Incline Butthurt Dungeon: Thac0's Ultimate Blobber List

[Kalarion]

The maps are restrictive, not open

Not true. Other than the gating mentioned below, you can wander around and stick your nose in far-too dangerous caves almost right away.

and there is no order of exploration

Also completely untrue. Until you unlock certain events in the game, entire sections are unreachable. They're gated and thus the order in which you explore the game determines whether or not you advance.

Thus, exploration is its main characteristic.

One loot cave per region with mildly difficult encounters does not an exploration game make. And it is not "almost right away", you get access to each cave at the same time you get access to their respective regions. That's not a sense of exploration, it's an ornament tacked on each region to make lawnmowing the map less of a chore.

You're correct about my second statement, I misspoke. There is no exploration, period, as you so helpfully demonstrate:

Until you unlock certain events in the game, entire sections are unreachable. They're gated...

So my saying there is no "order of exploration" is nonsensical. I will edit my post.

 

[Crispy]

You're emphasizing "an exploration game" game too much instead of what an exploration blobber would be and the point of the blobber categories themselves. If M&M X is not, as Thac0 described in his op, an exploration blobber RPG, then what is it?

- It's not a classic Wizardry-type blobber because it features a large open world

- It's obviously not a realtime blobber

- It's certainly not gridless

- It's not isometric in any way

- It's not Japanese

- It's not weeb

But it is, as I described, a blobber RPG that is almost entirely focused on exploration. You may not like the way it's gated, you may not like the way there are restrictions put on where you can go, but the entire point of the game is to reach areas that you have to work in order to unlock. In other words, you have to explore.

 

[Jermu]

weeb:

Wizardry: labyrinth of lost souls (ok quality)
Lost Child is shit
Vita has Dungeon Travelers 2: The Royal Library & The Monster Seal which is a good game

 

[Adenocaulon]

Thanks for the explanation Thac0, I misread your OP as a compilation rather than a curated list of good blobbers.

To that end, you group large amounts of games together to recommend, such as M&M1-5, and BT1-3. Are you confident that those are all good games?

There is a remake of BT 1-3 so I think it is ok that they are on the recommendations.

MM 1-2 and Wizardry 1-5 are better to be played on the best console versions with emulators because the graphics have aged better and they have soundrack.

Wizardry 6 looks better in snes version. The problem may be if you want to import your party to Wizardry 7. I wonder if I can edit a party in cosmic to copy my console characters?

I do not like that there are no character portraits in the ui/hud of the earlier games, even in BT remaster the ui is text based, not pictoric. After MM 3, 4-5 and Wizardry 6 the ui is pictoric, even though in some of that games is less informative so you have to open status window for details.

Some japanese Wizardry clones, even newer ones, are still dated in some aspects. Dark Spire uses text based UI. In many of these monster sprites are fixed with no animation (after Wizardry 6 and MM 2 there are animated monsters).

 

[octavius]

Thanks for the explanation Thac0, I misread your OP as a compilation rather than a curated list of good blobbers.

To that end, you group large amounts of games together to recommend, such as M&M1-5, and BT1-3. Are you confident that those are all good games?

They are good enough, IMO.

 

[agris]

Adenocaulon the existence, or not, of remakes in no way informs as to the quality of the game.

 

[Adenocaulon]

Mechanically some of these earlier games were as complete as more recent games. For example Dark Spire is more simple than Wizardry 1.

 

[curds]

May I suggest adding screenshots to the OP?

I think it's nice to have a visual for each game in this kind of thread.

 

[Gregz]

You’re missing a blobber that’s better than half of those

Swords and Sorcery - Underworld - Definitive Edition on Steam

Made by a Codexer no less!

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Aren't these gridless?





The Ravenloft series up to 4 party members?
Slayer & Deathkeep Solo and random dungeon seeds?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I know it appears that the Alternate Reality has a grid but it sure seems to move sort of like a gridless. Turns are 90 degrees though.




