Bethesda's Impact on RPGs

[Mogar]

ITT: We discuss the (adverse) fallout from Bethesda's mega hits on modern/future RPGs.

 

[Crispy]

In before WWIII.

 

[BonziBUDDY]

NO.

 

[Occasionally Fatal]

i think you need to prove me wrong first.

 

[racofer]

ITT: We discuss the (adverse) fallout from Bethesda's mega hits on modern/future RPGs.

I don't believe you fully understand the meaning of the word.

 

[Kavax]

Fallout 3 will have a good impact on the industry.

Ok, before you reply, read the entire argument.

First of all, there is no denying these facts:

- Fallout 3 will get very good reviews, and possibly some GOTY awards.
- Fallout 3 will make a lot of money, enough to make a sequel.

Keeping that in mind, also note that:

- Fallout 3 has dialog trees, and skill checks.
- Fallout 3 has Good/Evil alignments.
- Fallout 3 has a low fantasy setting.
- Fallout 3 has more than one ending.

A game with dialogs, choices, no magic, and a unique setting gets good reviews, and makes enough money for a sequel. I think you will all agree that Bethesda has some sort of impact on the RPG industry and how RPG's are made, and Fallout 3 will surely influence other games that are in development.

SO, what's the end result? Well there are positives and negatives..

Positive: We see more games with dialog trees, skill checks, good/evil alignments, and all that other stuff that we here on the Codex cherish so much.

Negative: One of our most beloved series had to be defiled to do it.

Let's face it, TB and Iso aren't coming back any time soon, but dialog trees, and C&C are timeless gameplay features that can never really become outdated. Bethesda has the power to make these features viable once more. If the Fallout name has to be sacrificed in the process, then that is only fair.

I dare one of you to prove me wrong.

You could say that about some Bioware games too, and the Codex ain't any happier because of them. Just because a game has these elements doesn't mean that it becomes part of the cool RPG club. These features must be well done before that.

 

[Mogar]

Pros: More dialogue trees; C&C, no matter how rudimentary; hopefully, its success in Japan will force JRPG developers to change up a formula that hasn't changed in 20 years

Cons: More sandbox games like Oblivion (remember people, we're discussing both ]Oblivion and Fallout 3); Bethesda makes more games; dialog loses its quality and importance; lifeless characters become the norm; RPGs become even more generic

 

[ArcturusXIV]

I think just the fact that Bethesda aspire to be something more, even if they fail, will encourage other developers to experiment more and come up with new ideas. Their games have some fairly in-depth ideas, such as the alchemy system in Oblivion, or the skill checks in Fallout, and I think this could potentially be a good thing, because it will prove to other developers that these things do, indeed, sell.

 

[asper]

Why is everyone talking about Oblivion and FO3?

Let's distinguish between pre-Morrowind and post-Morrowind Bethesda. That's when the whole team got changed (or was it after Morrowind?)

The point is that none of the people who made the older games are working there now. Arena, and especially Daggerfall, were genuinely innovative games. You might like them or not (and it are very flawed games), but really new things were tried and envelopes were pushed, and you cannot say that about more than a dozen or so games. I'm not aware of any influence they might have had on gaming though (are there any Daggerfall-clones?)

Oh, and the modern bullcrap is not even worth discussing.

 

[Jim Cojones]

- Fallout 3 has dialog trees, and skill checks.
- Fallout 3 has Good/Evil alignments.
- Fallout 3 has a low fantasy setting.
- Fallout 3 has more than one ending.

KOTOR was a also a pretty huge success on the consoles, it had all the above, more or less, yet that didn't stop Bioware dumbing down it all down futher for Mass Effect. It also didn't encourage Bethesda to sort Oblivion out. It didn't really go on to inspire anything else either.

Bethesda will look at the FO3 feedback and realise that all the XBOX kids cared about, after all that hard work, was teh nuclear catapult and teh slow mo gore. Thus FO4 will likely be even shallower, much like Obliv was to MW.

I dare one of you to prove me wrong.

 

[Mogar]

Why is everyone talking about Oblivion and FO3?

Let's distinguish between pre-Morrowind and post-Morrowind Bethesda. That's when the whole team got changed (or was it after Morrowind?)

The point is that none of the people who made the older games are working there now. Arena, and especially Daggerfall, were genuinely innovative games. You might like them or not (and it are very flawed games), but really new things were tried and envelopes were pushed, and you cannot say that about more than a dozen or so games. I'm not aware of any influence they might have had on gaming though (are there any Daggerfall-clones?)

Oh, and the modern bullcrap is not even worth discussing.

Yeah, the new Bethesda basically raped the old Bethesda's unique vision of The Elder Scrolls world. Thanks alot, Todd.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Why is everyone talking about Oblivion and FO3?

Let's distinguish between pre-Morrowind and post-Morrowind Bethesda. That's when the whole team got changed (or was it after Morrowind?)

The point is that none of the people who made the older games are working there now. Arena, and especially Daggerfall, were genuinely innovative games. You might like them or not (and it are very flawed games), but really new things were tried and envelopes were pushed, and you cannot say that about more than a dozen or so games. I'm not aware of any influence they might have had on gaming though (are there any Daggerfall-clones?)

