Arcanum Arcanum is, by far, one of the worst *games* I've ever played... emphasis on "game" and not "RPG"

[Sigourn]

Lucas9 is, by far, one of the worst *posters* I've ever read... emphasis on "phaggot" and "retarded"

 

[Serus]

Arcanum is good for telling what kind of RPG player you are:
- "Inventory and pathfidning are shit, combat is unbalanced, 2/10"
or
- "The world is huge and original, the quests are varied, the story and writing are very good, 8/10"

i.e. you're an rpg player or an adventure gamer

Or perhaps a combatfag vs storyfag/immersionfag.

or perhaps an rpg player vs non-rpg player

If you are an RPG player who refuses to play a game because its combat is unbalanced or its UI is shit, then you shouldn't play any RPGs, hence you are... not an RPG player.

So I take it you are in agreement with me, that Arcanum is a good game.

If you like story or exploration or some good quest design or simply original settings in your CRPGs and can ignore other aspects completely then why not - good game.
If you like combat (or games that feel finished an polished and at least average in every major aspect of gameplay they attempt to create) then no. And don't pretend you don't understand it, you are no idiot.

I enjoyed Arcanum, played it twice, finished once but saying that combat is only "unbalanced" is not something i would expect for an intelligent poster on the Codex. Lack of balance is one of its many major problems, not even the most glaring one. Lack of enemy variety and no variety of their skills/attacks/behaviour, catastrophically bad encounter design or possibly just lack of any effort towards it because the game was never finished, the clusterfuck of rt/tb hybridization, no ai to speak of...
The world of Arcanum is perhaps "huge"* but also feels empty (with the exception of Tarant itself) and later half also feels unfinished in some places. Character creation/developement is great on paper - unfortunetely it falls a part the moment you start the game for obvious reason: most of stats/spells/schematics are designed with combat in mind - not quest solving - the same combat which sucks so badly.

*Is world Arcanum really big or well made ? To me it always felt rather small, artificial and somewhat empty. Particular locations are mostly well done (Tarant is good) but as a whole it... well sort of sucks. It always felt weird to me that the industrial revolution takes place literally in ONE city. The whole world consists of a ~dozen of cities... there is no illusion of there being much more as it should be, just places shown in game - very poor worldbuilding if you ask me.
I think the authors just copied Fallout 1 and 2 worldbuilding not taking into account that F1 and F2 takes place in a fucking post-apocalyptic wasteland ! To have only a dozen of towns scattered in an ocean of NOTHING actually makes sense when the world consist mostly of (radioactive) desert. But in Arcanum it doesn't make sense. Not at all. Not even remotely.


On the other hand, Arcanum setting and lore is original (for a computer game at least) and many quests are well done. Writing is also not bad. The world feels half empty at times but is very interesting to explore despite it.
For some strange reason i like this game, the combatfag i am screams "no, shit !" but i like it. Never calling it a "good" game. "Enjoyable against odds", "(over)ambitious", "frustrating", "a lost opportunity", "deeply-flawed masterpiece" or simply "unfinished" perhaps but never simply "good".

 

[Sigourn]

I don't understand why the discussion "what kind of player are you" even arised. If anything, Arcanum is good for telling who has more patience to deal with annoying stuff and who doesn't. Admittedly, if Arcanum was something like Baldur's Gate I would have dropped it immediately because high fantasy RPG is the subgenre I hate the most, and the clunky mechanics and interface wouldn't help at all.

I really like the RPG elements I've come across so far. I particularly enjoy how extensive (by comparison to other games) the dialogues are when it comes to using your speech skills. It was entertaining trying to pick the right options when talking to those thieves by the bridge in Shrouded Hills, since essentially you were the one choosing what to say as opposed to New Vegas' "[SPEECH 25] I'm with the Thieves Underground", so it really felt like you were making up things as you went and thus was more immersive.

Despite the huge problems I have with the mechanics and the interface, I still think it is a game worth playing, particularly if you are an experienced RPG gamer (which I'm not) who can pick up things more easily than I.

 

[Excidium II]

At least I'm not an Arcanum fan. Raising my self-esteem ITT

 

[naossano]

No, the combat does not work like in Fallout at all. You had to keep your finger over the "start turn-based combat" button, that was terrible. Also everyone had a million movement points, so only very crude tactics were meaningful.

Yeah, I don't mean it is exactly like Fallout, but the concept is still the same: actions take action points. You reminded me of another criticism I have to make.

- No indicator whatsoever about whether you are playing real-time or turn-based. Meaning you could have gone real-time to kill a few rats, and only to later get your ass handed by wolves because you forgot to go back to turn-based.

Fuck off. This is how you can tell a newfag. I guess you played it last year for the first time?

"My nostalgia googles prevent me from accepting valid criticisms."


1997:

1997:

And is that an arrange button I'm seeing? How preposterous!

