is quite steep so even for solo full version game run it would be like 8-9 level at the end I think i.e. 2 extra feats in exchange for inability to take any other heroic traits which are all very powerful. For full party playthrough it would be like 1 extra feat tops which is very meh compare to say having cult leader.

Skill wise it's a similiar situation: yes, you'll get your ranks way faster but in the end it would mean only like +1/+2 ranks on the tagged skills because curve there is also very rough. Moreover, skill cap is 13 IIRC and if it will be possible to get it without Mastermind then it would be obvious waste of heroic feat.

Also you handicaping yourself by several stat points which could've been relocated elsewhere, they're matter a lot in this game.

Bottom line - it seem meh to me for party-oriented playthrough and barely viable for solo.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,880
Location
San Isidro, Argentina
Beat it with hammer bulid already, overall feels smoother than AoD which is a good thing.
Out of curiousity how hard would it be to implement floats to emulate some living in the city?

Not hard but time consuming. We definitely want to liven up the city more (more characters, walking one, floats like in Teron Market, etc).

I really love it. Can't wait for the next chapters.

Thanks!

the girl on the second level of the first tower in hydroponics bugged on me and I could level up computers to 10 for free
the plant monster/things bugs on me 3 out of 4 time on its first attack. It release gas and then stops before doing the head grabbing animation. The mouse icon remain an hourglass and I cant do anything apart fromn reloading

The computer loop was fixed.
About the creeper, we can't replicate it getting stuck. In my saves it attacks correctly. Can you give us a save?
 

Binky

Arcane
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
453
These identical portraits are giving me serious JA2 vibes.
aBdGuRC.jpg


I've done two talker runs, once siding with Toni Braxton, once with Al Swearengen. How does one side with Mercy?
 
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Unwanted

Savecummer

Latest Doxxer Account
Edgy
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Mar 6, 2021
Messages
330
several stat points which could've been relocated elsewhere, they're matter a lot in this game.
Ehhh, which ones? Hire Jed with 2 streetwise, profit. Throw enough grenades to get the +1 follower implant.
There are barely stat checks in dialogue. I've seen 7 int and 9? per in the armory. Rest is skills.

Char with 4 in all stats, picked the Prowl feat.
ACvBQnx.jpg
 

Ihavenoidea

Educated
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
80
One more thing - was "one feat, one point" approach for leveling considered, or would it made the game too easy? Even with trainers who can lift the skill to a certain threshold added.
I myself didn't have much problem with the 1 person run, and raised my skills so I could do most of the things I needed in the demo (I really like the mechanic of skills growing when you use them), but the main complaint currently seems to be on the "one path". Now I understand that it would be quite a big design/balance change, especially so late in the game, and I personally like the game as is, but after seeing feedback on steam/some gameplay videos it just made me curious.
Here is my solo char from yesterday, I assumed that level 5 would be achievable, but I feel good about him overall.

comment_1617748459YkD5outoIRp1vV96DJU6vv.jpg
 

dbx

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
4,045
Location
Wannabe Austria
About the creeper, we can't replicate it getting stuck. In my saves it attacks correctly. Can you give us a save?

Unfortunately I quicksaved away that part. I plan to do another playthrough in the weekend. If it happensa again I'll make sure to send a save.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
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Messages
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Location
San Isidro, Argentina
Unfortunately I quicksaved away that part. I plan to do another playthrough in the weekend. If it happensa again I'll make sure to send a save.

No prob, mostly curious about party and equipment composition.

One more thing - was "one feat, one point" approach for leveling considered, or would it made the game too easy?

