Avowed character creation has pronouns - Elon Musk disapproves, Obsidian art director disapproves of his disapproval

[Vox Machina]

if they're acting against the ToS or just being an ass/psychopath

That's not how this scenario was described at all though. If they're writing regular feedback that happens to push back against a game's ideological choices, it doesn't inherently fit these descriptions, does it? I assume gamers are expected to shut up and not be customers I guess?

You can just read the post that got him banned: https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/4625855423767978226/?ctp=4

This person wants steam to "ban all aggressively woke people" so they can enjoy their "safe space". It's like walking into a Starbucks, ordering a coffee, then taping a big sign to the countertop that says "Hey can you kick out all the black people I'm racist and I would like to enjoy my safe space". Like, of course the Starbucks is gonna kick his ass out.

 

[docmars]

This person wants steam to "ban all aggressively woke people" so they can enjoy their "safe space". It's like walking into a Starbucks, ordering a coffee, then taping a big sign to the countertop that says "Hey can you kick out all the black people I'm racist and I would like to enjoy my safe space". Like, of course the Starbucks is gonna kick his ass out.

Again, I think that's a bad comparison. I'll admit the post reads a little trolley, and is ironically using woke language to turn it around on them to show how absurd actual woke people sound. A better hypothetical would be like:

- At some point, Starbucks' products start lecturing customers about racism / bigotry / (insert woke trope here)
- Customers start complaining because it's condescending and unwelcome
- So, a bunch of random blue-hairs start walking in and sitting down with customers, bitching them out for being "racists", "bigots", and "something-phobes" because a few people complained
- Customers start complaining more, and many more start boycotting them altogether
- The vicious cycle repeats...

So yea, the problem is totally those pesky customers who were labeled all the things, and not the company that started absolutely nonsense shit with them in the first place. /s

This person is reasonably pointing out that within Steam's communities, there's a whole-lotta shitposting going on by woke mobs generating bait, or spewing hot air by labeling people who are tired of their favorite game franchises transforming into a corporate HR training series on DEI -- something that's inherently been a part of entertainment long before the woke movement even started, but without the government funding, checkboxes, and belittling. There was a marked shift in the 2010's and even more aggressively in the 2020's, and people are noticing (and tired of it).

That said, I think it's reasonable to ask for better moderation against the trolls who perform this whole gaslighting cycle I described above.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Sawyer didn't exactly seem engaged or thrilled with the idea of working on a title that is a spin-off (whatever you want to call it) of an I.P he was initially heavily involved with.

Sawyer at one time did one of his posts/interviews/presentations/whatever in which he said that he always treats his various projects as purely a job. Ngl, that was kinda depressing when he put it like that, but it is true when it comes to working in the industry as a dev. Do your best work, but never get emotionally invested for a product that isn't yours by right.

 

[Vox Machina]

This person wants steam to "ban all aggressively woke people" so they can enjoy their "safe space". It's like walking into a Starbucks, ordering a coffee, then taping a big sign to the countertop that says "Hey can you kick out all the black people I'm racist and I would like to enjoy my safe space". Like, of course the Starbucks is gonna kick his ass out.

Again, I think that's a bad comparison. I'll admit the post reads a little trolley, and is ironically using woke language to turn it around on them to show how absurd actual woke people sound. A better hypothetical would be like:

- At some point, Starbucks' products start lecturing customers about racism / bigotry / (insert woke trope here)
- Customers start complaining because it's condescending and unwelcome
- So, a bunch of random blue-hairs start walking in and sitting down with customers, bitching them out for being "racists", "bigots", and "something-phobes" because a few people complained
- Customers start complaining more, and many more start boycotting them altogether
- The vicious cycle repeats...

So yea, the problem is totally those pesky customers who were labeled all the things, and not the company that started absolutely nonsense shit with them in the first place. /s

This person is reasonably pointing out that within Steam's communities, there's a whole-lotta shitposting going on by woke mobs generating bait, or spewing hot air by labeling people who are tired of their favorite game franchises transforming into a corporate HR training series on DEI -- something that's inherently been a part of entertainment long before the woke movement even started, but without the government funding, checkboxes, and belittling. There was a marked shift in the 2010's and even more aggressively in the 2020's, and people are noticing (and tired of it).

