Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Prime Junta]

The reclaim relics contracts are easy cash as you DO NOT NEED defeat enemy forces just walk away.

I... did not think of that. Thank you, good sir mercenary knight sir.

 

[Prime Junta]

Man, this game should have commissars to improve morale.

My mercenary party is called the Bolshevik Party and it sure as hell has commissars.

 

[Stavrophore]

The game has too much grind. It's nice, but you will need 150 battles to get to the end game[first crisis]. The starting part is just one abysmal grind[renown generation is way too slow], until you hit noble contracts. You will have to scrap everything to get by -brigands sporting that shiny armor, but you have to eat shit and wear shitty armor, because everything is too expensive -game forces you to strip armor from brigands using daggers, because there is no way you could afford mails on your team when second week hit[when brigands show up in contracts]. Seems like thug life gives more benefits, wonder why its not the case when my band go caravan hunting.... Until getting noble contracts, your primary focus is just gaining renown -the gains from contracts are really low, so you need a luck to get to the middle game phase. The problem in getting to that point is lack of information when you are getting contracts -how far is the contract destination from the contract giver[sometimes it tells its around some city, but mostly its some forsaken place that you hadnt uncovered, so you have no way to know how far it is] and what are the enemies you will encounter-skeletons are the worst.Thus if you end having to travel the half of the map to the contract that is in dangerous place, and you just decline that contract, the renown hit is way greater then you would otherwise get on succesful completion. You lost like 100-200 renown for declining contract, and get like 30!!! renown for completing it!.Same for double-crossing your employer handing wares to the guy who offers you money in the event. Having no way of scouting the attack place, like crypts and most ruins is just stupid, you should have the option to hang there for a day to uncover the stationed enemies[weird that you can scout the brigand camps, but you cant do the same with skeleton camps/monster camps]. There is no bestiary -eg. fought skeletons on swamp and in some miraculous way they could chase up my retreating men, dont know if it was because of fatigue, or they could move more tiles/had less ap cost per movement. Contracts are too RNG also, so are the cities and worldmap generation. Restarting 10 times, because each time you've got bad map is not fun.

You have no incentive to go out of town and plunder some crypts/camps because the reward-risk ratio is too low, sure i can loose some men, but then i'm left with sparse recruit options. Leveling up your recruits is pain in the ass in later stage of game. They should at least get some exp if they are in reserve -and they shouldnt get a morale malus, most people would be fine getting money for not risking their lifes you now.
Generally speaking the game has problem with reward to risk ratio -margins are too low, so if you are not doing things perfectly you will be grinding to death -especially in the early game, when one or two deaths and plenty of injuries, can set you a week off, and thats not acceptable because you HAVE TO prepare for first crisis, and for stronger enemies showing in the second and third week.In later stages of the game money is not much of nuisance[but payment for contracts are still too low, especially noble contracts that order you to travel to the other end of the map! helping some scrubs in a village for mere 2-3k whereas i will pay 1-1,5k just for merc upkeep],because you will get more money from contracts, mostly fighting humans,which are easiest to deal amongs goblins,orcs and legionarries[if you;ve chosen war as first crisis].Still in late game your biggest problem is recruitment and leveling up the scrubs. But early game is just unbalanced.

Speaking of contracts, its just stupid i cant take more than one, especially when im heading in the same direction. And also why the hell if im doing noble contracts and have to travel half of the world map to help some village, i will also have to travel back the same distance. Shouldnt the village leader who is the vassal of the noble lord, pay me directly, so i wouldn't need to travel back the half of the map, loosing money for merc upkeep. It's just silly that way, since all these villages/cities are under the control of one noble house, they have couriers that can deliver the money, there's no need for a duke to hand me the money in person.

 

[RK47]

ok , give this man day 1 crisis. problem solved.

The reclaim relics contracts are easy cash as you DO NOT NEED defeat enemy forces just walk away.

I... did not think of that. Thank you, good sir mercenary knight sir.

Pop up descriptions matter.

 

[Jimmious]

Stavrophore what are you grinding for exactly? To get into the late game? Is something different happening there apart from more combat?
If the combat is boring to you, you shouldn't play this game.-

rapsdjff I see you Throw us some comment when you have the time. How's the game selling, what is the next step etc!

