Borderlands - More like boring..er..lands.

[AlaCarcuss]

When will people realize that Korean MMOs on private servers, where you can indiscriminately murder twelve year old boys and watch them swear at you in all caps for 20 minutes, are 100x times more hilarious and enjoyable than this bullshit?

Ok so tell me. How much of it did you play? What character did you play and what level did you make?

I'd really like to know because I'm so fucking tired of morons wielding the hate stick on a game that they never actually played and/or only played for an hour or two (of a 30-50hr game), which especially seems to happen a lot here at the codex.

I didn't; I watched the trailers and a 30 minute demonstration of gameplay. The shooting action looks terminally boring and the only thing fun about it is dicking around with some friends.

List of other games that are fun to dick around with friends in:

- Left 4 Dead
- Quake
- Korean MMOs in private servers
- Alien Swarm
- Serious Sam
- Doom
etc.

I've seen nothing to show that this game is anything more than a boring shooter game. If its only appeal is coop beer-drinking then you have many other options, case closed.

Well then, I rest my case - exactly as I thought. Typical fucktard forming concrete opinions about a 50hr game without spending 1 second playing it.

Like I mentioned, I would have said the same thing before I played it, in fact I wasn't even sure it was worth the bandwidth to download it - now I'm glad it was. As a stylish shooter with co-op and light RPG elements + absolute gun-porn - it's pure fucking win.

The major review sites may suck hard and be subject to payola - but at least I'm pretty sure they spent some time in the game. For that I'd sooner take their opinion over yours anyday.

 

[vazquez595654]

I agree with AlaCarcuss. Borderlands is actually fun, and even with its simplicity, feels like a full game. Again, you have to give the game more than a couple hours because the beginning is slow. I would say learn the ropes in single player until about level 5 then jump online and start playing with people.

DefJam, if you like those games you mentioned, then I am pretty sure you will like Borderlands. If you get past the Console-ness you will realize the gun play is satisfying and allows for tactics, with the additional layer of the random loot and skill trees.

I thought the marketing for the game was stupid, but that doesn't negate the fact that they put some work into making this game fluid and fun with co-op. This coming from someone who hated to play co-op games and hates the idea of a "game" requiring co-op to be fun, but I will make an exception for Borderlands since playing online is free, fast, and easy.

 

[JrK]

The game also really changes from 1 or 2 players to 4 players. Especially when those three other players are your friends, and you can discuss tactics with them. The monsters really toughen up bigtime with the two extra players and they have much more loot. I'd only SP if you'd enjoy that sort of thing or need to get a feel for the game.

 

[Gerrard]

I like that the enemies actually use the gun/grenades/shield they drop, I had a heavy guy shooting at me with a helix rocket launcher.

 

[Tolknaz]

Other than nonexistant enemy variety, retarded save system and respawn this game seems to be a pretty fun timesink.

 

[Destroid]

Should have made a proper shooter with that cool random gun generator.

 

[Heresiarch]

I find the game to be very addictive too. The first 2 hours are very boring, but it does pick up after getting to the second main hub, and levelled up enough to pick up most of the useful talents.

I've been playing both this and Torchlight, but later on I dropped Torchlight entirely because Borderlands is just much more fun.

However, I think I'll drop this now too because the awesum Dragon Age is out now.

 

[foobie-bletch]

The loot system is pretty well done though.

Yeah, right. Over 9000 guns, starting with a "machine gun" that can't hit shit over 30 meters. Fantasy games get an excuse due to "magic" or something. Borderlands doesn't.

It uses a familiar concept of guns while completely misrepresenting how they work. A machinegun that looks more like an assault rifle, which can't hit over 30 meters. Animation of cocking a rifle after exiting the map, except that with a real gun, cycling the rifle would lose one bullet. I'm no guns nerd and I notice it after thinking about it for 30 seconds. This game has no immersion.

It makes some category of "combat rifle". Did they mean "battle rifle"? "Assault rifle"? I have no fucking idea what the have meant.

"NPCs" are indestructible quest dispensers. Activate the dispenser and get to select a quest from a menu.

