Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[rusty_shackleford]

If anything, I think companies should be far less protective of their IPs. I'm not sure if I like it being called BG3(which, despite the page it isn't exactly confirmed, it could just be an advertising thing.) Companies obsessively protecting their IPs — especially when the few times they do let them be used in the past decade they mostly ended up producing shit games — is just bizarre. An equally bizarre phenomenon is fan reaction to be angry as seen in this thread. Even if there's a 1 in 100 chance that it's good, why are you upset? You have a chance to possibly get a great new RPG to play.

Did Paizo lose anything by taking a gamble with Owlcat?
Has Games Workshop somehow devalued their brand by letting so many developers produce games using their IP? No way, sure there are a lot of bad ones but there's also a handful of good ones that otherwise wouldn't exist.

 

[Mr. Hiver]

All those "reasons" are just idiotic nonsensical excuses.
In a world where resurrection is possible and doable by almost any priest of mid level and can be casted from a fucking scroll, you can bet your ass everyone would be going around with several scrolls in their pockets, just in case.
And if priests developed a habit to deny resurrection - guess who would be slaughtered really fast? And replaced by new more amiable priests.

also, new rules:

7th level necromancy,
You touch a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, that didn't die of old age, and that isn't Undead. If its soul is free and willing, the target returns to life with all its Hit Points.
This spell neutralizes any Poisons and cures normal Diseases afflicting the creature when it died. It doesn't, however, remove magical Diseases, curses, and the like, if such affects aren't removed prior to casting the spell, they afflict the target on its return to life.

This spell closes all mortal wounds and restores any missing body parts.

Casting this spell to restore life to a creature that has been dead for one year or longer taxes you greatly.

Taxes you greatly... oy, what an inconvenience. Its taxing. Gulps a potion, im okay now!

he's just not going to care that much about returning to his withered old body

hey, why dont you try pulling even more inane bullshit out of your ass to "win" an argument?
Besides, moron, Gorion was just an example of one person whose death served as a starting plot hook. The issue isnt just him but literally - everyone, every single NPC in both games.
As well that it is only you and your party that use these awesome abilities.

The other people they are just like, nah, i died, im fine! I was suicidal anyway! death is great!
Gtfo.

Money was also a huge problem in the games, suuuure.
And you just didnt have a priest as a companion either. NOPE!

 

[rusty_shackleford]

All those "reasons" are just idiotic nonsensical excuses.
In a world where resurrection is possible and doable by almost any priest of mid level and can be casted from a fucking scroll, you can bet your ass everyone would be going around with several scrolls in their pockets, just in case.
And if priests developed a habit to deny resurrection - guess who would be slaughtered really fast? And replaced by new more amiable priests.

also, new rules:

7th level necromancy,
You touch a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, that didn't die of old age, and that isn't Undead. If its soul is free and willing, the target returns to life with all its Hit Points.
This spell neutralizes any Poisons and cures normal Diseases afflicting the creature when it died. It doesn't, however, remove magical Diseases, curses, and the like, if such affects aren't removed prior to casting the spell, they afflict the target on its return to life.

This spell closes all mortal wounds and restores any missing body parts.

Casting this spell to restore life to a creature that has been dead for one year or longer taxes you greatly.

Taxes you greatly... oy, what an inconvenience. Its taxing. Gulps a potion, im okay now!

he's just not going to care that much about returning to his withered old body

hey, why dont you try pulling even more inane bullshit out of your ass to "win" an argument?
Besides, moron, Gorion was just an example of one person whose death served as a starting plot hook. The issue isnt just him but literally - everyone, every single NPC in both games.
As well that it is only you and your party that use these awesome abilities.

The other people they are just like, nah, i died, im fine! I was suicidal anyway! death is great!
Gtfo.

Money was also a huge problem in the games, suuuure.
And you just didnt have a priest as a companion either. NOPE!

You overlooked the idea that afterlife could simply be so grand that they don't want to come back

 

[Mr. Hiver]

Why the fuck would anyone be living then?
And why would anyone feel bad about anyone else dying or getting killed?

How fucking stupid are you people?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Why the fuck would anyone be living then?
And why would anyone feel bad about anyone else dying or getting killed?

How fucking stupid are you people?

How would living people know what the afterlife is like?

 

[ArchAngel]

There are two more reasons why "everyone" is not returned to life:
1. Priest does not want to do it.
2. Priest's God does not want it done.

Also if I remember well, in 2E elves could not be brought back from dead, they had a thing against resurrection magics.

 

[turkishronin]

I was playing ToB and at one point Sarevok made a joke that we've probably gotten a discount at the temple because of Imoen dying all the time. Resurrection is kinda lame tbqh in a setting.

 

[Stokowski]

Wouldn't the blame go at the feet of the people who created the problem in the first place by naming the game BG2 instead of something to do with bhaalspawn

Yep, but "So sayeth the wise Alaundo II" sounded a bit 'Lord British' and didn't test well.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

Also:



:brofist:

 

[Lacrymas]

They should've made all resurrections require someone else being sacrificed in the process.

 

[Cael]

They should've made all resurrections require someone else being sacrificed in the process.

Poor Aerie and Imoen...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

They should've made all resurrections require someone else being sacrificed in the process.

You kill a bunch of nameless nobodies all the time though.
Being resurrected should have a direct impact on the character depending on who resurrects them -- both with regards to the cleric and the deity the cleric worships. Would deities like Tyr, Torm, and Helm even be willing to bring back an evil(demonstrably so) person? Deities like Cyric would probably corrupt any non-evil individual resurrected, Would Lathander even be willing to bring someone back considering his stance on death?, etc.,
Ilmater would predictably become a much more popular deity in such a scenario because he is so forgiving.