That said, I think it's reasonable to ask for better moderation against the trolls who perform this whole gaslighting cycle I described above.

If I had to guess this person likely got banned for backseat modding (i.e. calling for bans) or for trolling, or some combination of both.

From the Steam Community Guidelines:

I have literally _never_ looked at the Steam General Discussions (or any Steam Forum for that matter, never really wanted to and all I've heard about them is that it's a cesspool), but if the bolded is true (in your post) then those people should be moderated as well. Same energy and all that.

 

[docmars]

I think something that might help bring understanding to the anti-woke movement is to put it in terms of fads and themes...

Think back to the 70's-early 2000's when the Goth / Emo trend exploded among younger crowds. Go to pretty much any high school and you'd find a small community of both chilling in the hallways eating lunch together. People would walk past them and let them do their thing without much or any thought, at least that's how it worked in my school. I mean, if you were lucky, one of them might hiss at you.

Now imagine that these groups started demanding they be represented in every company, institution, piece of entertainment, you name it. They invent their own language, and now every company MUST use it. They hold events that all employees must attend for fear of being a "bigot". They casually mention how much they hate the "white race" in films and games, and on social media. This all would have sounded absurd during that time, and most wouldn't hesitate to shame them back into their corner of peaceful co-existance.

Besides, these groups had their own bands, shops, etc. that could fill almost any niche or aspect for that community, and only the worst Karens would complain about it, but you never heard about it in the news. They just existed in their own world and built their communities around those shared interests, without bothering anyone else.

For me, this is 100% how I view the Alphabet Mafia. It's literally just a fad / trend that blew up and got popular among (yet again) the younger generations looking for a purpose, a theme, and a way of life that runs counter to the norm -- except this time it involves irreversible surguries and full compliance with a political agenda comprised of issues that don't even relate to their interests. To not comply is to be groups like these who are doing good work, frankly.

We're tired of major corporations being like: "Hey, do you wanna be Goth?! Here's our Emo logo! Buy our Hipster products!" all in lockstep, simultaneously pushing the same. exact. thing. every. time. Predictable doesn't even begin to explain it.

The trouble is, you can tell a leftist until you're blue in the face that you simply don't like the fad, and they'll exaggerate it into "hate" and "dehumanization" or some tired drivel. Again, what's absurd about it is... someone could say the same thing about Goths, Emos, or Hipsters, and any reasonable person would brush it off and laugh, and more likely say: "Yea, me too, they're kind of silly aren't they?" But no, god forbid someone doesn't identify with the current trend! This is grounds for employment termination! This is grounds for mass media shaming and attacks!

And in the world of Goths, Emos, and Hipsters, nobody in the world would defend them for wanting mainstream exposure. They know they're niche, so they let the normies do their thing and leave majority society alone.

This is why wokeness is getting massive pushback, because for the first time, we've seen how rampant insecurity can dismantle society one company/institution at a time, all for the narcissism of pushing a damn fad to a zealous, religious degree.

 

[docmars]

If I had to guess this person likely got banned for backseat modding (i.e. calling for bans) or for trolling, or some combination of both.

Yea, that seems like the most plausible explanation honestly.

 

[Lord of Riva]

For me, this is 100% how I view the Alphabet Mafia. It's literally just a fad / trend that blew up and got popular among (yet again) the younger generations looking for a purpose, a theme, and a way of life that runs counter to the norm -- except this time it involves irreversible surguries and full compliance with a political agenda comprised of issues that don't even relate to their interests. To not comply is to be groups like these who are doing good work, frankly.

It's controlled, gendertheory is feminist and transhumanist in nature you are right that it is a "fad" or rather those wanting to eliminate males (which are not only the majority in video games but more importantly social sciences and education) propagated this fad by harming mostly men and boys, toxic masculinity and all)

All this is supposed to defeat the ultimate evil, no matter the cost, which is men. So there is the difference, yes a fad but with a gigantic dogmatic lobby propping it up.