I assume you mean "1 skill point", but that wouldn't work as not all skill points are equal (level 2 costs 40, level 3 120). So it would have to be like AoD with lots of points, with them to spare and it's becoming a bit of an hybrid mess.

comment_1617748459YkD5outoIRp1vV96DJU6vv.jpg

Really cool combat character. I need to increase the upper range of the skill curve a bit, blunt 8 is a bit too much even for solo. He'll get some nice combat opportunities in The Habitat with that reputation ;)
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
2,573
Location
Once and Future Wasteland
Serpent in the Staglands Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Skill wise it's a similiar situation: yes, you'll get your ranks way faster but in the end it would mean only like +1/+2 ranks on the tagged skills because curve there is also very rough. Moreover, skill cap is 13 IIRC and if it will be possible to get it without Mastermind then it would be obvious waste of heroic feat.
I wonder if it's actually most valuable for non-tagged skills. Not sure how everything works mechanically but with my mastermind guy I leveled non-tagged Steal up from 1 to 4 really quickly, while Oscar said that they're trying to balance Steal to give it more leveling possibilities, so it feels like it's helping a lot there. If that's the case, could be good for jack of all trades type characters.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
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Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,880
Location
San Isidro, Argentina
I wonder if it's actually most valuable for non-tagged skills. Not sure how everything works mechanically but with my mastermind guy I leveled non-tagged Steal up from 1 to 4 really quickly, while Oscar said that they're trying to balance Steal to give it more leveling possibilities, so it feels like it's helping a lot there. If that's the case, could be good for jack of all trades type characters.

Yeah, the idea is that at some point you'll run out of leveling possibilities if you don't tag or make choices that support that playstyle, but more around levels 5-6. We are aiming to create more mutually exclusive opportunities like the token terminal (which feels like a cool "level up" screen), and we'll definitely balance the skill gains according to the amount of opportunities we create.

For example, that character posted won't be offered some stealing quests, and it should be only so much you could get just from exploring around.
 

jackofshadows

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,082
Ehhh, which ones? Hire Jed with 2 streetwise, profit. Throw enough grenades to get the +1 follower implant.
There are barely stat checks in dialogue. I've seen 7 int and 9? per in the armory. Rest is skills.
Also 7 str in hydroponics alpha tower and 7 char in Mercy dialogue. Probably there's more stat checks but most importantly they are strongly felt in combat, int heavily affect skills. Basic raising of skills is nothing, reaching significant levels of them is what matters. And even if you'll be able to finish CS with 4 in every stat (I hope they will tune difficulty up) that'll prove nothing.
I wonder if it's actually most valuable for non-tagged skills. Not sure how everything works mechanically but with my mastermind guy I leveled non-tagged Steal up from 1 to 4 really quickly, while Oscar said that they're trying to balance Steal to give it more leveling possibilities, so it feels like it's helping a lot there. If that's the case, could be good for jack of all trades type characters.
Well yeah like I said, first ranks would be obtained really fast but beyond 5-6 levels that's another story. Although you could raise much more skills overall with this approach which can seriously benefit your char, I'll give you that.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
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Messages
5,719
Location
California
This bug might already be known, but in Hydroponics, if you fix the elevator and take it to the top, when you climb down the elevator is unavailable (I think this is intended). However, if you attempt to climb and fail, you can then repair the elevator again (gaining Electronics) and take it to the top again. This can be repeated ad infinitum, giving tons of experience.

I will say that the "intended" design would be extremely frustrating for me in most circumstances since you have a hard computer check up there (with no way of knowing that's coming), so a tech player who has the electronics to repair but not even computer to use the computer (which is what happened to me) would miss out permanently, without any heads-up that he should wait to ascend. Likewise, it seems improbable that someone with high enough strength to climb up after the elevator is gone would have the computer skill. So this check falls into the category of requiring foreknowledge/metaknowledge, which I think generally players disliked in AOD.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,880
Location
San Isidro, Argentina
This bug might already be known, but in Hydroponics, if you fix the elevator and take it to the top, when you climb down the elevator is unavailable (I think this is intended). However, if you attempt to climb and fail, you can then repair the elevator again (gaining Electronics) and take it to the top again. This can be repeated ad infinitum, giving tons of experience.

Should be fixed in todays build.

I will say that the "intended" design would be extremely frustrating for me in most circumstances since you have a hard computer check up there (with no way of knowing that's coming), so a tech player who has the electronics to repair but not even computer to use the computer (which is what happened to me) would miss out permanently, without any heads-up that he should wait to ascend. Likewise, it seems improbable that someone with high enough strength to climb up after the elevator is gone would have the computer skill. So this check falls into the category of requiring foreknowledge/metaknowledge, which I think generally players disliked in AOD.

