KickStarter ATOM RPG - Wasteland Soviet style! - now with Dead City update

[Deleted Member 22431]

So the best rifle is R700M!

 

[Van-d-all]

Since we are talking about it, does luck affect jam chances and critical hit chances? Anyone tried a character with 10 in luck?

Crit chances yes. There's also a bug? that pops Crit Chance up if you take Cursed Sniper with 1-2 LCK.

 

[razvedchiki]

So rk47 melee is viable in normal with its 2 per lvl ability points

 

[RK47]

So rk47 melee is viable in normal with its 2 per lvl ability points

Already said it before. And I'll say it again. Don't ever rely solely on melee for combat. Some shit are just not meant to trade blows with.
Melee is only reliable when you're clearing trash like tiny bugs and rats that cannot knock you down or burst you.
So let's drop this idea of being 'pure melee', such a thing is silly.

Already outlined that you need defensive perks first, Knockdown resist, Oak Skin, Think like the Enemy for DT enchancements. Assuming you're not playing 'smoke the elevator guy' style that means you have to slowly build up your DR & DT from scraps. Since the melee damage bonus is per attack, that means the more strike you can do, the more bonus damage you deal. This is especially true when you use the Shiv (2AP) to deal 5 strikes per turn. Let's say your bonus damage is +4 that's 5 x 4 = 20 bonus compared to a wooden club that costs 4 AP per swing.

It is for the above reason why I can't get that excited over high AP melee weapons, no matter how awesome they sound. The system needs a revamp. It's just not rewarding to go for melee build. You will not be that unkillable fighting machine. More like a guy who jams Superstim needles constantly. My lone wolf run was hopeless when I started to get hunted for robbing caravans. I spent 99% of my time equipped with super stim on each hand and just running away. Do not underestimate your enemy as melee! I had one 'easy' encounter with doomsday cult that nearly ended with death because they 'allah akbar'd' right on my face. That's right. They blew up. 36 damage. Left with 3 HP. One cultist left with a zip gun. I took no chances and just ran out of the map.

Until they patch something new to balance things out, Close combat purist will not survive long.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

My lone wolf run was hopeless when I started to get hunted for robbing caravans. I spent 99% of my time equipped with super stim on each hand and just running away.

Well, to be honest, it would be hopeless either way because you were underleveled to fight these guys. The result would be the same with guns. But yeah, meele sucks. They need new perks and improvements yesterday.

 

[Atomboy]

So the main quest is tied to Dan's quests or what? I just want knoe if I need to start all over again.

It's not!

lol

Ok. Started a new game. Did all the village stuff and left for the bandit/factory. First random encounter: 5 dudes with guns killed me before I even had a turn. Tell me again how the random encounters are based on your level and this game is properly balanced? I take nothing back from my Steam review, but jesus H. this needs some work.

Basically what happened there was the result of removing level scaling. It means that every level has a chance to meet such a crew especially if he walks in a certain direction, like far east from Otradnoye or south east, or north. But on levels 1-3 they should have a pretty low encounter %. Like 5%-10%! But on the bright side you might encounter a caravan with end-game goods with the same %!

Hm. I'm having a sneaky suspicion that the Vintorez is regarded by the game as a 'scoped' weapon.
Atomboy can you confirm this? Game really needs clearer descriptions on weapons and ability tree.

I suspect that comes from a translation mistake. The game has a scoped Vintorez and a non scoped AS Val, but for reasons unknown in English version I came across something called Vintorez, with the graphics of AS Val...

Well that's retarded! I'll look through the files. It should not be this way. The VSS is scoped, the AS VAL is not.

With the frequent patches and their plans to significantly alter the gameplay in the future, not sure it's worth it to play this right now.