 

[Alienman]

This is silly. Linking the political movement of the LGBMICROWAVE+ movement to civil rights is ridiculous, and pure hyperbole. Some needed context is required to recontextualize the discussion; here's the reality, weirdos are phishing a harmful ideology that it is predicated on the mutilation of the privates, whilst seeking to eliminate traditional norms that are sacred and necessary to the function of society; on top of harming the youth with gender ideology that only serves to harm their development. All of this is eroding society, all of this is harmful, all of this is turning our youth into future genuine pigs who will become slaves to the pharmaceutical industry that cares not for their well being, but how much money they can extort from our vulnerable youth.

Sounds like a Majestic 12 plot when you put it like that

 

[Vox Machina]

~snip~

They casually mention how much they hate the "white race" in films and games,

Pretty good analogy. I was in High School in the early 00's. I remember the baggy jeans with 100 zippers and chains running from each one to some unknown place. As for the bolded, that's just racism should be called as such where it shows up. I've stated earlier in this thread that the Art Director should be fired for his racism.

 

[docmars]

All this is supposed to defeat the ultimate evil, no matter the cost, which is men. So there is the difference, yes a fad but with a gigantic dogmatic lobby propping it up.

Completely agree -- I don't want to minimize how serious the problem is by using the fad analogy too loosely, but it's a fad nonetheless that has been misrepresented as a human rights issue because people's choices are being equated with immutable attributes that are traditionally protected in civilized society. That's why criticizing someone on the basis of their skin color is taboo, because it's a biological trait they didn't get to choose, so out of respect, we view ourselves on the same playing field.

Anything that can be changed by will of the person changing themselves is not protected, because bad choices are avoidable. Society gets to dictate what's good/bad through by creating norms and mores. The mistake wokes are making is using the raw power of government and corporations to enforce what they see as "good", when it's only a small number of people who actually view it that way, so it creates this illusion there's massive support behind it to persuade fence-sitters not to go against the grain.

Thankfully this year's game boycotts and sweeping election victory spoke volumes. I think a lot of people have been flipping on these issues because they're finally responding to their conscience, and noticing that the harsher penalties are starting to fade as people grow bolder pushing back. They're also starting to realize, with entertainment, wokeness is the reason why the writing is bad, because leftists go out of their way not to expose themselves to difficult topics and avoid responding to harsh realities with the same grit and confidence their counterparts do.

It'd be like asking someone who's never driven a car to create a racing game. How can a team of people who willfully avoid conflict and promote toxic positivity in all of their interactions write a dark and deep story full of morally gray choices, with a clear difference between good and evil?

 

[kapisi]

EXCLUSIVE , FRESH FROM THE PRESSES, WHISTLEBLOWER SAYS MATT HANSEN IS PURE EVIIIL!!!

Man, those rage farmers are hilarious. First there was the Duckman speaking with his nose, now this guy is so animated, he's like a 10 year old with hairy arms

 

[Lord_Potato]

This game will suck, but not because it is "woke" or anything related to this.

It's an actual thing that is unfortunate because everytime a game flops and has actual legit criticisms the grifters that subsumes everything into woke and culture war bs. There can be no discourse anymore that address the actual issue without sliding down into meaningless term that is "woke". Yes, not even dustborn flopped because it's "woke"

It flopped because stupid writing, worldbuilding and shityy gameplay.

 

[GrainWetski]

Did Obsidian send out the Reddit brigade to tell the evil nazis to shut up and consoom products? I'm sure it'll work.

 

[Fargus]

They need to send literal whores giving free blowjobs to convince people to consume this boredom.

Man, those rage farmers are hilarious. First there was the Duckman speaking with his nose, now this guy is so animated, he's like a 10 year old with hairy arms

I think it's the guy who got into some turd flinging with Mercunte on twitter. Then again half of the twitter did at this point so i'm not sure.

 

[Swen]

And all such games should be avoided, unless you want this garbage to get even worse.

Baldur's Gate 3 sold tens of millions. If it's entertaining, most people don't care.