Yeah, I agree here, it's not really intended to be that way. We'll look into it.
 
Unwanted

Savecummer

Latest Doxxer Account
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Messages
330
that'll prove nothing.
What else would you want? In AOD you would not get out of the first room with the trader roffles...
Here the party lifts you up, stats dont matter.
Currently in EA, MC has enough xp to pick all locks, steal everything, pass all (bio, comp, elec) Science checks.
Here is a hypothetical: MC has 6 Cha, rest of stats is 4. So you max out the party size with 1 implant. They do the combat with MC sniping. Only MC does the the skill'ing.
And since all the 5 skills mentioned are giving xp only the char doing the checks, your MC should be max'ing all.
The only way to stop the MC would be to gate the later checks behind ever increasing threshold, that are only reachable with Tagged skills.
Stats on the MC dont matter. Well, 2 points in CHA are the most important stat. AND if the Skillcheck gates are balanced around tagged skills - than INT and Gifted become the second most important stats.
This is impossible to balance, or rather it should be balanced against a full party but we all know that its gonna be balanced for the casual Steamtard.
Dont know how one can say that "stats matter a lot" right now. Solo maybe...

Here is an exercise for the reader:
Draw the skill xp line for un- and tagged skill on their progression table... see the overlapping diffs.
 

whocares

Savant
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
450
I will not eat the bugs. I will not live in a pod. I will not use 2FA.
 
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PEACH

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
286
found a bug:

you can loop the Holy Grail quest and get infinite experience from it by repeatedly going from the console in Depot A2 --> back to Tanner. the amount you get per loop is fairly minor, but I tested it several times and it seems to work consistently.

process I used was:

1. use the access card
2. activate elevator (don't have passcode)
3. leave
4. speak with tanner
5. repeat
 
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Riddler

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
2,389
Bubbles In Memoria
Played through the EA and I liked it overall.

While I liked the visuals of the game I also felt that visibility sometimes was poor. I had a bit of trouble differentiating between different levels and picking out characters from the background. Perhaps was just tired though.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,880
Location
San Isidro, Argentina
Played through the EA and I liked it overall.

While I liked the visuals of the game I also felt that visibility sometimes was poor. I had a bit of trouble differentiating between different levels and picking out characters from the background. Perhaps was just tired though.

I still need to do some lighting passes on the game, especially on the pit, so that should improve.
 

jackofshadows

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,082
What else would you want? In AOD you would not get out of the first room with the trader roffles...
Here the party lifts you up, stats dont matter.
Currently in EA, MC has enough xp to pick all locks, steal everything, pass all (bio, comp, elec) Science checks.
Here is a hypothetical: MC has 6 Cha, rest of stats is 4. So you max out the party size with 1 implant. They do the combat with MC sniping. Only MC does the the skill'ing.
And since all the 5 skills mentioned are giving xp only the char doing the checks, your MC should be max'ing all.
The only way to stop the MC would be to gate the later checks behind ever increasing threshold, that are only reachable with Tagged skills.
Stats on the MC dont matter. Well, 2 points in CHA are the most important stat. AND if the Skillcheck gates are balanced around tagged skills - than INT and Gifted become the second most important stats.
This is impossible to balance, or rather it should be balanced against a full party but we all know that its gonna be balanced for the casual Steamtard.
Dont know how one can say that "stats matter a lot" right now. Solo maybe...
Well, you're right, I mostly had solo in mind but if you'll hypothetically be able to get carried by 2 companions having only 6 charisma MC then it's fine, MC's stats would still affect his combat abilities i.e. adjust overall difficulty. Significantly I might add since companions are not min-maxed death machines - they cannot get implants and as far as I know heroic traits as well (maybe with some future exceptions who knows).

But if you mean be able to discard combat completely only with companions... Idk that seem boring, I hope that'll be impossible to do.