Well... Basically what the new combat will be is old combat, with a bit of better pathing, and also every enemy will have a chance to be crippled in some way prior to the battle. Like have one eye or something. So nowadays you can meet 5 mercenaries, let's say. But now you'll get to meet 5 mercenaries one of which doesn't have a hand (thus only uses pistols even if level % tells him to use a heavy machinegun) and the other has one eye (-30% to hit) and 3 normal mercenaries. That is going to be of great help to the casual players and those who are unlucky enough to meet a high tier crew early on. Other addit

Just finished the game and was kinda disappointed in the lack of details in the ending slides.

Spoiler

I was also confused by why Peregon devolves into civil war even after I establish peace between the three leaders. Was I supposed to off 2 of them and just leave 1?

Though I dug the mushroom cult. Very gonzo 70s/80s D&D. And the conflict between facing extinction on humanity's terms and saving ourselves by sacrificing our humanity to the mushroom hivemind.

Hi! The Peregon slide miiiight have been a bug. Or not. I'll look into it.

 

[krilcebre]

Crippled mercenaries aside, what are you doing to balance pistols and melee. Currently they are super underpowered and not useful in any way or form after level 10 or so, since by then we are able to get some decent ARs or rifles. I mean most of the guns burst shots cost the same as a pistol aimed shot (sometimes even a normal shot), which is terrible since burst is 3 bullets at least, each of those dealing more damage than a single pistol bullet (meaning more than 3x damage for the same AP cost, while maintaining bigger distance and not having any defense penalty, since shields are crappy). Not to mention the problem of not being able to cover the distance for melee, lack of defense, and so on. After trying out multiple builds, the only once i found viable are the ones either focusing on ars or rifles and shotguns. Smgs are poor man's ARs, requiring to be much closer and doing lower damage, while having the same AP cost.

 

[Atomboy]

Crippled mercenaries aside, what are you doing to balance pistols and melee. Currently they are super underpowered and not useful in any way or form after level 10 or so, since by then we are able to get some decent ARs or rifles. I mean most of the guns burst shots cost the same as a pistol aimed shot (sometimes even a normal shot), which is terrible since burst is 3 bullets at least, each of those dealing more damage than a single pistol bullet (meaning more than 3x damage for the same AP cost, while maintaining bigger distance and not having any defense penalty, since shields are crappy). Not to mention the problem of not being able to cover the distance for melee, lack of defense, and so on. After trying out multiple builds, the only once i found viable are the ones either focusing on ars or rifles and shotguns. Smgs are poor man's ARs, requiring to be much closer and doing lower damage, while having the same AP cost.

Well, we're adding the recipes for new zip guns, including the 2AP pistol, as well us around 4 new fist weapons. Are you sure you are using the right skills from the skill tree? We're having a large inside debate around melee. I have no problem using it until the late game, for example, but some die very quickly. There might be some additions to the melee skillset.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

Atomboy Just finished the game. ATOM RPG is a real gem, if a bit rough at the edges. I feel that the two "additional" maps could use some more content though. I played in Russian, quite liked the writing. Was a bit disappointed that I got no slides for Caravansarai. I'm also curious whether KRZ has a happier ending than

Spoiler

withering due to being complacent in its safety (mushroom ending was downright scary)

 

[Atomboy]

Atomboy Just finished the game. ATOM RPG is a real gem, if a bit rough at the edges. I feel that the two "additional" maps could use some more content though. I played in Russian, quite liked the writing. Was a bit disappointed that I got no slides for Caravansarai. I'm also curious whether KRZ has a happier ending than

Spoiler

withering due to being complacent in its safety (mushroom ending was downright scary)

Thanks, man! We'll polish the hell out of it yet. After the balance fixes we'll start the dlc work. Also yeah, it does have a kind of a happy ending :D

 

[krilcebre]

Game is fucking awesome, I'm just trying fulfill my wish of playing melee only brute while being able to finish a game, without having to abuse speechcraft. :D