 

[Stavrophore]

Stavrophore what are you grinding for exactly? To get into the late game? Is something different happening there apart from more combat?
If the combat is boring to you, you shouldn't play this game.-

Where exactly you found out the conclusion from my post that the combat is boring for me? It's not, it's the balancing that is off for me, and some QoL features that should be in the game.
I'm fine with setbacks, because they are unavoidable in a game with RNG, no matter how well you play, but you shouldnt spend your whole evening of grinding contracts, just because you have to regain footing, because you've lost two men and have lots of injuries. If the reward margin wasnt so low, i would have some money saved in the bank for such situations. But i dont have because early game is overly punishing -and its not your fault, but just general lack of information. Making game obtuse and obfuscated in regards to information or scouting is not a proper way to up the difficulty, because that only make you at the mercy of RNG and not your skill.Arbitrary rules for contracts and renown doesnt help either.

 

[Jimmious]

Grinding contracts is the whole game at the moment. There is literally is almost nothing else to do.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Grinding contracts is the whole game at the moment. There is literally is almost nothing else to do.

not exactly the highest of recommendations

 

[Jimmious]

Grinding contracts is the whole game at the moment. There is literally is almost nothing else to do.

not exactly the highest of recommendations

Possibly, but that's how it is at the moment. You get contracts and fight battles. In between you manage loot/brothers/resources. That's it, more or less. There are quite some mechanics involved in there, but that's what you do

 

[Marten Broadcloak]

Well, XCOM is also about grinding contracts with nothing else to do, yet it sold zillions of copies and is held in high regard. At least in Battle Brothers your actions actually shape the world, which is nice.

 

[Stavrophore]

Yeah but grinding for another 5-10k because you've recruited hedge knights/sellswords who are frankly useless[the fuck is that 55 melee skill and 95 fatigue], becuse RNG and developer screwed you, is not a good way. Too much randomness in recruiting "good recruits" in an ironman game is just stupid. And devs obfuscate information about recruits -what about showing us their talents at least? Or some background traits? Or at least show us a probable range of a skills of a specific recruit you want. Then you wouldnt recruit that one -after all its a free market, they offer their person and we can accept and recruit them or dont, based on an information. I dont ask for an interview option , but at least to get to know more about recruit. After all if you want to hire some guy to your company you want to know lots of things about him, and if the guy is obfuscating or not providing that info he is at least suspicious.Right now you have no way of knowing if that hedge guy is better than the other hedge guy -they are all the same, yet the first can be a killing machine, and the second just a scrub, albeit their price is the same, and the info is almost the same, beside some small change in their background info.

 

[RK47]

I AGREE. XCOM SUCKS.

 

[Stavrophore]

Well, XCOM is also about grinding contracts with nothing else to do, yet it sold zillions of copies and is held in high regard. At least in Battle Brothers your actions actually shape the world, which is nice.

XCOM 2 has better variety and more skills and utilities to deal with the situation at hand. You can mitigate randomness as the game progress -you can see how many enemies mission will have, you will have tons of skills with 100% hit chance, mimic beacons, incendiary grenades, etc. etc. And most important, in the end you will get on equal footing with aliens, as you develop techs and your team, having access to the same abilities in late game as aliens,that were locked in the early game[psionics]. In Battle Brothers you will never get the same abilities as necromancers, and they are just humans like people in your band. What is stopping you to get necromancer? Oh its the arbitraty developer rule! What about mounted combat that goblins have? Why cant you use horse for example?

I'm not complaining about getting same abilities as orcs or undeads, because they are different creatures, but necromancers and mounted combat should be obviously possible.Humans aren't distinct enough in this game -they dont have special skills that are only tied to their race. Each race/enemies should have their strengths, and aces up on sleeves. You see that group of enemies that are tightly packed next to each other -why wouldnt you throw a flask of greek fire, or some bomb? Magic and reviving undead is prominent, but a simple pyrotechnic device is just too much?

 

[Zetor]

Well, you have battle scanners (falcons) and mimic beacons (war dogs). Hell, mimic beacons can actually bite people in this game!

