Torment Beamdog's Planescape: Torment Enhanced Edition

[Naraya]

12) Improved Pathfinding - all you need to do is to edit the torment.ini file in the game directory and change the appropriate line. Beamdog's version might be better

Might be better? The improvement is as a plain as day for those who aren't blinded by their buttmadness (I noticed it just in the vid and aVENGER confirmed right here in this thread). PS:T had the worst pathing routine of any IE RPG; worse even than the original but final-patch BG. Common knowledge, that. Increasing search nodes to max in torment.ini didn't suddenly bring it to BG2 lvls, let alone SoD lvls. Common knowledge, too.

Can confirm, I have path search nodes=32000 and pathing is still cringeworthy.

 

[Lilura]

Can confirm, I have path search nodes=32000 and pathing is still cringeworthy.

Proof is you can go into baldur.ini and change path search nodes to 400,000 and it's still a far cry from BG2 400,000. It's as plain as day.

4) Combat log available - that would make sense if combat wasn't awful in P:T and if it was turn-based. But since it is awful and since it is real time with pause and everything goes very fast (and there are often groups of enemies) it's just a pointless bonus.

So you'd rather globs of unreadable, overlapping text fading out - even when you pause - over your clusterfucks instead of a combat log because PS:T combat sux anyway?

And only turn-based RPGs should have combat logs? You're a fucking idiot.

 

[existential_vacuum]

4) Combat log available - that would make sense if combat wasn't awful in P:T and if it was turn-based. But since it is awful and since it is real time with pause and everything goes very fast (and there are often groups of enemies) it's just a pointless bonus.

So you'd rather globs of unreadable, overlapping text fading out - even when you pause - over your clusterfucks instead of a combat log because PS:T combat sux anyway?

Even though I'm going to agree that combat log is a good addition, I kinda fail to understand, what is the problem with how it was? I had damage pop-ups only and that's it, saw no reason in anything else (and that wasn't due to combat being okayish). PS:T combat is so easy that there simply was no need for a log.

 

[schru]

Regarding the zooming feature, shouldn't the default level be the same as in the original game, but with a little extra space visible on the sides when using wide-screen resolutions? Wasn't the point of bringing the perspective a little closer to the ground, as compared to Baldur's Gate, to display the art work in more detail and possibly to immerse the player more in the interior spaces? It seems to me like using a more zoomed-out perspective like all the Enhanced Editions do goes against the original intent.

By the way, using the gdVoodoo wrapper with its CRT screen filter creates a reasonably faithful result on an LCD, with the picture here rendered at 1400x1050 (pictures taken with a camera because I couldn't capture screenshots when using the wrapper, so there's a bit of a glare that makes brighter areas less distinct than they really are, and it's a phone camera):

Spoiler

I think limiting the zoom to the original perspective would be optimal, and an optional CRT filter of this or better sort would be the best way to deal with stretching and blurring at higher resolutions on LCDs.

 

[passerby]

I was very sceptical of the Torment EE given Beamdogs track record and while I may be proven wrong after release, I've changed my mind and I think they've done a good job with it.

The UI use very faithul hires remakes of the original assets unlike BG one that changes aesthetics for no reason.

There are two zoom scallers to chose with filtering and without, I doubt that your display or windows scaller do any better job than the one with filtering.
So complains about resolutions doesn't make sense, since zooming in game is more convenient, than having to set non native resolution for the same effect.

Porting to their engine fork gave some quality of life improvements, more platforms, but also will make eventual future modding of the game much more feasible ( fleshing out the late pars of the game, encounter design and AI scripting, etc. ).
So while they've played it safe and missed opportunity with MCA, I hope they'll release all original design docs and maybe some moders will make use of it now.

What puzzles me the most, is how it was OK to give money to Hasbro on GOG for no work at all, but now when Beamdog gets some tiny cut for some actuall work it's better to pirate it...
The price ? You all have original on GOG already, don't need it don't buy it. You can also wait, sooner than later you'll be able to get complete IE games EE pack for less than 20$.

The only complaint I'd still have to Beamdog, is that they should include original versions of all IE games, both on GOG and STEAM.
But it's possible that it's not Beamdog's fault... GOG can have some exlusivity deal on the original versions.
The only explanation to why they weren't released on STEAM, before Enchanced Editions imo.

aVENGER Played safe, but good job imo.

 

[hell bovine]

12) Improved Pathfinding - all you need to do is to edit the torment.ini file in the game directory and change the appropriate line. Beamdog's version might be better

Might be better? The improvement is as a plain as day for those who aren't blinded by their buttmadness (I noticed it just in the vid and aVENGER confirmed right here in this thread). PS:T had the worst pathing routine of any IE RPG; worse even than the original but final-patch BG [1]. Common knowledge, that. Increasing search nodes to max in torment.ini didn't suddenly bring it to BG2 lvls, let alone SoD lvls.

Seconded. Increasing the nodes never did much in IE games for me, but at least BG1 had the play-in-Bg2 mods like TuTu as an option.