So uh? Grid nogrid 1.5 grid?
There was an attempt at remaking the series and finishing all 6-7 chapters.


https://www.crpgdev.com/

https://m.facebook.com/crpgdev

https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40927

https://www.crpgdev.com/arx.html

For more facts on AR check out
Kroah's AR Reverse Engineering

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/c64/575502-alternate-reality-the-dungeon

Remastered The Dungeon Music

http://www.eobet.com/alternate-reality/

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/2...e-creatorcoder-of-alternate-reality/#comments

 

[Rincewind]

Not a bad list so far, thanks for that! Couple of remarks:

• Fate: Gates of Dawn is one of the most highly regarded blobbers on the Amiga, maybe it should be included in the list?
• Legend of Faerghail was one of the better Amiga blobbers as well, and so was Knightmare.
• While Legends of Amberland was kind of "cute", it was a very basic and low-budget game, so I wouldn't include it in such an "ultimate" blobber list (I'd much rather include the above Amiga games instead).
  
• It's Ishar, not Ishtar.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Anyone recall the Fate 2 project (you'll probably need translate)
Every npc adventures like this.

Spoiler

 

[Thac0]

You’re missing a blobber that’s better than half of those

Swords and Sorcery - Underworld - Definitive Edition on Steam

Made by a Codexer no less!

It is in there, I put it under exploration due to the inspiration from Might and Magic.

May I suggest adding screenshots to the OP?

I think it's nice to have a visual for each game in this kind of thread.

Eventually, after everything is finished I want to sort them alphabetically and do some other stuff like linking Steam/GoG where appliccable. But in case a game gets knocked off the list due to too much negative feedback not yet.

agris
I did actually cut a few of the games from the big series, namely Might and Magic IX and Wizardry IV.
I did play a few from those series, and I usually played the one that is considered the worst. So I can assume that the other games are at least as good. From the big series I am only concerned about Might and Magic I+II and Wizardry II+III. But the historical significance gives them enough of a boost to include them anyway imo, since none of them are terrible.

Crispy
initially the categories were not supposed to have a value attached to them. If it is on the list it is good, no matter wether it is in exploration or misc. MMX landed in misc, since it does something to my knowledge completely unique. Slow and methodical turn based combat where you can target enemies on different tiles with ranged attacks and aoe spells. I personally think MMX is too slow to go into the exploration category, but since the exploration category was initially called Might and Magic in my drafts it could fit there aswell.
If Misc becomes more of a trash bin category I can move it, but currently most games in Misc are undisputed by quality, so I see no real reason to.

KeighnMcDeath good catch on the Ravenloft games, moving them.
Given that the pitch and gameplay videos of alternate reality confuses me I am putting it in Misc for now.

Also I think I will either make a dedicated category for solo dungeon crawlers or delete them entirely. Dungeon Hack, Deathkeep and Slayer do not feel up to the quality standards of the list. The Quest I played, it's ok, but a solo game can't really be a blobber by definition. Input on that?

 

[Thac0]

• Fate: Gates of Dawn is one of the most highly regarded blobbers on the Amiga, maybe it should be included in the list?

• Legend of Faerghail was one of the better Amiga blobbers as well, and so was Knightmare.

I didn't have an Amiga, I assume they all go in exploration?
I know that Fate is popular for the excessive size of the worldmap, and the rest looks similar.

While Legends of Amberland was kind of "cute", it was a very basic and low-budget game, so I wouldn't include it in such an "ultimate" blobber list (I'd much rather include the above Amiga games instead).

I will put it to disputed for now, I think codex opinions are tied on wether it is cute enough, or too basic. I like it personally.

 

[Rincewind]

• Fate: Gates of Dawn is one of the most highly regarded blobbers on the Amiga, maybe it should be included in the list?

• Legend of Faerghail was one of the better Amiga blobbers as well, and so was Knightmare.