Like Elhoim said later on checks will be harder and harder and the final ones would be hardly passable by companions with low int/untagged key skills. If someone will pull that off anyway it would require tons of meta-knowledge which is at odds with casual steamtard approach. Why would they tune it around them anyway? The game targeting niche audiency, not broad one.
Draw the skill xp line for un- and tagged skill on their progression table... see the overlapping diffs.
I'd gladly take a look at the plot of it but can't be bothered to make it myself. Besides, it's quite obvious that tagging a skill mostly affect its very early progression but won't matter in the end that much. But with tagging it/having high int you could skip some opportunities to use certain skills which means raise the different ones instead if we're talking about some kind of choice how to approach the quest/situation etc.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,719
Location
California
Whew! After much wrangling with Steam's character limit, I've finished my review, which is here: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197989271430/recommended/648410

I'll paste the text here as well:
Colony Ship opens with the musical strains of a melancholy western and a main menu that looks like the well-worn cover of a paperback space opera from the 1960s. The menu reveals the subtitle: "A Post Earth Role Playing Game." From the outset, Iron Tower Studio pays homage to its trinity of core inspirations: HBO's Deadwood, Heinlein's Orphans of the Sky, and Interplay's Fallout (which was subtitled "A Post Nuclear Role Playing Game"). If you enjoyed any of those works -- and especially if you enjoyed all of them -- the question is not whether you should play Colony Ship ("CSG") but when you should play.

CSG is a superb and unique game that I can recommend wholeheartedly even in its Early Access form. And since it is much cheaper now than it will be on release, this is the time to buy it. But since only the first portion of the game is currently available, and since even that portion will improve significantly through testing, you may want to buy now and play later if you prefer to prioritize your first experience with the game. If you can't resist diving in, or if you want to help shape and improve an already excellent RPG, there is no reason not to dive in now.

It's no spoiler to say that CSG is about a "generation ship" -- a slower-than-light vessel sent, lifetimes ago, from Earth to Proxima Centauri in hopes of establishing a colony at that nearest, yet still vastly distant, star. A generation ship rests on an unusual social compact. The first (Earthborn) generation chooses to make a tremendous sacrifice for sake of the last (colony-establishing) generation, who will have a chance at freedom and utopia in a new and unspoiled home. But the intervening Shipborn generations have no choice; enjoy no moral satisfaction at having made such a choice; and yet bear a sacrifice even greater than that of the founders. As the game's opening narration puts it: "You will never feel the sun's warmth under a blue sky, never hear the wind in the branches of a tree, and never swim in the ocean, because you had the misfortune to be born on the Ship. You have never seen Earth, and you'll never see Proxima Centauri either, your past and future both sacrificed by some dim and nameless ancestor to the greater good of the Mission."

For these middle generations, the Ship is neither Ark nor Mayflower; it is a prison and pressure-cooker. The game begins well after resentment and loss of faith have boiled over: a failed Mutiny has left every aspect of the Ship seriously damaged, not the least of which its social structure. Parts of the Ship have degenerated into post-apocalyptic ruin; parts into totalitarian dystopias; and parts into Wild West near-anarchy. Genetically engineered lifeforms meant to help colonize the promised land have gone haywire, unleashing a bestiary of Golden Age science fiction foes (giant man-eating frogs and starfish; hideously mutated humans; ever-spreading deadly fungi; etc.). Equipment meant to establish the new colony is being cannibalized to maintain a subsistence existence aboard the Ship. And enterprising souls are all too eager to arm the warring factions with both "ancient" high-tech weapons like lasers and plasma rifles and "modern" low-tech weapons like shivs, cudgels, and gunpowder firearms.

It's no longer a matter of living out one's life en route to Proxima Centauri; now it is a question whether one will survive at all and whether the Mission will even succeed. Very few still respect the past or plan for the future. Short-term thinking, with all its ferocity and freneticism, dominate the Ship.