BG3 *claps* IS *claps* NOT *claps* WOKE *claps*

* taps the sign *

You can kill anything that's "woke" and continue without a problem. Not the case in most real woke games.

 

[Van-d-all]

User submitted tags

Yes users submit tags, but publishers can get steam to remove them

I dare them to try removing the "lgbt+" tag. The reaction will be delicious.

This. I'm very curious how steam will weasel out from using it, since it's clearly became a dog whistle within the allowed tags and games like Veilguard or Avoved have it as highest one now.

 

[Reinhardt]

I'll start taking you serious when *you* actually have something to say.

I'm fairly familiar with the tactics of your ilk, so there's no need to pretend. Let's not beat around the bush - you're not going to do anything but move the goalposts and not so subtly seethe that performative pandering is being rightly ridiculed.

Pattern recognition alone shows many red flags with the game. It's utter slop. You're free to be excited and to play it. Though the tide is turning and a bunch of aging, nutty progressives will further lose relevance and scorch the reputation they built up by being involved in better games in days gone by.

Please do not waste your time interacting with Morgoth. He just is like that.

i call your post "election interference"

 

[kangaxx]

Leftists just can't help themselves. Pure cancer.

 

[markec]

Yes I support gay marriage, abortion rights, trans rights, why do you ask?"

Great job lumping the desire to sleep around yet not end up emburdened with an unwanted little shit (which is something every healthy man and woman desires most of the time) together with tranny "rights". Sure way to win hearts for the cause, LMAO.

You call women which partake in casual sex with abortion being used as contraceptive as a "healthy women".

I call them degenerate whores.

 

[Thalstarion]

User submitted tags

Yes users submit tags, but publishers can get steam to remove them

I dare them to try removing the "lgbt+" tag. The reaction will be delicious.

This. I'm very curious how steam will weasel out from using it, since it's clearly became a dog whistle within the allowed tags and games like Veilguard or Avoved have it as highest one now.

I don't think they'll be able to get away with it and it certainly fits, since I have a strong hunch that the game will be full of badly written quests where an NPC states over and over that they're looking for their significant other who more often than not turns out to be some flavour of LGBT. That's in addition to a disproportionate amount of interracial relationships despite the relative rarity of such in the real world, even amongst the LGBT crowd.

 

[Haba]

I don't think they'll be able to get away with it and it certainly fits, since I have a strong hunch that the game will be full of badly written quests where an NPC states over and over that they're looking for their significant other who more often than not turns out to be some flavour of LGBT. That's in addition to a disproportionate amount of interracial relationships despite the relative rarity of such in the real world, even amongst the LGBT crowd.

"Good news <questgiver_NPC>! We found him!"
"Him?"
"Uh I... we found xhey? xhe?"
"HOW DARE YOU!"
*** entire faction turns hostile ***
*** 200 good boy points lost ***

 

[Storyfag]

I'll start taking you serious when *you* actually have something to say.

I'm fairly familiar with the tactics of your ilk, so there's no need to pretend. Let's not beat around the bush - you're not going to do anything but move the goalposts and not so subtly seethe that performative pandering is being rightly ridiculed.

Pattern recognition alone shows many red flags with the game. It's utter slop. You're free to be excited and to play it. Though the tide is turning and a bunch of aging, nutty progressives will further lose relevance and scorch the reputation they built up by being involved in better games in days gone by.

Please do not waste your time interacting with Morgoth. He just is like that.

i call your post "election interference"

So the election is going on after all? I can't find the thread for it...

 

[DannyRope]

(...) these groups had their own bands, shops, etc. that could fill almost any niche or aspect for that community, and only the worst Karens would complain about it, but you never heard about it in the news. They just existed in their own world and built their communities around those shared interests, without bothering anyone else.

For me, this is 100% how I view the Alphabet Mafia. It's literally just a fad / trend that blew up and got popular among (yet again) the younger generations looking for a purpose, a theme, and a way of life that runs counter to the norm -- except this time it involves irreversible surguries and full compliance with a political agenda comprised of issues that don't even relate to their interests. To not comply is to be groups like these who are doing good work, frankly.
(...)
And in the world of Goths, Emos, and Hipsters, nobody in the world would defend them for wanting mainstream exposure. They know they're niche, so they let the normies do their thing and leave majority society alone.