Oh, and the modern bullcrap is not even worth discussing.

Yeah, the new Bethesda basically raped the old Bethesda's unique vision of The Elder Scrolls world. Thanks alot, Todd.

I really need to try out Daggerfall. I heard it was buggy as all hell, and an exercise in sadomasochism.

 

[Andhaira]

Morrowind contains the BEST of the old bethesda games (arena, daggerfall, battlespire). Play that andyou have played htebest beth has to ofer.

Though if you lpay fallout 3 as a simple fps shooter with rpg elements, I hear its quite good. (I havent played it though)

 

[Mogar]

Why is everyone talking about Oblivion and FO3?

Let's distinguish between pre-Morrowind and post-Morrowind Bethesda. That's when the whole team got changed (or was it after Morrowind?)

The point is that none of the people who made the older games are working there now. Arena, and especially Daggerfall, were genuinely innovative games. You might like them or not (and it are very flawed games), but really new things were tried and envelopes were pushed, and you cannot say that about more than a dozen or so games. I'm not aware of any influence they might have had on gaming though (are there any Daggerfall-clones?)

Oh, and the modern bullcrap is not even worth discussing.

Yeah, the new Bethesda basically raped the old Bethesda's unique vision of The Elder Scrolls world. Thanks alot, Todd.

I really need to try out Daggerfall. I heard it was buggy as all hell, and an exercise in sadomasochism.

Lets just say it hasn't aged well. For its time, it was a great RPG and ahead of its time. Here, if you want to download it, you can find it here:

http://www.squakenet.com/computer_games ... Daggerfall

or here:

http://www.fileplanet.com/41080/0/secti ... Daggerfall

(The second link contains the XP version, but you have to register)

And heres a video (damn, tried to embed it, wouldn't work):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMIfqH3GNW8

Really, the music, despite its low quality, is much better then later TES games.[/code]

 

[Liberal]

No serious impact whatsoever. RPG studios will continue releasing games that they are best at, just as they have been all this time. Maybe some superficial tendencies will/have arise(d), but those may actually be beneficial, as long as the game isn't a dumb FPS like Obiviout.

 

[Liberal]

For its time, it was a great RPG and ahead of its time

Yes, especially the graphics.

 

[Mogar]

Another video, this one of Uriel Septim VII. Remember him, before his awesomness was destroyed, well here he is in Daggerfall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niU1bRqxrIU

You see, that's how you do an intro to a TES game. Not the gayass Morrowind/Oblivion way.

 

[Liberal]

Bah, Daggerfall has no plot. One stupid movie doesn't make one! [/Andhaira]

 

[Mogar]

Bah, Daggerfall has no plot. One stupid movie doesn't make one! [/Andhaira]

Agreed, it had too much freedom. Some linearity is required for a good story. Now TES Redguard, despite not being an RPG, had an excellent storyline.

 

[Haris]

Only game i ever played longer than 1 week was daggerfall. I guess with never games it suposed to get boring after 1 week or you wont buy new games.

 

[Forest Dweller]

I dare one of you to prove me wrong.

I dare you to stop copying your posts wholesale.

That said, you are probably right.

 

[aries202]

I agree - the intro to Daggerfall is one of the best, if not the best intro into a game I have ever seen in the 10-12 years I have played computer games.

I tried the demo once. Good game, but the inventory and the user interface for the merchants looked cluttered.

Also, I have found that I am not that into sandbox games; I have no problems with other people who are, though...

edit:

I think we will see more sandbox games, though. I also think we will see skill checks be it via percentages,, diece rolls or points (STR requirements for instance) in games that are not (tradional) rpgs like fps or shooter games. Some choice and consequence and possibly a branching story we will also see in some shooter games, would be my guess - as of today.

 

[Suchy]

Bah, Daggerfall has no plot. One stupid movie doesn't make one! [/Andhaira]

Agreed, it had too much freedom. Some linearity is required for a good story. Now TES Redguard, despite not being an RPG, had an excellent storyline.

And "dialogues" were worse than in Oblivion!
I totally don't get all that praise around Daggerfall. It had cool character sheet, stats&skills, but extremely dull content.

Morrowind was actually the best thing Bethesda ever showed, even though as usual it had terrible NPCs and dialogue.

 

[Mogar]

Bah, Daggerfall has no plot. One stupid movie doesn't make one! [/Andhaira]

Agreed, it had too much freedom. Some linearity is required for a good story. Now TES Redguard, despite not being an RPG, had an excellent storyline.

And "dialogues" were worse than in Oblivion!
I totally don't get all that praise around Daggerfall. It had cool character sheet, stats&skills, but extremely dull content.

Morrowind was actually the best thing Bethesda ever showed, even though as usual it had terrible NPCs and dialogue.

Well, I did say the game has not aged well, and I meant it. Back in the day, though, it was a pretty cool game.

 

[Ogg]

Non combat skills (climbing, etiquette...) + random 3D dungeons + 3D automap + very complete character sheet + nude PC !!!!

That somehow compensates for the defaults.