Incline Butthurt Dungeon: Thac0's Ultimate Blobber List

[Dungeon Lord]

Someone's still playing parts of World of Xeen separately after 1992?

Yes. I play MM4 then MM5 then WOX then MM4 then MM5 then WOX then...

Btw:
"⚔ means disputed. There is discourse on whether the game is fun."
This is totally subjective! Do NOT put this onto the list, please.

 

[Thac0]

"⚔ means disputed. There is discourse on whether the game is fun."
This is totally subjective! Do NOT put this onto the list, please.

Did you not realise that the entire list is subjective?
If you make objective blobber lists you either get lists with 800+ entries which are ultimately useless for finding new games, or you find lists with only 10 entries, rehashing the same worn out classics which are useless for core gamers.
That is why this is a subjective list, on which blobbers stood the test of time, and are worth playing today.
It has objective characteristics in that it uses poll data at it's core and community feedback to fine trim it towards a large audience, but at the end of the day it will always be subjective.
I can change fun to good in that sentence, but it is mincing words with zero different meaning.

 

[duanth123]

Thac0

Dungeon Travelers 2 deserves a star and a sword.

It is unironically the best Japanese dungeon crawler outside of Wizardry/Elminage line of games, but there's a bunch of ecchi and many of the enemies are anthropomorphic fruit. Behold:

And a few late game maps, routed out:

Spoiler

And when the combat system is fully utilized:

Spoiler

Also, Infinite Adventures is not weeb, made by Amerifats, it just has shitty art; should be in classical section.

Further, you should include Rance VI, which qualifies for weeb, grid-based blobber and hey, is actually good:

Spoiler

As well as the the Generation Xth/Operation Abyss/Babel line, which are arguably decent:

Spoiler

Demon Gaze series is trash, Ray Gigant is unadulterated shit, Mary Skelter is too simple imo, plays like a spiritual JRPG for babbies.

No one liked Persona Q 2, not even a debate.



Finally, weeb section needs Labyrinth of Touhou 2, which is arguably too good to even be in that category, despite the aesthetics:

Spoiler

 

[Thac0]

duanth123
Star and Sword to DT2 granted, shame the series never got off the vita and there never was an english translation for DT 2-2

As for Infinite Adventures I use the classification this forum uses for JRPGs in general "if it remotely smells Japanese, it belongs in" Japanese or Weeb. I can sword it tho, or re-add that it is wannabe Japanese.

Given that Rance is the first literal porn game, and not just Ecchi, on the list I will add it with an 18+ tag or so. Any other tags?

I can add the Generation/X/Babel line with swords, I personally tried one of it and considered it garbage. Among Xperience inc worst. Maybe only add Babel with a sword? I heard it is the best.

I am currently keeping Mary Skelter on the list due to the power of pure favoritism, since it is the only other good blobber in the Etrian Odyssey school of blobbing. Take a good JRPG combat system and slap it on top of a blobber. I personally enjoy those, since while ADnD 1st edition combat is a good fit for blobbing it is far from the only way to make good combat.
Although I know of one other esteemed grognard who likes Mary Skelter, so for now their position is secure with a sword.

I planned on adding Labyrinth of Touhou 1 as soon as it gets a steam release in English in 4 days.


I can add a few Labyrinth of Touhou's now with stars, but you gotta tell me which ones can be patched to English.

 

[duanth123]

duanth123
Star and Sword to DT2 granted, shame the series never got off the vita and there never was an english translation for DT 2-2

As for Infinite Adventures I use the classification this forum uses for JRPGs in general "if it remotely smells Japanese, it belongs in" Japanese or Weeb. I can sword it tho, or readd that it is wannabe Japanese.

Given that Rance is the first literal porn game, and not just Ecchi, on the list I will add it with an 18+ tag or so. Any other tags?

I can add the Generation/X/Babel line with swords, I personally tried one of it and considered it garbage. Among Xperience inc worst. Maybe only add Babel with a sword? I heard it is the best.

I am currently keeping Mary Skelter on the list due to the power of pure favoritism, since it is the only other good blobber in the Etrian Odyssey school of blobbing. Take a good JRPG combat system and slap it on top of a blobber. I personally enjoy those, since while ADnD 1st edition combat is a good fit for blobbing it is far from the only way to make good combat.
Although I know of one other esteemed grognard who likes Mary Skelter, so for now their position is secure with a sword.