I prefer the first inventory, not just because it is Fallout, but because you actually see those items, not just their name.
I prefer actually seeing the things i have in my pockets that scroll down a list of names that don't tell me that much. (especially if there is many of those names)

 

[Excidium II]

I prefer actually seeing the things i have in my pockets that scroll down a list of names that don't tell me that much. (especially if there is many of those names)

???

"names that dont' tell me that much" Are you stupid? The name is what tells you wtf the thing is. A bunch of palette swapped ammo piles are completely meaningless until you inspect to see the name and memorize which one is which type.

 

[Serus]

In crpg i like to see items, in roguelikes (traditional ones) a list of names is ok. No big deal if you ask me but i believe a WELL drawn inventory can be a real pleasure to the eye (graphicwhore!).

Edit: Calm down Excidium II - a list with "first aid kit" and a a picture of a first aid kit is the same thing for all practical purposes. If you can make one as practical in use as the other there is no difference. Except one looks nicer and the other leaves more room to imagination i suppose :D.

 

[Sigourn]

I prefer the first inventory, not just because it is Fallout, but because you actually see those items, not just their name.
I prefer actually seeing the things i have in my pockets that scroll down a list of names that don't tell me that much. (especially if there is many of those names)

I understand what you mean and I too like to see the items. Then again, Fallout 3 gave us this:

And if it had a sort feature and item descriptions (by pressing another button), it would be pretty much perfect for me. I really miss item descriptions in New Vegas.

 

[Excidium II]

Edit: Calm down Excidium II - a list with "first aid kit" and a a picture of a first aid kit is the same thing for all practical purposes. If you can make one as practical in use as the other there is no difference. Except one looks nicer and the other leaves more room to imagination i suppose :D.

It is not the same thing. A picture doesn't tell you anything useful until you've read the text and made the associations. And a text-based list is more space efficient, letting you see more things and also leaving horizonal room for listing important stats.

Seriously a list of item pictures is like the worst of both worlds, might as well make a grid.

 

[Ninjerk]

might as well make a grid.

 

[Excidium II]

If you're gonna use pictures.

 

[Ninjerk]

Which you should.

 

[Excidium II]

not.

 

[Neanderthal]

Fallout 3 inventory were fuckin retarded, avin to look at your fuckin wrist to pull out a shotgun, illogical popamole bullshit. If tha wants a good inventory look at Ultima or Witcher, fuckin tight, order as you like it, see where everythin is at a glance, all on one screen an it makes sense. Still Arcanums better than console list bullshit.

 

[Sjukob]

Literally what?

Exactly !

Fanboys, fanboys never change.

What I meant to say was , with topics like those you can bring somewhat interesting discussions to GRPG forum ( well at least Irenaeus III have succeeded with baiting ) .
Oh , but look . You are so triggered , by this topic , that you just have to spit around .

 

[gestalt11]

Arcanum is a game for people of taste, who can appreciate the ideas, forgive the execution, and place the game in the context in which it was released, instead of just being a bunch of crybabies. Irenaeus played vanilla PoE and liked it, so seeing him complain of Arcanum is a bit of a paradox.

However, I find Arcanum to be fitting the description of "a classic" - a game I like to praise, but I would have a hard time convincing myself to sit down and actually play it.

I like the aesthetic of the game and how it is more than just an aesthetic: the world is believable, I especially like that part of the main quest where you learn about the steam engine. It's such a shame the game has so god awful mechanics, because other than that, it actually managed to grab my attention even more than the original Fallout (which granted I play mostly because I feel I have to, given my love for New Vegas9. Rate my RPGs to play list btw.

BTW, I've often imagined what it would have been like if Arcanum could have a complete remake that just fixes all of its interface-, and mechanics-related issues. So I guess on the whole I agree with you. But I'd never bash it.

I never complained of Arcanum, friend.

Yes, sorry. I even edited my post before you said that.

I still have hopes for a kickstarter someday - "Arcanum 2 - The Jazz Era".

I would fund this. Put in some magical fucking gangsters and rough dwarven teamsters. You'll never find the bodies when they get buried by dwarven teamsters.

 

[thesoup]

The parrot is more interesting than this entire thread...

As opposed to your contributions to this thread and, indeed, the whole forum.

Quality thread.

It is pathetically boring to be honest...

This is actually a good description of your posting history. Now, while I don't have anything against you as a person, I have yet to see a single post of yours that was original in thought, insightful, funny, entertaining or generally memorable in any way, shape or form.
Instead, I could easily write a script for a bot to replace you that would respond in a dozen or so manners to people on the forum and no one would notice a difference. Here is a few samples of what you (shit)post 90% of the time:
-shitty arty images in the "post random images" thread
-quoting join date
-writing "who the fuck is [user name]?" when someone with a relatively new nickname and / or little or no reputation posts something you don't agree with
-blogging about food
-blogging about handsome guys you saw a moment ago
-whilst blogging, you will be overly enthusiastic and emphasizing seemingly MEANINGLESS words for NO reason to emphasize SOMETHING
-quoting user with the "butthurt detected" emoticon

There's probably a few more, but I can't remember any more atm.
Granted, as this thread shows, discussion is mostly worthless as it usually revolves around two circlejerks throwing feces at each other and everything worth saying about most crap has already been said, but it's no excuse for being a passive aggressive hypocrite.
You like to call others shitposters, but you are one of the worst posters I have ever seen. I mean you're not the dumbest poster or whatever, you just lack any personality in your posts, like a bot who has been programmed to believe it is not a bot.

