Gothic Chronicles Of Myrtana: Archolos mod for Gothic 2

[Jvegi]

game

mod

 

[rusty_shackleford]

gothic 2 is just a mod for gothic

 

[Lyre Mors]

There are some seriously unhappy, miserable cunts on this website, but this might take the cake in recent memory. Holy shit.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

There are some seriously unhappy, miserable cunts on this website, but this might take the cake in recent memory. Holy shit.

Fuck you I hate cake.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

it's like a 5 minute intro scene, starting to get the feeling he's not very bright

 

[Shadenuat]

5 minutes is already somewhat above the clock for Gothics/Risens, which generally follow the formula of complete no-nonsense early games. PB designer would make you fight some rats on ship stairs and then from the coast you would be on your own way, no handholding or dramatic scenes with NPCs.
Fans are really the best at misjudging things they are fans of, but modders take it to extreme. Everything is supposed to be same but "bigger", but this is what actually goes against of what made G1 so good.
These little misjudgements is what in the end makes this mod to play more like Mafia (or dare say, Witcha3, even with "follow this stuff scattered around ground to quest point") on Gothic engine (without super solid Mafia writing). A unforgivable amount of quest locked doors at all kinds of places, from most interesting parts of wilderness to city or sewers (really hurts on exploration aspect; Id be less pissed if there at least some explanation why you can't enter somewhere a-la Colony in G2); overly heavy scripted quest design where Marvin seems to be running into one absolutely unforseen ambush after another and, of course, a oddly high amount of unkillable NPCs, where I wonder if more of them are unkillable than actually mortal, including random cloth washing citizen lady who took great offense on me murdering a wanted criminal. This seems to include random smiths at godnowhere corners of slums being immune to Sleep spell too for no reason, btw.

i am somewhat of a modar myself hurr dur, and so I don't care for bugs, crashes, obsession with food recipes and crafting which, imo, doesn't even add much to the game (the idea of frying meat in G wasn't to create "crafteng", it was to do what Ultima or Arx Fatalis did: allow player to interact with things in the world); i can forgive writing for at least not having a lot of bad writing (no good writing > lots of bad writing), but for all the seemingly open world I can't but feel that I am actually on the rails and it kills my fun. The quests aren't liek you meet interesting people of interesting factions in the world doing their own thing; it's just "hi" - "go kill everything around and nail some boards to roof"; or oddly linear chains of assigments that you follow exactly how written in journal and get reward; and a lot of missed opportunities where parts of the quest cannot be picked upon or noticed because it only happens if you actually start it/pick up notice from board etc. which again, dramatically lowers world coherency.

And speaking of the world being coherent, 2 words on setting, because what is g-game without bloodflies near your toilet: what is it about? I can somewhat sense idea of merchant guilds with personal armies, galleons and vineyards, but it seems like just everything from Gothics was slammed together + extra biodiversity on top. G1 was maybe not Morrowind unique, but still very; in this one critters from it and NOTR and banal bears rest near trolls and wargs, and then a bunch of frogmen and raptors spawn behind you even tho you already cleared a path like 5 minutes ago.
Magic is also in a strange limbo. Learning first circle of spells through books and some runes scattered around is OK, but then you realise it goes on like this. Where are cranky old mentors, speaking to gods (who afaik are source of majik in G), odd weather phenomena and rituals, and all that apprenticeship jazz? It feels like magic in this one was slapped on top of game out of necessity, oddly with magic damage enhancing gear and NOTR spells which are, not very balanced for mid early game (i cast Fist/Gayser u ded).

Strange, because in other respects mod is surprisingly decently banalced. There is good armor, weapon and monster distribution (minus idiotic respawns in the air), reasonable LP ratio, and enough options for gearing up. This is probably the biggest appeal of the mod, in a sense - you always feel that just a bit more, and main character would finally stop being bullied around by the world and stand on his own feet, so you clench your teeth and search for the brutha, also in hope of something interesting gonna happen. After ten(s) of hours and getting my second guild armor, I am still waiting tho.