The worst offense is different, though. It was marketed as having "RPG elements". There were no choices in the few hours I played the game. Besides whether to buy/sell some items to a literal item dispenser, whether to shoot an enemy or run past it, and what weapon to use for killing it.

Apparently "RPG elements" mean that the player gets to choose whether he wants to do +3 damage or upgrade his turret. And it gets awesome ratings in "game review" magazines.

The one thing I liked, though, was like the bus driver/trader sounded exactly like Sidorovich.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Yeah, right. Over 9000 guns, starting with a "machine gun" that can't hit shit over 30 meters. Fantasy games get an excuse due to "magic" or something. Borderlands doesn't.

It uses a familiar concept of guns while completely misrepresenting how they work. A machinegun that looks more like an assault rifle, which can't hit over 30 meters. Animation of cocking a rifle after exiting the map, except that with a real gun, cycling the rifle would lose one bullet. I'm no guns nerd and I notice it after thinking about it for 30 seconds. This game has no immersion.

It makes some category of "combat rifle". Did they mean "battle rifle"? "Assault rifle"? I have no fucking idea what the have meant.

Jesus Christ, it's a fucking game mate - not a combat simulator. It's also a fantasy game despite the use of guns.

The worst offense is different, though. It was marketed as having "RPG elements". There were no choices in the few hours I played the game. Besides whether to buy/sell some items to a literal item dispenser, whether to shoot an enemy or run past it, and what weapon to use for killing it.

Apparently "RPG elements" mean that the player gets to choose whether he wants to do +3 damage or upgrade his turret. And it gets awesome ratings in "game review" magazines.

Yep, you got it in one. That's exactly what they mean by "RPG elements". "Elements" being the operative word.

Look, it's not realistic and it's an RPG (very) lite. It's also a hella'va lotta fun - exactly how games are supposed to be. Go play ArmA if you want realism (if you can put up with the bugs).

 

[foobie-bletch]

> Jesus Christ, it's a fucking game mate - not a combat simulator.

Well a game where a "machine gun" can't hit shit over 30 meters. It doesn't have to be a "combat simulator" like ArmA.

> Look, it's not realistic and it's an RPG (very) lite.

Either something is an RPG or it isn't. Either the player is role-playing a character (at all) and it's a role-playing game, or it's not a role-playing game.

What they market it as is irrelevant.

> It's also a hella'va lotta fun - exactly how games are supposed to be.

Games are how they are supposed to be if you consider them fun?

 

[AlaCarcuss]

> Jesus Christ, it's a fucking game mate - not a combat simulator.

Well a game where a "machine gun" can't hit shit over 30 meters. It doesn't have to be a "combat simulator" like ArmA.

How the hell would you know what the Pandorians call a "machine gun" can or cannot hit on Pandora? See my point?

> Look, it's not realistic and it's an RPG (very) lite.

Either something is an RPG or it isn't. Either the player is role-playing a character (at all) and it's a role-playing game, or it's not a role-playing game.
What they market it as is irrelevant.

Who's rules are these - yours? That's bullshit. There are pleanty of cross-genre games and/or mostly one genre with a few "elements" of another. What would you call Spellforce for instance - an RPG or an RTS? What about Dues Ex - FPS or RPG or FPS with RPG elements?

> It's also a hella'va lotta fun - exactly how games are supposed to be.

Games are how they are supposed to be if you consider them fun?

Huh? Is that english? If it is I have no idea what it means

 

[foobie-bletch]

> How the hell would you know what the Pandorians call a "machine gun" can or cannot hit on Pandora? See my point?

I don't know. It calls it a "machine gun" which uses "bullets", and lets me fire through iron sights. The game uses lots of real-world terminology, like distinguishing between bolt-action, pump-action, semi-automatic and fully automatic.

The parts that differ are those that make it into a single-player MMORPG. Like the starting gun being worse than if made by Chechens, and a middle-game gun being better.

There can be some rationalizations about some Pandorians or whatever, but regardless it's pretty lame rationalization of single-player MMORPG absurdities.

> Who's rules are these - yours? That's bullshit.

To look no further than the genre name - "Role playing game". I happen to claim that for a game to be an RPG, a player has to be able to role-play a character. I also happen to claim that Borderlands doesn't let the player to role-play a character.