I planned on adding Labyrinth of Touhou 1 as soon as it gets a steam release in English in 4 days.


I can add a few Labyrinth of Touhou's now with stars, but you gotta tell me which ones can be patched to English.

Both LoT 1 & 2 have been translated, but LoT 1 is the more controversial of the two, due to grind, pacing issues, and overall looking like shit. It's really just a prototype for LoT 2.

Labyrinth of Touhou 2 has a community english translation patch that is 100% w/ no engrish, and easy to find online.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2

Yeah Rance VI with 18+ tag, don't include any other ecchi/porn dungeon crawlers. Rance is about the most that some newb/normal person reading your list could stomach due to its budget/quality generally outweighing the pure smut factor.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

No Ancients: Deathwatch?

EDIT: Apparently there was a sequel as well; Ancients 2: Approaching Evil.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

comprehensive list of blobbers worth playing:
wizardry 8

 

[Naharcito]

Interesting thread. I will follow it now. I only played Legend of Grimrock 1 & 2 and I enjoyed them a lot. Very good games.

The opening post really should link to the Return to Chaos remake for Windows of Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back. The main weakness of the first Legend of Grimrock is that it is perhaps too much of an homage to Dungeon Master. If you enjoyed LoG, you'll certainly appreciate the progenitor of the real-time blobber subgenre of CRPGs.

Is Grimoire really that good?

Grimoire is the Golden Baby of Incline.

Thanks for the recommendations. Grimoire looks based as hell.

 

[Rincewind]

Might & Magic X could be unplayable for many people now, however. Since its developers (Limbic) went belly-up and since its publisher (Ubisoft) doesn't give a shit, the game's servers are offline.

That means that since the game requires online authentication to play, certain critical things you have to do or have access to are locked out thus meaning you can't move forward in the game. It also means that DLC items such as the game's "relics" are no longer accessible, which removes one of the best aspects of the game.

Look into it before attempting to play.

Just checked, they simply delisted it on Steam... Well, you can still get the cracked version.

 

[Rincewind]

Also I am thinking about adding another symbol for games that can't be beaten without manual mapping. Would that be usefull information to add? Given that you need external ressources in either grid cartographer or actual graph paper to beat them.
Also perhaps another symbol indicating unusually high difficulty for the genre.
But I am a bit wary, because too much information is less information, and I do not want to overload the table with icons.

Dunno man, it depends on the person, really. Some people can hold the maps in their heads, I for one manually map everything, even games that have an automap (because you can't put annotations on most in-game automaps, etc).
Don't overthink it, just use a single star for the undisputed classics, and be done with it.

 

[Decado]

I'm trying to get into some of these Japanese blobbers but by God, their UIs are uniformly terrible. They all look like apps you'd use to buy contact lenses.

 

[Rincewind]

Okay, I still think this is a great list of good (mostly) old-school RPGs, but the more I think about the definition of a "blobber", the more convinced I am that it's just not a very useful type of classification at all.

To me, "blobbers" are basically Dungeon Master and its not-too-numerous clones, e.g. Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, or Legend of Grimrock. For a game to "feel" like a blobber to me, it just has to have that DM-style interface, strictly grid-based movement, everything happening in realtime and always in first person, emphasis on interacting with the environment, and heavy focus on puzzles and exploration. I would even dare to say that the combat-waltz is part of the experience too.

Another important consideration: how many of these old RPGs released before the 90s are not blobbers, really? Due to technical limitations, most of them were grid-based and featured some kind of first-person or top-down view where your whole party could move one "unit" at a time. Maybe you could split the party in some, but I think most of them would fit into the current definition of a "blobber". How is that useful? To me, it's about as useful as categorising games based on how much colour green they contain in their graphics, or something.

Now, for argument's sake, let's say you just lump all these games together in the "blobber" category. Then imagine the following conversation:

- Man, I've just completed Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder, I love blobbers! Can you recommend some other good blobbers to pick up next?
- Sure bro! There's the whole Gold Box and Bard's Tale series, then maybe have a look at Betrayal at Krondor.