 

[Jvegi]

5 minutes is already somewhat above the clock for Gothics/Risens, which generally follow the formula of complete no-nonsense early games. PB designer would make you fight some rats on ship stairs and then from the coast you would be on your own way, no handholding or dramatic scenes with NPCs.
Fans are really the best at misjudging things they are fans of, but modders take it to extreme. Everything is supposed to be same but "bigger", but this is what actually goes against of what made G1 so good.
These little misjudgements is what in the end makes this mod to play more like Mafia (or dare say, Witcha3, even with "follow this stuff scattered around ground to quest point") on Gothic engine (without super solid Mafia writing). A unforgivable amount of quest locked doors at all kinds of places, from most interesting parts of wilderness to city or sewers (really hurts on exploration aspect; Id be less pissed if there at least some explanation why you can't enter somewhere a-la Colony in G2); overly heavy scripted quest design where Marvin seems to be running into one absolutely unforseen ambush after another and, of course, a oddly high amount of unkillable NPCs, where I wonder if more of them are unkillable than actually mortal, including random cloth washing citizen lady who took great offense on me murdering a wanted criminal. This seems to include random smiths at godnowhere corners of slums being immune to Sleep spell too for no reason, btw.

i am somewhat of a modar myself hurr dur, and so I don't care for bugs, crashes, obsession with food recipes and crafting which, imo, doesn't even add much to the game (the idea of frying meat in G wasn't to create "crafteng", it was to do what Ultima or Arx Fatalis did: allow player to interact with things in the world); i can forgive writing for at least not having a lot of bad writing (no good writing > lots of bad writing), but for all the seemingly open world I can't but feel that I am actually on the rails and it kills my fun. The quests aren't liek you meet interesting people of interesting factions in the world doing their own thing; it's just "hi" - "go kill everything around and nail some boards to roof"; or oddly linear chains of assigments that you follow exactly how written in journal and get reward; and a lot of missed opportunities where parts of the quest cannot be picked upon or noticed because it only happens if you actually start it/pick up notice from board etc. which again, dramatically lowers world coherency.

And speaking of the world being coherent, 2 words on setting, because what is g-game without bloodflies near your toilet: what is it about? I can somewhat sense idea of merchant guilds with personal armies, galleons and vineyards, but it seems like just everything from Gothics was slammed together + extra biodiversity on top. G1 was maybe not Morrowind unique, but still very; in this one critters from it and NOTR and banal bears rest near trolls and wargs, and then a bunch of frogmen and raptors spawn behind you even tho you already cleared a path like 5 minutes ago.
Magic is also in a strange limbo. Learning first circle of spells through books and some runes scattered around is OK, but then you realise it goes on like this. Where are cranky old mentors, speaking to gods (who afaik are source of majik in G), odd weather phenomena and rituals, and all that apprenticeship jazz? It feels like magic in this one was slapped on top of game out of necessity, oddly with magic damage enhancing gear and NOTR spells which are, not very balanced for mid early game (i cast Fist/Gayser u ded).

Strange, because in other respects mod is surprisingly decently banalced. There is good armor, weapon and monster distribution (minus idiotic respawns in the air), reasonable LP ratio, and enough options for gearing up. This is probably the biggest appeal of the mod, in a sense - you always feel that just a bit more, and main character would finally stop being bullied around by the world and stand on his own feet, so you clench your teeth and search for the brutha, also in hope of something interesting gonna happen. After ten(s) of hours and getting my second guild armor, I am still waiting tho.

Yes.

 

[Tacgnol]

Getting towards the end of my second playthrough (Just finishing quests before starting the final dungeon and section). I've clocked 60 hours, so the 2nd playthrough will likely end up being longer than my first.

City guards re-play has been well worth it. There is different content in every chapter, and even non-faction affiliated sections, such as the pirate base in Chapter 3, have some big differences between the merchant and guard playthrough.

Been really fun to do quests differently and resolve some of the things I missed out on in the first playthrough.