I didn't have an Amiga, I assume they all go in exploration?
I know that Fate is popular for the excessive size of the worldmap, and the rest looks similar.

While Legends of Amberland was kind of "cute", it was a very basic and low-budget game, so I wouldn't include it in such an "ultimate" blobber list (I'd much rather include the above Amiga games instead).

I will put it to disputed for now, I think codex opinions are tied on wether it is cute enough, or too basic. I like it personally.

Fate belongs to Exploration, sure. Legend of Faerghail, however, would be best placed in Classical because it's pretty much a Bard's Tale clone.

Knightmare definitely needs to be moved to Realtime.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Hard to say, I mean aren't both Vaporum & Vaporum Lockdown games solo as well?

Death Bringer (a.k.a.Galdregons Domain) Is yet another obscure blobber type but very weird. I finished the c64 version and never got around to the ST or Amiga. The weapon breakage is a bitch. Plan accordingly.

 

[Grauken]

Mechanically some of these earlier games were as complete as more recent games. For example Dark Spire is more simple than Wizardry 1.

Uh, no it is not. Yes, your party is limited to only 4 members, but other than that it has more depth than Wizardry, it has actual puzzles and NPC interactions, skills. Combat is very similar to almost be a clone with some of its own peculiarities, but that's no surprise as Wizardry was the template after which Dark Spire was fashioned. Multi-classing works different than in Wizardry and its hard to say which is more complex, though Dark Spire allows you to develop useless characters easier if you don't spend your exp wisely, which isn't really the case for Wizardry

Dark Spire is more on the same level as Wiz 5 or 6

 

[Darth Canoli]

Also I think I will either make a dedicated category for solo dungeon crawlers or delete them entirely. Dungeon Hack, Deathkeep and Slayer do not feel up to the quality standards of the list. The Quest I played, it's ok, but a solo game can't really be a blobber by definition. Input on that?

I can't argue with this, if there is a single character "blobber-like" category, The Quest has to be included but they're not blobbers.
I like The Quest but the combat part really drags it down.

Assuming it's well designed:
TB party based combat >>> RT single character combat >> TB single character combat >= RT party based combat.

 

[Grauken]

My order would be more like this
TB party based combat >> RT party based combat >> RT single character combat >>>>>>>>>>>> TB single character combat

 

[Rincewind]

Death Bringer (a.k.a.Galdregons Domain) Is yet another obscure blobber type but very weird. I finished the c64 version and never got around to the ST or Amiga. The weapon breakage is a bitch. Plan accordingly.

Weird in a good way? Would you recommend it? I remember the CRPG Addict gave it a "meh" rating, but I'm strangely intrigued by these screenshots, plus I just love Amiga games.

And the box art kicks ass!

Spoiler

 

[Rincewind]

TB party based combat >> RT party based combat >> RT single character combat >>>>>>>>>>>> TB single character combat

Wait a minute, the TB single char combat in Age of Decadence is arguably a lot better than any RT single char combat (at least I enjoyed it a lot more).

 

[Grauken]

TB party based combat >> RT party based combat >> RT single character combat >>>>>>>>>>>> TB single character combat

Wait a minute, the TB single char combat in Age of Decadence is arguably a lot better than any RT single char combat (at least I enjoyed it a lot more).

I was talking about blobbers/dungeon crawlers

 

[Rincewind]

I was talking about blobbers/dungeon crawlers

Ok ok, my bad... then I agree

 

[Darth Canoli]

My order would be more like this
TB party based combat >> RT party based combat >> RT single character combat >>>>>>>>>>>> TB single character combat

It's a matter of taste i guess but if we speak generally and not just for blobbers, a good single character zelda-like combat is far superior to Grimrock combat.
Actually, the only games i played with enjoyable party-based RT combat were KotOR 1 & 2 but mostly it's because you only control one and the others hold their own (even if you switch from time to time because it's still better than the AI)