Atomboy, my suggestion for melee and pistol balance is that you should actually change shield mechanics. Shields should work like dodge, as in you have a chance to block 100% damage (it's a shield after all). While dodge is tied to dexterity, shield block chance should be tied with strength or endurance, or even both, along with that perk you already have. Change the second perk in melee tree to increased chance to block while adjusted to someone, be it friend or enemy, or for spent APs like it already works, since dodge is currently useless against gun wielding enemies, meaning you have a useless perk, and it's overridden by armor which you have to wear anyway. That way you get to be more defensive when using pistols and melee, which is balanced by the fact that they have lower offensive power anyway. So you are trading good offense and carrying capacity for good defense. I think that's a fair trade, and it's not too deep into perk trees, so you can get them with both pistols and melee builds.

 

[Atomboy]

Game is fucking awesome, I'm just trying fulfill my wish of playing melee only brute while being able to finish a game, without having to abuse speechcraft. :D

Atomboy, my suggestion for melee and pistol balance is that you should actually change shield mechanics. Shields should work like dodge, as in you have a chance to block 100% damage (it's a shield after all). While dodge is tied to dexterity, shield block chance should be tied with strength or endurance, or even both, along with that perk you already have. Change the second perk in melee tree to increased chance to block while adjusted to someone, be it friend or enemy, or for spent APs like it already works, since dodge is currently useless against gun wielding enemies, meaning you have a useless perk, and it's overridden by armor which you have to wear anyway. That way you get to be more defensive when using pistols and melee, which is balanced by the fact that they have lower offensive power anyway. So you are trading good offense and carrying capacity for good defense. I think that's a fair trade, and it's not too deep into perk trees, so you can get them with both pistols and melee builds.

I think what you wrote is kind of a good idea, so I'm gonna copypaste it to the guy who made shields, hoping he will make sense out of it. I just lose brain cells when I think about shield mechanics. Can't seem to use them with my melee build without making it worse unless I buy 3400 shield skills, so early skills might solve the problem of shields somewhat hopefully. What I can add though is that dodge will now actually work against shooters some times! Actually yeah, doing stuff with shields might do the trick. I'll start up the conversation.

 

[Atomboy]

Okay, so how would you guys feel if that one perk that gives +2 hp regeneration when you're at 50% health would give you 5% DR and +25% to HtH attacks (both with knuckles and melee)? It's pretty much useless as it is, and it's in the melee branch of the tree. Be honest!

Game is fucking awesome, I'm just trying fulfill my wish of playing melee only brute while being able to finish a game, without having to abuse speechcraft. :D

Atomboy, my suggestion for melee and pistol balance is that you should actually change shield mechanics. Shields should work like dodge, as in you have a chance to block 100% damage (it's a shield after all). While dodge is tied to dexterity, shield block chance should be tied with strength or endurance, or even both, along with that perk you already have. Change the second perk in melee tree to increased chance to block while adjusted to someone, be it friend or enemy, or for spent APs like it already works, since dodge is currently useless against gun wielding enemies, meaning you have a useless perk, and it's overridden by armor which you have to wear anyway. That way you get to be more defensive when using pistols and melee, which is balanced by the fact that they have lower offensive power anyway. So you are trading good offense and carrying capacity for good defense. I think that's a fair trade, and it's not too deep into perk trees, so you can get them with both pistols and melee builds.

Also, I got into the shield mechanics and found out that the best shield already has 99% chance of complete absorption if shots are fired from the front, so how about using up AP would add DR% instead of absorption chance?

 

[RK47]

The First Melee ability , a generic +10 to both should be changed to 'Serbian Headstomp'.
A stunned / knocked down enemy takes triple melee damage.

For your HP upon losing 50% Health call it: 'Last stand'
When an attack is supposed to kill you, you regain 50% HP and +2 AP, this only happens once per battle so this can be very OP for the already OP ranged attacker or a suicide TNT bomber.

For good offensive, remember those annoying Bloodroots? Copy that shit. I would suggest replacing the 'Spend AP to get Dodge' with 'Crippling Strike'. Every melee strike you land removes 2 points of Dexterity from the target for one turn. This would stop those bursting bastards for sure with -3 AP in melee. Just stop giving your LMG guys DEX 10 to let this happen, yeah?