I'm shocked they managed to create something so long that has so much distinct content between the two faction paths.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

. I've clocked 60 hours

I'm in the third chapter with 70-some hours played
I'm not near the end, am I?

 

[Tygrende]

. I've clocked 60 hours

I'm in the third chapter with 70-some hours played
I'm not near the end, am I?

Nah, I think my 1st run was about 100h. I wouldn't expect less than 80 if you're trying to do everything the game has to offer.

 

[curds]

I've never played a game longer than 40-50 hours without getting bored or burned out before Archolos. It truly is a gem.

That said, I think Shadenuat's criticisms of the game are fair and true. It feels more railroady and cinematic at times than a Gothic game should. Modders gonna mod. For me though, the pros of this mod outweigh the cons significantly.

 

[curds]

Get out of here with those ratings. Codexers need to start realising that it's okay to have criticisms for a game that you love.

 

[Shadenuat]

The pirate chapter was uhh janky, especially with AoD scripted player kills. I wonder how many ppl got stabbed because they decided to take shortcut to the shore by just swimming there, instead of properly walking out and gettin handed quest item with "this items u need to find, updated my journal". Marvin suddenly game of throwing big guy was also O_o journal: now sit on a bench. thank u journal.

One game that sprang to my mind was Atelier Ayesha. There, main plot is also about finding your relative, but it is done in entirely different manner: relative plot is around 50% of the game, and after saving them whole game opens with 99 different endings. There are 2 timers, well one really, counting days towards saving or u lose, and global timer. You decide how you spend days after getting ur sister back (and into party btw), and what ending there will be; and before you gotta go fast since clock is ticking.
I guess it's easier to make comparisons to Fallout 1 really tho, and water chip. Put princessbrutha into darkest furthest away castle behind op mobs. Spread all kinds of clues like in NOTR missing people quest. And then let player roam free. Update gameworld/new chapter after bruthafind. Most players would go through main plot anyway, and some would Elex-jetpack to him in 20 minutes, but so what? It would be much more engaging and unique playthrough for everyone.
And the very first chapter, I'd probably just make a separate island where from you escape with brutha first, replacing the tuto village. It's always just much more effective to allow player make influentual n dramatic choices about their past by themselves instead of being told about them.
That is if you want brutha; personally I'd just throw him out and maybe make plot about bulding your own village with refugees and their relationship with City. Plot like that would allow modders to mod their saw wood build houses stuff; and is easier to write when you don't know what you even want from your own narrative (which how mod story feels to me).

It be hard for me to remember game that develops so absurdly slow except maybe Kingdom Come deliverance, even if yeah, I lawnmowed all island except bad cursed ruins although even those were mowable by using shadowbeast scroll, decided to keep for later. A1&2 almost drained me of all the willpower, pirates were at least a change of pace .

From random quests, I liked wolf son quest, it had written by Vault Dweller vibe to it (if we forget that Marvin has little to gain from engaging in such random quests or others family business). Although it contrasted with me wrapping up every leftover quest like "open quest door with 3 goblins > report to NPC about quest door being open", as well as masterpieces like "collect fish", "collect 24 grapes and 10 apples", etc.

ps who do devs think they are trying to sell me turning wonderful mana restoring samogon into 80 mana restoring womyn fruit wine? so what if I lose 20 hp drinking every bottle of samogon, it doesn't matter. And now that I have like 100 various bottles of alcohol and Ice Lance u better bring out dragons or something, because anything less aint stopping me.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Get out of here with those ratings. Codexers need to start realising that it's okay to have criticisms for a game that you love.

I agree with the premise that most of the shit they removed from gothic was an overall improvement
my only complaint is the forced death sequences which are terrible. Thankfully there's not too many, but they really knock you out of the game.

the 'cinematic' sequences are usually rather brief and a nice break from the core gameloop, it's good when a game changes things up, the intro probably being the only one that I'd change by having a small scene before it in the city with your brother that's more open-ended.