The most common rebuttal to that line of argument is that "being homosexual or trans doesn't equate to being Goth or any other subculture because homosexual and trans people have existed through history and they don't choose to be that way, they're born that way". I can sympathize to the need of being true to oneself, although that argument opens a can of worms. Yeah sure, you can chose to not wear Goth fashion clothing but I don't think, say, Sophie Lancaster's mother would have appreciate anyone saying to her: "you know, if your daughter wasn't so openly Goth, wearing only black and shit, she wouldn't have been beaten to death". It seems a bit insensitive to me.

We're tired of major corporations being like: "Hey, do you wanna be Goth?! Here's our Emo logo! Buy our Hipster products!" all in lockstep, simultaneously pushing the same. exact. thing. every. time. Predictable doesn't even begin to explain it.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Corpos don't really care, they just want to sell their products and pretending to care about social issues with empty and safe gestures helps them to do just that. Corpos will never stick their necks out by saying something too bold however, that's a huge risk to their brands (v.g.: putting a black lives matter hashtag in the bio of the company's Twitter/X account in the aftermath of George Floyd's death but without denouncing police brutality). "Socially conscious" hashtags and putting the company logo in the rainbow colors are inexpensive while giving a boost in PR, that's why they are so ubiquitous not because the suits actually believe in anything, perish the thought!

Community managers, artists, devs and the like can be true believers, of course, and they're useful that way because they give the sense of legitimacy, that is, that the companies really care about those social issues.

 

[A-Minish]

Again it's not the politics, it's lazy writing and/or pandering without thoughts. Metal gear solid is political. Ff7 is political, fucking one piece is VERY Political. lot of art and literature (including heavily commercialized ones). I truly believe representation is important and beneficial on the caveat of it is written well and the concept diegetically arise from within its narrative. the problem is lazy writing and pandering that stems from it.

If it's something like ring of power's black elves, it's just lazy and forced because there is no context in lotr's world that allow elves to look african.

A good example is actually pillars of eternity's vallia. A lot of of people in codex panned it for being "black italians" which honestly there are already context and lore explanation why the vallian republics have darker skin. At a surface it's african representation, but it naturally arise from an already existing subrace in the world, and that's up to the author. It's certainly much better than black odin or someshit like that.

For context, a lot of Christian hates God's not dead movies, not because they hate themselves, but because it's bad, lazy and just shitty pandering in general.

I think you are mostly right, except for this weird "it's not the politics". How do you know that for certain ? How do you know their real motivations ? It hard to guess what some folks have in mind but sometimes there are signs. You know pandering can be detrimental to any fictionnal work, especialy depending on the reason behind it, so why excluding "politics" from the pool of potential reasons ?

I had to suffer through my life because of retarded leftwing politics, far-right ignorant dogma, moronic far-huffing centrist, racist pieces of shit, religious retards and extrem tribalist(sex, race, gender). I lived it for God's sake. And now some of those folks in the video game industry have some of the same behaviors and actions.

With current day Obsidian for exemple I have big doubts that their morals did not interfered with Avowed creation process. We already have a snippet of it with the pronouns(THAT alone can be linked to public heatlh politics by the way) and the art director's reaction is telling me more pandering might be at play. But we will only know to which extent when Avowed get released.

 

[Reinhardt]

I don't think they'll be able to get away with it and it certainly fits, since I have a strong hunch that the game will be full of badly written quests where an NPC states over and over that they're looking for their significant other who more often than not turns out to be some flavour of LGBT. That's in addition to a disproportionate amount of interracial relationships despite the relative rarity of such in the real world, even amongst the LGBT crowd.

"Good news <questgiver_NPC>! We found him!"
"Him?"
"Uh I... we found xhey? xhe?"
"HOW DARE YOU!"
*** entire faction turns hostile ***
*** 200 good boy points lost ***

good thing you only need to kill half of them yourself