 

[evdk]

The parrot is more interesting than this entire thread...

As opposed to your contributions to this thread and, indeed, the whole forum.

Quality thread.

It is pathetically boring to be honest...

This is actually a good description of your posting history. Now, while I don't have anything against you as a person, I have yet to see a single post of yours that was original in thought, insightful, funny, entertaining or generally memorable in any way, shape or form.
Instead, I could easily write a script for a bot to replace you that would respond in a dozen or so manners to people on the forum and no one would notice a difference. Here is a few samples of what you (shit)post 90% of the time:
-shitty arty images in the "post random images" thread
-quoting join date
-writing "who the fuck is [user name]?" when someone with a relatively new nickname and / or little or no reputation posts something you don't agree with
-blogging about food
-blogging about handsome guys you saw a moment ago
-whilst blogging, you will be overly enthusiastic and emphasizing seemingly MEANINGLESS words for NO reason to emphasize SOMETHING
-quoting user with the "butthurt detected" emoticon

There's probably a few more, but I can't remember any more atm.
Granted, as this thread shows, discussion is mostly worthless as it usually revolves around two circlejerks throwing feces at each other and everything worth saying about most crap has already been said, but it's no excuse for being a passive aggressive hypocrite.
You like to call others shitposters, but you are one of the worst posters I have ever seen. I mean you're not the dumbest poster or whatever, you just lack any personality in your posts, like a bot who has been programmed to believe it is not a bot.

Joined:
Oct 13, 2011

 

[imweasel]

Arcanum is far from a bad game, but it is definitely overrated on the Codex. Very overrated. It is like everything that Fallout is, except steampunk-like and kind of shitty.

And now I shall take my leave before the Arcanum fanboys lynch me.

 

[Trashos]

I understand what you mean and I too like to see the items. Then again, Fallout 3 gave us this:

.

This is OK for consoles, but on PC it looks like a Braille system. It wastes a lot of space and is very inefficient in scrolling or finding what you want. I definitely prefer Arcanum's inventory.

 

[Excidium II]

It is absolutely terrible, even on consoles. Games from over 20 years ago managed better.

 

[cherry blossom]

Ease of accessibility, conveniences and comforts; these are the things that define this new generation of ungrateful little shits. You know it when their opinions hinge on such trivialities to the point of redundancy.

It got this part of interface wrong or that aspect of combat broken and looks shit and whatnot. You are absolutely correct. I myself was baffled by how they managed to make such a mess of such and such.

But here is what: If your main concern while going into the game was those things and now you are coming here to complain about it, you are... well, not seeing the forest for the trees. Mostly, those are the things any game can get better and neither will raise an otherwise mediocre game to being good. Arcanum clearly had other priorities. It's no accident that the Troika logo forgoes "Art" and "Code" to settle on "Design".

If you couldn't catch onto the quality of world building, quest design, characterizations that stand out from among the entire computer roleplaying catalogue, you ought to review yor priorities. I have played and enjoyed many a good games that did one thing or another so much better and I admit I find it rather hard to go back to Arcanum but at the same time, I haven't played anything quite like Arcanum that explored so many different things and left such a good overall impression on me with all the things it did so well. It is more than the sum of its parts and it is telling that those who don't like the game are grasping at shit like inventory design or harm spell or BMC and whatnot with barely a mention of quest design, characters or writing.

I wish I was in a position to bitch about inventory design after being spoiled to death with an abundance of well designed coherent games of similar caliber. For a comparison, when Oblivion came out, the shitty consolized interface (which is, coincidentally, a text table some are keen on praising here and now) was the least of my issues.

You don't have to like the game, but when you fail to take notice of the blaringly good things about it, well, it doesn't speak too good about your character and your priorities now, does it?

To the critical eye that feasts on good design, Arcanum is a gold mine. That is infested with giant scorpions.

edit:
And let's be fucking honest; inventory management is nowhere near so terrible in Arcanum. When I played a technomancer gunslinger crafter that collected and carried all sorts of shit, it still was perfectly managable. Not ideal, not terribly convenient but nowhere near anything to put my item management obession on high gear to justify such spoiled whining. I've had so much fucking worse from othet games to this day. When your priorities lie with the things that actually matter, you get over other issues.

 

[Ninjerk]

the shitty consolized interface (which is, coincidentally, a text table some are keen on praising here and now) was the least of my issues.

Get shit on Excidium II

 

[Excidium II]

The problem with consolized interfaces is having tiny lists sizes because every piece of text must be FUCKHUEG. Plenty of console games have icon inventories, go fap to those.

 

[cherry blossom]

Well, some are into bestiality and some, text tables, I guess.