So, if the above person was looking for that DM-like experience, he would be quite disappointed with these recommendations! The Gold Box games are primarily focused on turn-based, tactical combat; the fact that you traverse the locations in first-person view and the movement is grid-based is not the main defining characteristic of these games. I would say that Dungeon of Naheulbeuk is much closer in spirit to the Gold Box games than any DM-clone ever released; they're simply both tactical combat experiences primarily.

Next example, although Bard's Tale is grid based, it doesn't feel like a DM-clone. Therefore, maybe just call it "old-school, grid-based RPG with simple turn-based combat".

Finally, Betrayal at Krondor really doesn't belong to a list like this, and I'd argue neither of the non-grid-based games. Again, to me, one of the big "selling points" of these grid-based RPGs is that I can create maps for them, which I thoroughly enjoy doing. So no grid = not a blobber for me. Games like BoK simply just belong in the heavily story focused, general RPG category, neither the combat nor the exploration being that much of the defining aspects of the game. It's really a combination of many different parts, but I'd argue the story is the reason why most people would bother playing it till the end, and not because "look, I can move my party around in this weird flight-simulator-like interface as a *blob*, isn't that great?".

To sum up, I think your list is great, but it's really just a list of great old RPGs, or new RPGs that are oldschool in spirit. Personally, I'd go with a table instead of your current section based approach, with columns "Combat" (Realtime/Tactical TB/Simple TB), "Movement" (Grid-based/Free movement), and so on. Then everybody could apply whatever filters they want to find games fitting certain criteria, and the whole debate about what constitutes a "blobber" would be over (but then this would start to morph into a more general "best oldschool RPGs" list, but who cares).

 

[Rincewind]

Anyway, I've just re-read your recently updated list, and I have to say that your current categorisation is pretty much perfect, the list is very usable as it is. Congrats! Maybe I overcomplicated things in my previous post a bit, but clearly you're going for a similar subcategorisation that I had in mind (Wizardry-likes, MM-likes, Bard's Tale-likes, DM-clones disguised as "Realtime", etc).

One small thing to nitpick about still: many of the games listed under "Isometric Combat" do no actually use isometric perspective (e.g. BoK uses a 3D view, some other games use some top-down view that has nothing to do with isometric, etc). Maybe simply rename it to "Tactical Combat" (which always requires some kind of top-down view)?

Also, very few games do actually use isometric perspective, usually it's some for of axonometric view, but that's for another discussion... This image illustrates the differences quite nicely (isometic projection is basically a specialisation of the more generic class of axonometric projections).

 

[jackofshadows]

Might & Magic X could be unplayable for many people now, however. Since its developers (Limbic) went belly-up and since its publisher (Ubisoft) doesn't give a shit, the game's servers are offline.

That means that since the game requires online authentication to play, certain critical things you have to do or have access to are locked out thus meaning you can't move forward in the game. It also means that DLC items such as the game's "relics" are no longer accessible, which removes one of the best aspects of the game.

Look into it before attempting to play.

What about hacked uh (yar har har matey) versions? I have official on pinky demon laptop but i know i have blackbeard's treasured MMX somewhere on a geekstick.

As far as I know they work but player has to use stables to get to the second city after completing the first act.

 

[mondblut]

To me, "blobbers" are basically Dungeon Master

Of course, sir. The rest of the codex with promptly accomodate to whatever "blobbers" mean to you.

 

[mondblut]

Why is Might & Magic X "miscellaneous"? Why are Mordor/Demise "miscellaneous"?

Separating "classical" and "exploration" makes no sense. If by "classical" you mean a city menu and a dungeon underneath, half the list already belongs squarely to "exploration", including Wizardry 6 and 7, Grimoire, Brany Skeldaly, Dragon Wars and Faerghail. Even the fucking Bard's Tale to an extent.

Make separate section for single-character blobbers including Anvil of Dawn, Dungeon Hack and The Quest. When a game ticks every single box for a blobber, it doesn't matter all that much if it only has one portrait and two hand icons in the corner. Certainly less so than if movement is gridless or if combat plays out on a separate tactical screen. Most blobbers can be legit played with one character if you wish to.

Add Disciples of Steel and Order of the griffon to whatever section goldbox games are in. Add Legacy (the predecessor to The Quest) to whatever section Might & Magic is in.