In short: this is a bleak and fascinating setting that could come only from the developer of The Age of Decadence ("AOD"). To be sure, anyone familiar with classic science fiction, RPGs, or westerns will recognize dozens or hundreds of inspirations that have been neatly fitted together; but like a mosaic, the setting shines not only because of the bright pieces from which it is made, but because of the care and sophistication with which they have been assembled.

The player takes the barely defined role of a "scav" (a scavenger) eking out an existence in the Pit, a cargo hold converted into shantytown plainly inspired by Deadwood. It's a perfect starting hub that offers rich opportunities for any character build (a smooth talker with a knack for knives, a dumb-as-nails crackshot rifleman, a computer nerd with a body fit to bear many technological implants, etc.). In comparison with AOD, CSG is more lenient in terms of what builds feel viable -- if AOD pushed toward archetypes (and to some extent required metaknowledge for hybrids), CSG seems to expect players to mix-and-match skills, attributes, and feats to character a unique character. Character creation also cleverly weaves in the game's backstory.

Gaps in your abilities can be filled by companions. In another leap forward from AOD, there are memorable recruitable NPCs who can assist both inside and outside of battle. They have their own personalities and values, but CSG (thankfully) avoids the cRPG rut in which the player character serves as therapist and panderer to a coterie of needy basket cases. Your companions could get by just fine without you, but they -- like you -- don't object to having another pair of eyes to watch their back.

In the best tradition of cRPGs, you're soon launched on two main quests (one to obtain a valuable treasure, the other to pick sides in a conflict between two rival factions). But in pleasant contrast, these quests have no particular urgency. You aren't asked to avert the end of the world or prevent a demon from rising again. Your home isn't burnt to a cinder by marauders. Instead, these two quests serve as a means to push you into (and out of) the Pit, where you soon come across a variety of side quests, feuds, ancient machines, secrets, "dungeons," etc. You'll have to "make the best life you can and consign your what-ifs and might-have-beens to the void," as the intro puts it.

CSG is an very open game. You immediately have the run of the aforementioned hub, and you soon add two large "dungeons" (the Hydroponics Lab and the Armory) full of NPCs, foes, environmental interactions, traps, loot, etc. There's minimal hand-holding (perhaps to a fault), but because the game offers so many fun solutions, the feeling is less that of a drowning man and more that of a mosquito at the beach: so many places to bite. For those who like combat, there're plenty of challenging, systemically deep, tactical turn-based battles. For those who don't, there's a full-featured stealth system, rich diplomatic paths, and hacker options.

With strong writing, excellent quest design, and evocative graphics, the game gives a real sense of satisfaction when you put a bullet in a bully, con an implant off a rival scav, jury-rig a failing piece of technology, open up a new area, or learn new backstory. And the writing has a dark humor that makes even failure rewarding.

Obviously there's still a long way to go for CSG. But the developers have proven with AOD that they use Early Access in the best possible way. As the good book says, "Iron sharpens iron." Iron Tower pushes its players with challenging gameplay, but does not push them away. Negative and positive feedback alike helped AOD go from good to great, and such feedback should take CSG from a great game to a masterpiece.

I'll end where I started: I wholeheartedly recommend buying Colony Ship. Whether to play it now or later depends on your disposition. But either way, you should play it sometime. Iron Tower Studio has created that most special of indie games: one that exudes the heart and soul of a small team, while also boasting the depth of gameplay, quality of writing and design, slick graphics, and beautiful music of a large developer. Don't miss it.

For the bastard rusty_shackleford and other tl;dr folks:
I'll end where I started: I wholeheartedly recommend buying Colony Ship. Whether to play it now or later depends on your disposition. But either way, you should play it sometime. Iron Tower Studio has created that most special of indie games: one that exudes the heart and soul of a small team, while also boasting the depth of gameplay, quality of writing and design, slick graphics, and beautiful music of a large developer. Don't miss it.

Also: I'm not writing reviews for Codexers, but for other people who might be swayed one way or another, so YMMV.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
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Messages
13,164
Also: I'm not writing reviews for Codexers, but for other people who might be swayed one way or another, so YMMV.
you got it wrong. One writes review against codex wishes
 

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