PS. It's annoying that pathfinding gets so little attention from developers in cRPGs, even nowadays. Watching your party get stuck on each other is just not fun.

 

[Goral]

Might be better?

Yeah, "might" because I've never played any Beamdog games and don't know how much it improved. I never even bothered to download any products of this parasitic company because I don't like Bioware games (including Baldur's Gate), Planescape: Torment is a different matter though. And I've bolded this one for a reason, read with comprehension.

As for the combat log, combat in P:T is too primitive to be useful and you have all the information you need anyway. Nonetheless, that's why I said that there are 6-10 useful additions and I've bolded only 6 taking into account that additions like these some people might find useful.

 

[passerby]

To continue playing the Devil's advocate...

Some time ago, someone registered Black Isle Studios, used original logo and was trying to crowdfund "V13 project" with it.

So formally, both Black Isle Studios and Bioware are trademarks currently registered by other companies that even still use the same graphical designs.
So removing them from the EE releases, as lame as it is, is sadly safe and reasonable from legal point of view, to avoid potential lawsuits.

When Bethesda was releasing original Fallouts, the new "Black Isle Studios" didn't exist yet.

 

[Sigourn]

So you'd rather globs of unreadable, overlapping text fading out - even when you pause - over your clusterfucks instead of a combat log because PS:T combat sux anyway?

Amen. PS:T's combat was shit, and it didn't help that numbers kept flying over the screen. It was as chaotic as it could be. The only way it would have been worse is if the status and inventory screens worked in real time.

At least the combat log will give the game some sorely needed semblance of order. Also, Goral's edited list is all retarded.

Especially the double standard of it:

- 28) Heal on rest option - cheat mode which encourages to use cheesy tactics
- 29) Max HP on level up - Qwinn's patch

So Max HP on level up isn't cheat mode already?

The only truly pointless features are the Achievements and Steam trading cards. Everything else is an improvement, and most of those things are optional, so they will come in handy for other people.

 

[Goral]

Especially the double standard of it:

- 28) Heal on rest option - cheat mode which encourages to use cheesy tactics
- 29) Max HP on level up - Qwinn's patch

Yes, because the amount of HP you get is random during first 10 levels in vanilla so people were loading until they got the highest amount anyway. So as a fighter you could get less HP than a mage if you were unlucky and didn't load the game which is ridiculous (fighters could get 1-10 HP, mages 1-4, thieves 1-6 until level 10).

 

[Gragt]

grammar fixes

Between this and ME:A's prescriptivist companion, the prescriptivist agenda is being heavily promoted in recent RPGs. The ultimate culmination and logical conclusion of this is a game where "OMG I'M A GRAMMAR NERD" and you run around shooting linguists and people who don't follow your personal style guide, while being aded by a 60-year old English teacher who also moonlighted as a copy editor.

Everybody likes a cunning linguist.

 

[Sigourn]

Yes, because the amount of HP you get is random during first 10 levels in vanilla so people were loading until they got the highest amount anyway. So as a fighter you could get less HP than a mage if you were unlucky and didn't load the game which is ridiculous (fighters could get 1-10 HP, mages 1-4, thieves 1-6 until level 10).

Deal with it like the cool dudes do.

 

[Lilura]

Yes, because the amount of HP you get is random during first 10 levels in vanilla so people were loading until they got the highest amount anyway.

Lame-os like you, anyway.

So as a fighter you could get less HP than a mage if you were unlucky and didn't load the game which is ridiculous (fighters could get 1-10 HP, mages 1-4, thieves 1-6 until level 10).

Those are AD&D rules as employed in the original PS:T. Faux purist exposed.

 

[Gunnar]

The combat log is not needed precisely for the reason that combat is not the focus of the game, and just like the searchable journal, highlight TAB function and many other additions only serves to hurt the design and make the game easier than intended. (I think TTON was really hurt by these things as well) Gorals list is spot on.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

The combat log is not needed precisely for the reason that combat is not the focus of the game, and just like the searchable journal, highlight TAB function and many other additions only serves to hurt the design and make the game easier than intended. (I think TTON was really hurt by these things as well) Gorals list is spot on.

Hmm. I don't see TAB highlighting making it easier right now. TAB highlighting in a game like Lords of Xulima, where the idea is to pixel hunt very small objects like rocks, sacks, etc., that may contain loot, would make that game easier and ruin the mechanic. So far in PS:T:EE, TAB highlightihng just makes sure you get to see the various '?' items that have text descriptions, some of which are easily missable (like the tracks in the first room of the game.)

Searchable journal. Well, no comment on that so far. If the game challenge is meant to be increased due to limited implementation of the journal, that's fine. But even in Morrowind you could search the journal after the Tribunal expansion was released, to mostly great affect.

A combat log is of no real importance to me one way or the other. I like that it's there, though, just to occasionally check a damage roll or see what exactly happened. A log is more useful in a game like NWN where your companions are firing spells without your input and you'd like to see what happened more closely.