But yeah, I think keeping things mundane was a deliberate design decision -- this way, player power is fairly easy to define. Giving any kind of magical ability (or the mobility of goblins, the charge attacks of orcs, etc) or AOE attack to your mercs would throw stuff way off-balance. And then Josh Sawyer wouldn't have tweeted about it.

 

[Stavrophore]

Dogs are ok. but a bit expensive as they die like flies. Quite useful to catch retreating enemies, but anything else is just a waste of money. Only in late game when you are assaulting black monolith, dogs can be useful, basically unleash dogs from every one of you mercs, kill some legionarries, and retreat. Otherwise too unprofitable.

 

[Alienman]

My bannerman got scared, shit his pants and died.

Man, this game should have commissars to improve morale.

Just place a bowman in the far back that shoots randomly into your own line

 

[Prime Junta]

A dog costs 100-200+ crowns.
A cripple costs as low as 50, and you can control it in combat.

Do the math.

 

[Stavrophore]

Good comment from steam by Xenos:

Mordheim, which is another insanely grindy game, at least has permanent upgrades for you warband. Darkest Dungeon has the village. XCOM has the base and the research. Pretty much all RNG-heavy games try to mitigate the huge waste of time by giving you something bad luck can't take away. Not this one. Here you can pretty much restart your campaign after an ugly battle. It's a fatal flaw

 

[Stavrophore]

A dog costs 100-200 crowns.
A cripple costs as low as 50.

Do the math.

Killing a dog wont decrease morale, and morale cost -a few rounds in tavern. And if you have a full 12 people rooster, you cant field a cripple obviously. As i said dogs are good in late game in assaulting black monolith/goblin cities/any very hrad contract.

 

[Zetor]

A dog costs 100-200+ crowns.
A cripple costs as low as 50, and you can control it in combat.

Do the math.

Cripples count against your 12-unit limit, though... wardogs are just extra, plus I think losing a human unit is a bigger morale effect than losing a dog. (e: not to mention that losing a brother also affects out-of-battle morale levels, but losing dogs doesn't)

But yea, using throwaway mercs is an option earlier in the game. The right flank position on my frontline isn't called the "Sacrifice Spot" for nothing!

 

[Prime Junta]

Killing a dog wont decrease morale

Does too. Not as much as killing a cripple, but still.

 

[Stavrophore]

I think Dungeon Rats have more enjoyable combat and more tactics. Just fighting humans only gives you way more options, and is more intriguing, despite also being a low-magic universe[no fireballs obviously].

 

[Alienman]

Man, every game is a grind if you look at it that way. Live a little, role-play your group

Jimmious brought up X-com as an example. Mount & Blade is the same. Jagged Alliance 2. I mean as long as it is fun right? If it is starting to feel like a grind, or a slog then it is probably time to do something else.
Sure a camp, or a minor fort mechanic would be nice, but stuff like that can always be added in an expansion. But for now, we are just a scummy mercenary group, and what do mercenary groups do? Take shitty contracts hoping not to get cut down. People seem to be expecting a bit too much out of the game at the moment.

 

[RK47]

Live a little, role-play your group

Spoiler

 

[Stavrophore]

Man, every game is a grind if you look at it that way. Live a little, role-play your group

Jimmious brought up X-com as an example. Mount & Blade is the same. Jagged Alliance 2. I mean as long as it is fun right? If it is starting to feel like a grind, or a slog then it is probably time to do something else.
Sure a camp, or a minor fort mechanic would be nice, but stuff like that can always be added in an expansion. But for now, we are just a scummy mercenary group, and what do mercenary groups do? Take shitty contracts hoping not to get cut down. People seem to be expecting a bit too much out of the game at the moment.

Yeah that would be nice. I think everyone don't like loosing a whole campaign because of one bad battle, and this certainly can happen in BB. I've lost one ironman veteran campaign at 102 days, because of one stupid battle, didn't want to recover by grinding 2 stars contracts, to muster 20k of gold. There should be some safe points, like a concept of checkpoints that when shit goes wrong, you have a nice backup. A base of operations of some sorts, a healthy budget, or some other way than just grind 2 stars contracts...Any other way is better than a grind. Setbacks that needs two evenings to recover arent fun, i dont have 8 hours per day to play the game, i also have real life work.