 

[Tacgnol]

. I've clocked 60 hours

I'm in the third chapter with 70-some hours played
I'm not near the end, am I?

Nope, you've got a while to go if you're only in chapter 3.

 

[Alphons]

having a small scene before it in the city with your brother that's more open-ended.

I might be mixing it up with History of Khorinis, but I remember them mentioning early on when discussing Marvin that the player character is different from the Nameless One, because he has a set background and that we will be able to explore it in a prologue with a short main quest and a couple of side quests, taking place on another island.

Maybe they planned something with securing the payment for the ship and the side quests would be just ways to make the required amount of money.

 

[Shadenuat]

Chapter 4, if at snails pace, but writing and questing seem to improve in quality, yet still has a feeling of straightforwardness as journal holds your hand, especially in murdamystary. Work for lizardman banker xardas now. No brutha, instead they give me not-Ynnefier. G1 would have ended 30 hours ago, here we finally learned there are Bad Guys somewhere. Cannot see them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Can't go up in ranks in my own faction because I have 0 melee or bow skills. Desire to proceed anywhere = low, yet also don't want to just lolrush main story. Will walk around Old City and shoot some new mobs with my ice lance, restore some sanity points.
From quests innos statuettes was another taff but fair sort of style of writing, but imagine how more effective it could have been if you played fire mage or paladin yourself.
Master Pickpocketer provides some extra lore and interesting thingies finally nice.

 

[cretin]

5 minutes is already somewhat above the clock for Gothics/Risens, which generally follow the formula of complete no-nonsense early games. PB designer would make you fight some rats on ship stairs and then from the coast you would be on your own way, no handholding or dramatic scenes with NPCs.
Fans are really the best at misjudging things they are fans of, but modders take it to extreme. Everything is supposed to be same but "bigger", but this is what actually goes against of what made G1 so good.
These little misjudgements is what in the end makes this mod to play more like Mafia (or dare say, Witcha3, even with "follow this stuff scattered around ground to quest point") on Gothic engine (without super solid Mafia writing). A unforgivable amount of quest locked doors at all kinds of places, from most interesting parts of wilderness to city or sewers (really hurts on exploration aspect; Id be less pissed if there at least some explanation why you can't enter somewhere a-la Colony in G2); overly heavy scripted quest design where Marvin seems to be running into one absolutely unforseen ambush after another and, of course, a oddly high amount of unkillable NPCs, where I wonder if more of them are unkillable than actually mortal, including random cloth washing citizen lady who took great offense on me murdering a wanted criminal. This seems to include random smiths at godnowhere corners of slums being immune to Sleep spell too for no reason, btw.

i am somewhat of a modar myself hurr dur, and so I don't care for bugs, crashes, obsession with food recipes and crafting which, imo, doesn't even add much to the game (the idea of frying meat in G wasn't to create "crafteng", it was to do what Ultima or Arx Fatalis did: allow player to interact with things in the world); i can forgive writing for at least not having a lot of bad writing (no good writing > lots of bad writing), but for all the seemingly open world I can't but feel that I am actually on the rails and it kills my fun. The quests aren't liek you meet interesting people of interesting factions in the world doing their own thing; it's just "hi" - "go kill everything around and nail some boards to roof"; or oddly linear chains of assigments that you follow exactly how written in journal and get reward; and a lot of missed opportunities where parts of the quest cannot be picked upon or noticed because it only happens if you actually start it/pick up notice from board etc. which again, dramatically lowers world coherency.

And speaking of the world being coherent, 2 words on setting, because what is g-game without bloodflies near your toilet: what is it about? I can somewhat sense idea of merchant guilds with personal armies, galleons and vineyards, but it seems like just everything from Gothics was slammed together + extra biodiversity on top. G1 was maybe not Morrowind unique, but still very; in this one critters from it and NOTR and banal bears rest near trolls and wargs, and then a bunch of frogmen and raptors spawn behind you even tho you already cleared a path like 5 minutes ago.
Magic is also in a strange limbo. Learning first circle of spells through books and some runes scattered around is OK, but then you realise it goes on like this. Where are cranky old mentors, speaking to gods (who afaik are source of majik in G), odd weather phenomena and rituals, and all that apprenticeship jazz? It feels like magic in this one was slapped on top of game out of necessity, oddly with magic damage enhancing gear and NOTR spells which are, not very balanced for mid early game (i cast Fist/Gayser u ded).