> What would you call Spellforce for instance

Never played it.

> What about Dues Ex - FPS or RPG or FPS with RPG elements?

While in DE choices mostly provide flavor text, it's an RPG. It happens to be an FPS too.

> Huh? Is that english? If it is I have no idea what it means

Let me rephrase, then: If you have fun playing some game, it's how it's supposed to be?

Do you consider the Majesty game series to be RPGs? The games have heroes which level-up, buy and use items, and complete quests.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

>There can be some rationalizations about some Pandorians or whatever, but regardless it's pretty lame rationalization of single-player MMORPG absurdities.

Well, it's not just single player, it's primary focus is co-op. Your reference to MMORPG is interesting as well - are they RPG's? (I think not).

> Who's rules are these - yours? That's bullshit.

To look no further than the genre name - "Role playing game". I happen to claim that for a game to be an RPG, a player has to be able to role-play a character. I also happen to claim that Borderlands doesn't let the player to role-play a character.

But that's just it - Borderlands is not an RPG, nor is it marketed as one, it's an FPS with "RPG Elements".

> What would you call Spellforce for instance

Never played it.

It (and it's sequal) is an RTS with "RPG Elements" Another example of this hybrid is DOWII.

> What about Dues Ex - FPS or RPG or FPS with RPG elements?

While in DE choices mostly provide flavor text, it's an RPG. It happens to be an FPS too.

Yep, I agree - and Borderlands is the reverse -> an FPS that happens to have a few RPG like features.

> Huh? Is that english? If it is I have no idea what it means

Let me rephrase, then: If you have fun playing some game, it's how it's supposed to be?

Sure, aren't games supposed to be fun?

Do you consider the Majesty game series to be RPGs? The games have heroes which level-up, buy and use items, and complete quests.

No. They are strategy/world building games with some "RPG Elements" Not all games need to fit fair and square into some industry defined box labeled FPS/RPG/RTS/4x whatever.

 

[Gerrard]

starting with a "machine gun" that can't hit shit over 30 meters

HERP DERP get a better one

 

[AlaCarcuss]

starting with a "machine gun" that can't hit shit over 30 meters

HERP DERP get a better one

Oooh, nice! Not realistic though :D

 

[Solohk]

It's a game where you can play as a character that can turn invisible for no reason, pick up a shotgun that shoots acid, and we're arguing about how the range of a machine gun differs from real life?

K.

 

[foobie-bletch]

> But that's just it - Borderlands is not an RPG, nor is it marketed as
> one, it's an FPS with "RPG Elements".
> Yep, I agree - and Borderlands is the reverse -> an FPS that
> happens to have a few RPG like features.

Okay, let's compare RPGs to water.

In the nineties there was pure water for sale. Then there was water mixed with sewage. Now they're selling sewage with "water elements". WTF is a "water element", just like an "RPG element"?

 

[Sceptic]

Raise dead.

I'm thinking of not removing this from inventory but I wanted to get the hivemind's opinion first. As with most games lately the hivemind seems to suffer from schizophrenia. This thread fluctuates from "it's shit" to "good for what it is" to "great in coop" to "best gaem evar!!11" (ok I made up the last one). So can I get a concensus here? I'm sure it sucks as an RPG but how about as an FPS with RPG elements? (let's not even get into the action-RPG argument please) Are the quests fun? is the shooting fun? is it worth "demoing"? Vast majority of earlier posts were were one-liners without describing anything of the game.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Its OK if you can bear the fact that, because damage is scaled by level, there is absolutely no fun playing more then a few levels outside of your level range for the entire game. Area design is kind of bland for a lot of the game, but it has a few good points. Online play is HORRIBLY implemented (can't even kick griefers out of your own fucking game), I would not play online unless you have friends. Also, I was not joking when I said:

Borderlands: 1,000,000 guns, 3 enemies.

so if fighting the same bandits for most of the game with them slowly leveling alongside you sounds boring, then don't try it. There is a very little variety within the bandits (big/small/normal and melee/shooty) but it will never really change.