Consider a section for part-time blobbers. Ultimas before 6, Warriors of the Eternal Sun, even Realmz had some blobber sections.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

I was trying to think of the names of a lot of other blobbers floating round in my memory and came across this thread; lots of unmentioned but applicable titles here.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/dungeon-master-clones-the-best-or-the-memorable.71337/

Abandoned Places 1 and 2 and Whales Voyage were the games I was thinking of, which aren't actually listed in the above.

 

[octavius]

- Man, I've just completed Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder, I love blobbers! Can you recommend some other good blobbers to pick up next?
- Sure bro! There's the whole Gold Box and Bard's Tale series, then maybe have a look at Betrayal at Krondor.

So, if the above person was looking for that DM-like experience, he would be quite disappointed with these recommendations!

That's why we divide blobbers into two main categories: Real Time Blobbers and Turn Based Blobbers, the former tracing its lineage to Dungeon Master, the other to Wizardry.
And then we have the "bastards": Gold Box games and Uukrul with top down combat instead of the classic abstract type of blobber combat, and games where your blob does not move stepwise on a grid (MM6-8, Wiz 8).

 

[dacencora]

I'm trying to get into some of these Japanese blobbers but by God, their UIs are uniformly terrible. They all look like apps you'd use to buy contact lenses.

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey Redux is probably the most well-polished one I’ve played so far. It’s got great art and great UI. The same applies for the original Shin Megami Tensei, but I haven’t played much of that one.

 

[Thac0]

Why is Might & Magic X "miscellaneous"? Why are Mordor/Demise "miscellaneous"?

Separating "classical" and "exploration" makes no sense. If by "classical" you mean a city menu and a dungeon underneath, half the list already belongs squarely to "exploration", including Wizardry 6 and 7, Grimoire, Brany Skeldaly, Dragon Wars and Faerghail. Even the fucking Bard's Tale to an extent.

Make separate section for single-character blobbers including Anvil of Dawn, Dungeon Hack and The Quest. When a game ticks every single box for a blobber, it doesn't matter all that much if it only has one portrait and two hand icons in the corner. Certainly less so than if movement is gridless or if combat plays out on a separate tactical screen. Most blobbers can be legit played with one character if you wish to.

Add Disciples of Steel and Order of the griffon to whatever section goldbox games are in. Add Legacy (the predecessor to The Quest) to whatever section Might & Magic is in.

Consider a section for part-time blobbers. Ultimas before 6, Warriors of the Eternal Sun, even Realmz had some blobber sections.

Damn, that is a lot of very valuable feedback.
Reduced Exploration to a subcategory for classical, the same way Bard's Tale currently is, called Might and Magic. The description of what Bard's Tale is is probably bullshit, since I played only a collective 3 hours of Bard's Tale or so. Requesting a better one.

I added a Solo subcategory under Misc again. I did not want to have a solo category while The Quest is the single best solo blobber, but I am satisfied with Anvil of Dawn as a solo blobber with a star to spearhead the subcategory. This eliminates rule 3, which prevented solo blobbers.
Added Legacy as Legacy by Redshift because damn that game is hard to find otherwise.
Added the rest because they got good reviews on the codex.

Sections for partial blobbers is an interesting idea, I have zero knowledge of those however besides early Ultima. If you give me a starting list I can do it.

ShaggyMoose KeighnMcDeath a lot of the games you guys recommend are really fucking obscure. I have no problem with adding a game that only 10 Grognards played, as long as all of those liked it. For your games I can't find enough positive opinions by searching the codex, do you want to double down on any of them?

 

[Gregz]

Also I am thinking about adding another symbol for games that can't be beaten without manual mapping. Would that be usefull information to add?

Yes.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

ShaggyMoose KeighnMcDeath a lot of the games you guys recommend are really fucking obscure. I have no problem with adding a game that only 10 Grognards played, as long as all of those liked it. For your games I can't find enough positive opinions by searching the codex, do you want to double down on any of them?

I wasn't sure whether you were going for quality or completeness. None of the games I listed made any serious impression on me so I won't push for them. Maybe others will have a different opinion.

 

[agris]

Thac0 in the OP, you’ve got some obvious misspellings. Preamble is written as preambel, and whether is written as wether.

 

[Casual Hero]

It's finally here! :D

 

[Casual Hero]

You prefer Isles of Terra to both Xeens? I haven't played any of the Xeen entries yet, but that is not an opinion that I have seen very often.

I do.
Isles of Terra is to WoX as Fallout is to Fallout 2.