 

[Goral]

I don't see TAB highlighting making it easier right now.

As t said:

Highlighting objects will break quests as the game has been developed with no highlighting in mind - see stash quest in buried village.

But that's a quest one of many, e.g. there was also decanter of endless water quest and other.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

As t said:

But that's a quest one of many, e.g. there was also decanter of endless water quest and other.

Ideally any quest-related object wouldn't highlight. I don't like that it will spoil a quest-specific location like that, either. But for the rest of the game it is an improvement, IMO.

 

[Gunnar]

The combat log is not needed precisely for the reason that combat is not the focus of the game, and just like the searchable journal, highlight TAB function and many other additions only serves to hurt the design and make the game easier than intended. (I think TTON was really hurt by these things as well) Gorals list is spot on.

Hmm. I don't see TAB highlighting making it easier right now. TAB highlighting in a game like Lords of Xulima, where the idea is to pixel hunt very small objects like rocks, sacks, etc., that may contain loot, would make that game easier and ruin the mechanic. So far in PS:T:EE, TAB highlightihng just makes sure you get to see the various '?' items that have text descriptions, some of which are easily missable (like the tracks in the first room of the game.)

It's supposed to be missable. It's part of the challenge, exploration and replayability of the game.

 

[Goral]

Ideally any quest-related object wouldn't highlight.

If it were like that it would be counter-intuitive (why would anyone think that quest items would not be highlighted, unless they would write it in the manual) and pointless anyway since you would have to search for it anyway, because you would never know when the quest item could appear (besides the general area thanks to in-game hints, like with the decanter).

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Counter-intuitive or not, it would be better than the other options which are : 1 - Remove all highlighting from the game, or 2 - Have everything interactable highlight, even quest items.

Just put a giant NOTE in the game like what is already there for many items, saying "You may have to look around for certain quest items that aren't highlighted." That would likely take much more work but it would be an ideal situation for a future game, IMO.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

It's supposed to be missable. It's part of the challenge, exploration and replayability of the game.

I tend to agree with the basis of what you're saying. I think in general, removing TAB highlighting from games like this also makes you focus more on the world itself as well, rather than just running from loot point to loot point. But I don't think it's a terrible option to have in the game. I use it so far in PS:T:EE and am glad it's there. It is a shame that quests could be messed up with it, but hopefully those are few and far between.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Haha. You keep faking outrage for BIS, all while linking these "missing logos" as "proof of Beamdog's EVIL schemes" [...]

You truly are retarded. You can't even keep people separate. I couldn't be arsed to correct you the first time you did it, because the conversation had moved on, but you're well and truly beyond fucking stupid.

You are collecting tags like pokemon I see. Having fun?

I am having fun, thanks. What's a tag, though?

You are welcome.

He probably can't see the tags because he's frequenting the Codex using an forum app on his smartphone or something.

I still suggest he gets a Confirmed Retarded tag, possibly Shitposter too.

Wouldn't 'Confirmed Retarded' be 'Dumbfuck'? There's also the 'Douchebag' tag which is underused.

 

[Gunnar]

Haha. You keep faking outrage for BIS, all while linking these "missing logos" as "proof of Beamdog's EVIL schemes" [...]

You truly are retarded. You can't even keep people separate. I couldn't be arsed to correct you the first time you did it, because the conversation had moved on, but you're well and truly beyond fucking stupid.

You are collecting tags like pokemon I see. Having fun?

I am having fun, thanks. What's a tag, though?

You are welcome.

He probably can't see the tags because he's frequenting the Codex using an forum app on his smartphone or something.

I still suggest he gets a Confirmed Retarded tag, possibly Shitposter too.

Wouldn't 'Confirmed Retarded' be 'Dumbfuck'? There's also the 'Douchebag' tag which is underused.

 

[Cosmo]

I tend to agree with the basis of what you're saying. I think in general, removing TAB highlighting from games like this also makes you focus more on the world itself as well, rather than just running from loot point to loot point. But I don't think it's a terrible option to have in the game. I use it so far in PS:T:EE and am glad it's there. It is a shame that quests could be messed up with it, but hopefully those are few and far between.

So that's your new persona ? The embodiment of wishy washy ?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Haha. You keep faking outrage for BIS, all while linking these "missing logos" as "proof of Beamdog's EVIL schemes" [...]

You truly are retarded. You can't even keep people separate. I couldn't be arsed to correct you the first time you did it, because the conversation had moved on, but you're well and truly beyond fucking stupid.

You are collecting tags like pokemon I see. Having fun?

I am having fun, thanks. What's a tag, though?

You are welcome.

He probably can't see the tags because he's frequenting the Codex using an forum app on his smartphone or something.

I still suggest he gets a Confirmed Retarded tag, possibly Shitposter too.

Wouldn't 'Confirmed Retarded' be 'Dumbfuck'? There's also the 'Douchebag' tag which is underused.

I never saw the point of that tag. We used to have a village idiot (although he never got the tag), but now he's our pretty princess - Volourn.