I would also restructure your tree a bit since Monster Lore & Witcher seems to be connected to Rifles for no good reason. Put that thing elsewhere, somewhere neutral so people don't waste time getting +10 Rifle just to gain access. I'd take away the '+10 Survival' and replace it with Monster Lore instead.

Someone suggesting pistol/melee & shield off hand is actually quite a nice idea. I always wonder how people wield shield while carrying a sniper rifle.

If you want to be mean and more annoying to rifle users, add a DEX penalty to carrying a heavy rifle around.
Big Rifle -2 DEX, the rest -1 DEX. That would actually make those sniper AI that loves to play peek-a-boo around tree less annoying. And some guns are of course light-weight (no penalty), and more expensive. Make it special!

Scoped Rifles should also get like 95% to hit penalty at close range (0-5 tiles)
Non scoped Rifles get 50% penalty
Shotguns are the exception to this.
To make the snipers less whiney, we give them something back: Rifle Butt, 5 AP, 1-5 damage as an alternate attack because we know they love to carry a super stim on the other hand.

 

[Technomancer]

HtH

What is that?

 

[RK47]

Hand to Hand

 

[Van-d-all]

Speaking of ability tree, I think all the +10 skill ones seem like a needless point sinks...

 

[razvedchiki]

Perks should not be linked but lvl based,still need more points per perk but not linked.

 

[RK47]

Perks should not be linked but lvl based,still need more points per perk but not linked.

I somewhat agree with this.
Like I've said before, taking Rifle on the way to Monster Lore (HP knowledge) and Witcher (Double damage vs Animal / Monsters) is worth it, but it makes people wonder what is the point of doing that.
Likewise, taking 10 survival on the way to better grenade range and no jams on crafted pistols? Not very intuitive.
In fact, if you just take all of the +10 skills away from the tree, no one would miss them.

The current ability tree system restrains creativity in builds and makes a niche perk, even more unreachable. A lot of unarmed perks suffer from this.

 

[jaydee2k]

Where's the GOG version? I want to finally be able to buy this game.

 

[Heretic]

Melee, pistols and automatic weapons should NOT be balanced to be equally viable, just like they are not in real life encounters.

 

[Van-d-all]

Melee, pistols and automatic weapons should NOT be balanced to be equally viable, just like they are not in real life encounters.

Melee weapons should be a dire alternative to not having/using ammo. Especially as ammo scarcity is actually nicely balanced early game, but as in Ressurection 1.5 it becomes a non issue at some point, which is sad IMO.

 

[Vrab]

If melee is meant to be a backup, then make it a backup. And even if not, condense the melee part of the tree, it's bloated way beyond reasonable.

On a related note, did you think of an ability that would make nearby enemies receive massive penalty to hit with firearms? On top of the penalty for shooting from close that some weapons get by default. It would seem believable that if there's a knife or chainsaw wielding opponent a meter or two away, aiming would be more difficult. To somewhat mitigate the danger of burst at point blank. It could replace the largely useless dodge bonus. I expect it would also make having a melee follower like Alexander more meaningful, also the dog if you throw an equivalent in somewhere there too. And make fights more tactical beyond forming a firing line.

 

[Van-d-all]

Actually all ranged weapons should get a penalty if there's an enemy in a nearby hex. You're not playing a grammaton cleric. Even AD&D has this, and it's far from even trying to be realistic.

 

[Vrab]

Sure, but this is somewhat present with weapon specific penalties, although I'm not sure how effective they are since I haven't used auto weapons or rifles yet. Maybe it needs to increase?

I was thinking of someone actively engaging in hand to hand combat and causing additional difficulty. Say ability description that would say "All enemies in a 2 (or 1 or howmuch) tile radius have their chance to hit anything with firearms halved."