 

[Lacrymas]

You have to capture and forcefully sacrifice a nameless nobody in that case, though, and that isn't so easily justified, especially to the good deities.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You have to capture and forcefully sacrifice a nameless nobody in that case, though, and that isn't so easily justified.

That brings up my point about deities though: Many of them would range from frowning to direct punishment for performing such an act.

 

[Yosharian]

Also:

https://twitter.com/felipepepe/status/1134441608181510144

https://twitter.com/felipepepe/status/1134443681069461504

:brofist:

I mean. Not really. BG2's gameplay is much more about game knowledge and 'I have the +5 Greatsword of Doom so I win!' than it is about RTS gameplay. They look similar only on surface level, this hypothesis doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The fact that he talks about LAN multiplayer when BG2 multiplayer was a thing that barely anyone played, says a lot about how nonsensical this tweet is

If supposed spiritual successors to BG2 feel like 'soulless cover bands' it has nothing to do with the things he says it is about. It's really quite easy to explain: they don't know how to replicate what they're trying to replicate. You don't have to go all edgyboi with 'muh zeitgeist' to explain this.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

BG2's gameplay essentially becomes spell caster chess at higher levels where you pause every 0.5 seconds

 

[hell bovine]

Yosharian You're talking about 3E's Raise Dead as if it was the only/best spell to bring someone back. Even if one insists this idea should follow 3E's spells, 3E Resurrection only needs a portion of the body and the target can be dead for 10 years/caster level. True Resurrection doesn't need a body at all. Wish can duplicate Resurrection/True Resurrection or follow special terms that are only limited by the DM/writer. Sure, these are high level and/or expensive spells, but as I said, that's not an issue in FR.

But they are an issue in Baldurs Gate 1.

Raise Dead costs nothing in 2E, the target just has to pass a resurrection check. 2E Resurrection and Wish also cost nothing, they just age the caster (which can be reversed with Restore Youth).

CHARNAME could've easily brought Gorion back to life in BG2, it just wasn't the story they wanted to tell. IIRC there was an excuse with Jaheira saying you can't use Resurrection when the body is too destroyed, but that's only supposed to make the resurrection harder, not impossible (the spell's description mentions 'bones of a creature', after all). Not to mention this wouldn't apply to Wish.

I'm not referring to the cost, I'm referring to the requirement of having a high level Cleric who can cast Resurrection.

The Lathander cleric in the Beregost temple is level 16.

Ulraunt was right, charname is simply an ungrateful sod.

 

[Yosharian]

The Lathander cleric in the Beregost temple is level 16.

Ulraunt was right, charname is simply an ungrateful sod.

Level SIXTEEN? Really??

 

[BING XI LAO]

Didn't Baldur's Gate base itself around the second edition rather than 3.5? Not that I know if the Raise Dead mechanics are significantly different in that one, but still, if we're going to dig out the text it may as well be from the right edition.

Yes I'm fully aware of that, but my point is that spells often have limiting factors or costs that balance them out. And these are often role-playing factors, because, SHOCK! d&d is a role-playing game!

So acting like death is of no consequence just because the Raise Dead spell exists is just bone-headed.

This is without even considering that it's a 5th level spell, not something any old town cleric is going to have.

As if CHARNAME has a high level cleric and 5000gp available, and Gorion didn't get gibbed into 5000 pieces by Sarevok...

Candlekeep has a high level cleric and some money, why wouldn't they raise a respected member of their community if CHARNAME came back to the gate and told them what had happened?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The Lathander cleric in the Beregost temple is level 16.

Ulraunt was right, charname is simply an ungrateful sod.

There's multiple ways to prevent resurrection in D&D(I'm not sure how many are in 2E), so it was just laziness/incompetence from the writers.

Candlekeep has a high level cleric and some money, why wouldn't they raise a respected member of their community if CHARNAME came back to the gate and told them what had happened?

Candlekeep was thoroughly infiltrated with dopplegangers

 

[Kem0sabe]

Also:

https://twitter.com/felipepepe/status/1134441608181510144

https://twitter.com/felipepepe/status/1134443681069461504

:brofist:

Anyone who uses "zeitgeist" in a conversation is in serious need of a slice of humble pie.

 

[Storyfag]

Candlekeep was thoroughly infiltrated with dopplegangers

Not at the start of the game. At that point it was likely only starting.

 

[J_C]

Why the fuck would anyone be living then?
And why would anyone feel bad about anyone else dying or getting killed?

How fucking stupid are you people?

Just because you can meta the gameplay of BG1, and suddenly get 5000 gold (which is a lifetime of money for average Joe), find a high level priest who is willing to break the cycle of life and death just because a peasant walked into the temple, doesn't mean that in the FR everybody would be ressurected at a whim.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Why the fuck would anyone be living then?
And why would anyone feel bad about anyone else dying or getting killed?

How fucking stupid are you people?

How would living people know what the afterlife is like?

If a game allows me to resurrect dead characters, my party is always intimately acquainted with the afterlife.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Candlekeep was thoroughly infiltrated with dopplegangers

Not at the start of the game. At that point it was likely only starting.

The situation was bad enough for Gorion to get you out of there ASAP -- I don't believe they explicitly ever detail whether it was due to that, Sarevok, or whatever. There's obviously a good chance you'd get offed if you (canonically) went back.

iirc in the novels the group that confronts abdel is just a band of mercenaries and gorion dies from a bolt to the eye then abdel kills all of them
edit: Some of the dopplegangers in chapter 6 refer to events that happened prior to you leaving, by the way.