Overall, worth not removing from an inventory.


As for gun realism... if guns were realistic, every game would have one useful gun: the shotgun. Real life shotguns have effective ranges around 100-200 feet, if that were reflected in game there would be absolutely nothing else worthwhile. So stop bitching about unrealistic depictions of guns. Besides, pretty much any gun you can find with some high accuracies eventually *lovingly pets his scoped shotgun-pistol*.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's a game where you can play as a character that can turn invisible for no reason, pick up a shotgun that shoots acid, and we're arguing about how the range of a machine gun differs from real life?

K.

I have lvl 30 weapons that aren't as good. Then again, Masher revolvers > all

oh, and this baby

Borderlands: 1,000,000 guns, 3 enemies.

http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Enemies

More than 3, bro. As for not being able to hurt higher level enemies, thats not true. Criticals help a lot. I can take strong enemies by aiming at their head, using grenades, etc. I killed Scar when underleveled by waiting until he opened his mouth and shooting inside it for massive damage. Took two tries.

I'm thinking of not removing this from inventory but I wanted to get the hivemind's opinion first. As with most games lately the hivemind seems to suffer from schizophrenia. This thread fluctuates from "it's shit" to "good for what it is" to "great in coop" to "best gaem evar!!11" (ok I made up the last one). So can I get a concensus here? I'm sure it sucks as an RPG but how about as an FPS with RPG elements? (let's not even get into the action-RPG argument please) Are the quests fun? is the shooting fun? is it worth "demoing"? Vast majority of earlier posts were were one-liners without describing anything of the game.

I'd say it's definitely worth it. You shouldn't be expecting more "rpg" than skill levels and diablo-loot. The copy I didn't remove from inventory lets you play with other people, too.

The quests are standard "go there, push button", "go there, kill X". But they are very humorous, and you can take more than one quest at a time (so you don't need to go back and forth if you don't want to, just go and do all quests available on the area at once).

Okay, let's compare RPGs to water.

In the nineties there was pure water for sale. Then there was water mixed with sewage. Now they're selling sewage with "water elements". WTF is a "water element", just like an "RPG element"?

what

 

[Gerrard]

I have lvl 30 weapons that aren't as good. Then again, Masher revolvers > all

My post is now very ironic, because 40 levels later I still haven't found a machine gun that would compare to this in all aspects, they either have shit accuracy, no scope, or low damage.
This one was truly glorious.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I find myself playing this occasionally, enough that I pirated all the DLC too. All I can figure is the MMO feel of the game scratches my MMO itch without costing $15 a month. If/when they do a big sale on it on Steam I very well may go legit, or in a year when they release a super duper game of the year edition with all the DLC bundled.

The gun variety is by far the best part of the game though. Not only just better stats, but the feel of them can change fairly dramatically. That aspect is surprisingly well done, though rocket launchers seem the most useless.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

More than 3, bro.

Yeah, but you spend 90% of your time fighting the bandits with most of the rest being the mechasuited humans and a few aliens at the end game. Everything else is pretty much just shit you run over with your car while going from point A to point B.

EDIT: checking my kills:
Human: 1566
Skag: 223
Spiderant: 123
Rakk: 98
Guardian: 48

Granted, Human includes everything from Big human with axe to Small human with shotgun to Mech human with shield and gun, but I think the point is clear. Enemy variety is certainly nowhere near a game that is trying to be the FPS version of diablo.

As for not being able to hurt higher level enemies, thats not true. Criticals help a lot. I can take strong enemies by aiming at their head, using grenades, etc. I killed Scar when underleveled by waiting until he opened his mouth and shooting inside it for massive damage. Took two tries.

Obviously you can to some extent, but it makes it stupid when your bullets magically start doing 1 damage each because something is 7-8 levels above you or whatever. Basically if you want to kill groups of enemies more then 5 levels above you, go back and level grind because otherwise its just retarded.

And grenades are fucking worthless. Totally completely fucking worthless. *throws highest level of grenades at enemy* lol a single bullet does more damage.

As for ridiculous gunporn showmanship:

Which actually fires two bullets per shot. Ridiculous accuracy and range when you add in your skill bonuses. Yet if you fire it at an enemy just a few levels outside of the acceptable range, it still does 1 fucking damage. Bad game design is bad.