Strange, because in other respects mod is surprisingly decently banalced. There is good armor, weapon and monster distribution (minus idiotic respawns in the air), reasonable LP ratio, and enough options for gearing up. This is probably the biggest appeal of the mod, in a sense - you always feel that just a bit more, and main character would finally stop being bullied around by the world and stand on his own feet, so you clench your teeth and search for the brutha, also in hope of something interesting gonna happen. After ten(s) of hours and getting my second guild armor, I am still waiting tho.

I appreciate posts like this, that push back against popular sentiment on the codex, but aren't just drive by trolling.

No opinion of my own on the matter, haven't played enough of the mod yet.

 

[Shadenuat]

So far my main thought on matter is this.

Gothic and PB design works in a such a manner, that player is primarely Turned On as long as world provides them with strife, mostly due to savvy play with numbers and level design. The combat itself is easy, but we can pretend it is difficult, as long as the world still can annoy us more that we can dominate it, and developer can throw new enemy types at us.
Once game is out of that due to player mostly lawmowing everything, what next? Don't know, because usually PB games that worked just wrap themselves up quicker than you can get bored with your own power.
What other ways we have to prolongue such agony? Potentially, Problem Solving. How Fallout mods do it. How do they do it? Through robust character system. Does Gothic have enough of a robust character system to facilitate enough management and problem solving through character building (ie skill checks etc.)? It doesn't.
And so assume autopilot and me feeling that after that point game plays itself.
Perhaps utterly brilliant quest design could help to go around the issue for a while, but it's not possible to do brilliant quest design for 100+ hours, so there u go.

 

[Jvegi]

but aren't just drive by trolling.

?

I'm honestly, seriously appalled by the design decision I see myself and hear about from everywhere. I see a rape being done on the design principles of the holy first Gothics and I call it as such. Everyone seems to agree, yet they do not care. The decline is real.

Getting towards the end of my second playthrough

Only 5 more until you agree with me.

 

[Tacgnol]

but aren't just drive by trolling.

?

Spoiler

"I'm honestly, seriously appalled by the design decision I see myself and hear about from everywhere. I see a rape being done on the design principles of the holy first Gothics and I call it as such. Everyone seems to agree, yet they do not care. The decline is real.

Getting towards the end of my second playthrough

Only 5 more until you agree with me.

Nah, I'm not Skyway.

 

[cretin]

but aren't just drive by trolling.

?

I'm honestly, seriously appalled by the design decision I see myself and hear about from everywhere. I see a rape being done on the design principles of the holy first Gothics and I call it as such. Everyone seems to agree, yet they do not care. The decline is real.

Getting towards the end of my second playthrough

Only 5 more until you agree with me.

I'm not accusing you of trolling, I'm just saying its a good poast. I was actually thinking of that one poster with the village retard tag (i forget his name) who just drive by shit posts whenever he wants to be a contrarian. It's boring. People on here should absolutely savage sacred cows or flavor of the month, but they should do it in a way that inspires some thinking about design.

 

[Tacgnol]

One thing I did notice is that the Guards path seems to include more instakills and cutscenes than the Merchants/Mercenary path.

At least that's how it felt between the two playthroughs. Quite possible I've forgotten a few from team Lorenzo.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

can't help but laugh everytime I see a black bear and it's way stronger than a regular bear
they're basically mini-bears irl, they run from everything and are scavengers

 

[curds]

can't help but laugh everytime I see a black bear and it's way stronger than a regular bear
they're basically mini-bears irl, they run from everything and are scavengers

Even Oblivion got it right. Black bears are smaller and weaker than brown in the game.