Another laughably bad example of the level scaling: enemies more then a few levels over you KILL YOUR VEHICLE WHEN YOU TRY TO RUN OVER THEM WTF IS THIS SHIT?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Rocket launchers have wacko hit detection. Aiming at the ground near the enemy is necessary for them to hit at all. they are quite nice against vehicles too, if you aren't good with sniper rifles.

Obviously you can to some extent, but it makes it stupid when your bullets magically start doing 1 damage each because something is 7-8 levels above you or whatever. Basically if you want to kill groups of enemies more then 5 levels above you, go back and level grind because otherwise its just retarded.

Unless you're actively trying to rush the game and not doing any quests other than the ones that advance the plot, you won't ever be in a situation where enemies are 7-8 levels above you, thus unkillable. Doing some quests, maybe 5 levels above you, hard but certainly doable.

And grenades are fucking worthless. Totally completely fucking worthless. *throws highest level of grenades at enemy* lol a single bullet does more damage.

HERP DERP get a better one

Higher damage doesn't mean better one, btw. I usually use grenades a few levels under my own because, albeit weak in power, they have a good effect. Level 15 Bouncing Betty > level 20 rubberized for example. I was saved more than once by grenade spamming, so they aren't worthless.

Yet if you fire it at an enemy just a few levels outside of the acceptable range, it still does 1 fucking damage. Bad game design is bad.

Flat out LIE. FFS

Another laughably bad example of the level scaling: enemies more then a few levels over you KILL YOUR VEHICLE WHEN YOU TRY TO RUN OVER THEM WTF IS THIS SHIT?

Stop the lies, start the truths.

There's no scratch damage on the game, they attacked your vehicle. In fact, you can one-shot enemy vehicles by shooting at their engines, this also works against you. Happened to me before (decided not to care about spiderlings on a certain place and rushed by, only for them to come out full force just as I was passing by).

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Obviously you can to some extent, but it makes it stupid when your bullets magically start doing 1 damage each because something is 7-8 levels above you or whatever. Basically if you want to kill groups of enemies more then 5 levels above you, go back and level grind because otherwise its just retarded.

Unless you're actively trying to rush the game and not doing any quests other than the ones that advance the plot, you won't ever be in a situation where enemies are 7-8 levels above you, thus unkillable. Doing some quests, maybe 5 levels above you, hard but certainly doable.

Forced grinding = good thing? lolwut?

I fail to see the logic of how guns should start doing more damage because you leveled up more. In diablo you could easily beat enemies much stronger then you if you had good player and character skill. In borderlands, replace 'skill' with 'level grinding'.

And grenades are fucking worthless. Totally completely fucking worthless. *throws highest level of grenades at enemy* lol a single bullet does more damage.

HERP DERP get a better one

My level 40 MIRV grenade does 111 damage and might hit them more then once if it works out well.

My level 25 gun does 90 x 2 damage per shot, can crit the head for massive damage, and can fire 12 shots a second.

Yet if you fire it at an enemy just a few levels outside of the acceptable range, it still does 1 fucking damage. Bad game design is bad.

Flat out LIE. FFS

Close enough for most of the game. Fine, 10 damage on a critical. Against the random badass enemies, that might dent their health by 10% with an entire clip.

Another laughably bad example of the level scaling: enemies more then a few levels over you KILL YOUR VEHICLE WHEN YOU TRY TO RUN OVER THEM WTF IS THIS SHIT?

Stop the lies, start the truths.

There's no scratch damage on the game, they attacked your vehicle. In fact, you can one-shot enemy vehicles by shooting at their engines, this also works against you. Happened to me before (decided not to care about spiderlings on a certain place and rushed by, only for them to come out full force just as I was passing by).

Nope, absolutely true. Just ran over some random bugs that were 7 levels over me. They only deal about 200 damage with their attacks to my vehicle (1k health), but running them over made it blow up instantly. Its really annoying when you run over 5 enemies in a group, then explode on the last one's face because you didn't mouse over and find out that one was a badass.