After playing a lot of JRPGs, most CRPGs became tedious

[Thac0]

it's not as big a piece of the pie as you're trying to make it seem.

Well for me the use of music specifically is really important to the kind of emotional impact a work has, triply so for a storyfag work. Thus my focus on leitmotifs. And I thought that MRY 's claim was really good, since I never realised that Chrono Trigger does have extremely memorable sillhuettes and that they add to the character building, and that PST has the same, since that is never talked about. Might be accidental and a cause of just good visual character design in general, might be an additional inspiration.
Chrono Trigger is actually the single most influential JRPG among the Japanese people by polls, beating out Dragon Quest and FF for the Heisei era, so it could make sense that some influence comes from there aswell.

Also I am not believing you for one second that you knew before this argument that PST is inspired by FF, but at least you came off the spectacular amount of cope of "Why are you wasting your time finding evidence for why I am wrong"
I think we can end it at that.

 

[JDR13]

Also I am not believing you for one second that you knew before this argument that PST is inspired by FF, but at least you came off the spectacular amount of cope of "Why are you wasting your time finding evidence for why I am wrong"
I think we can end it at that.

Well, I guess when you've run out of bullshit, you can always resort to projection and putting words in someone's mouth like you're doing now.

 

[Rean]

Planescape Torment: baby's first JRPG

This is now committed into official Codex lore.

 

[dacencora]

Planescape Torment: baby's first JRPG

This is now committed into official Codex lore.

True. Before I played PST I wouldn’t touch JRPGs. It’s a real thing.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I don't know how I fucked up the quoting.

You can edit your posts to change that (top left near the timestamp of your post) and manually shift the [#Quote] or [#/Quotes] around to fix it. (- the #)

The forum also auto corrects a missing end quote [#/Quote] so to correct it you would have to delete the latest quote command and insert it where it belongs.
Maybe you just did not want to bother, but for the case of you being inexperienced with the message boards it may be worth to tell you.

I've seen that on some of my posts, but I didn't see it on the post I messed up on.

IIRC, members with less than a year since registration have only 5 minutes after completing a post in which to edit it, after which the edit button disappears. The various limitations that otherwise persist until the 1 year mark can be circumvented via

.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Maybe, just Maybe the genre description of JRPG, is fully retarded in the first place.

I am aware that genres per definition are not specific but the "JRPG" never made any sense as whatever a JRPG is seems to be so shallow that nothing seems to fit (apart of country of origin, which is a pointles distinction)

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

What are the JRPG elements of Planescape ?

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Haha, Thaco is such a sensitive faggot, can't even answer my simple question.

 

[Thac0]

Sreggin Etah I

I have written them out like 2 times over the last few pages...
This retardiation rating was not out of spite but out of sheer disbelief over the stupidity.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

PST is chock full with Japanese elements, FFVII esque 3D spell animations, characters have each individual themes which are used as leitmotifs in dialogue and story moments, unique character bound weapons and armor for each companion are all pretty rare in CRPGs and jrpg common stay.

Okay, you said 3 elements, and 3D spell animations isn't exactly a JRPG element, only unique to FFVII back then. So there aren't tons of JRPG elements like you claim to be. Planescape still plays and feels like a WRPG from top to bottom.

 

[Thac0]

Okay, you said 3 elements, and 3D spell animations isn't exactly a JRPG element, only unique to FFVII back then. So there aren't tons of JRPG elements like you claim to be. Planescape still plays and feels like a WRPG from top to bottom.

About half of the OST is specific character themes. These play in situations where your characters are relevant, most notibly when you talk to them.



Some general stuff on where the leitmotif came from and how it works.
Well PST has all of that, and it is absurdly rare in Western rpgs. There is no Imoen's Theme, no Morrigan's Theme, no Frank Horrigans Theme.
The only ones that do this to my knowledge are Bioware from time to time, there is for example Commander Shepherds Theme and Leliana's Song. Well it is no coincidence that Bioware is considered to be the best at making characters.

Themes add a lot to games, and specifically my favourite JRPG in Final Fantasy IV is the one that made them big.
This is Cecil's theme:

This is Paladin's theme:


Put Cecil's theme on 2x speed and you should see what is going on there.

I agree that most of the stuff that PST takes from JRPGs is minor and does neither harm nor help the game much. This however is massive, and it is the largest reason for why PST has the spot for the strongest characters in all CRPGs.
Morte would be half the character he is without Morte's Theme and how it subconsciously changes your expectation of him.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

I agree that most of the stuff that PST takes from JRPGs is minor and does neither harm nor help the game much. This however is massive, and it is the largest reason for why PST has the spot for the strongest characters in all CRPGs.

I think music themes helps but it's not the main reason. The characters in PST are weird (flying skull and a TV), they have backstory and tons of characterization that makes each one unique, the script size also helps. So i think the writting and the characters design is more important here, but the unique themes also helps.

Xenogears for example, doesn't have unique characters themes(execept for Grahf) but still has the best characters i have seen in any JRPG.

 

[Thac0]

Xenogears for example, doesn't have unique characters themes(execept for Grahf) but still has the best characters i have seen in any JRPG.

I have not played Xenogears terribly far yet, but I think it uses those liberally aswell.

It is legitimately hard to find a JRPG that does not, the Japanese know what is good and are in open adoration for Richard Wagner.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

I couldn't find the themes on youtube and so i thought the game didn't have it. Anyway, i still think writting and characterization is a lot more important. For example, Relm from FF6 has a amazing theme but the character is forgettable, probably because the game script and length was limited:

I have not played Xenogears terribly far yet, but I think it uses those liberally aswell.

And you should finish Xenogears, it's the PST of JRPGs imo:

 

[jackofshadows]

Even if character's themes were rare in western RPGs they sure as hell weren't rare in cinema. Rachel's song from Blade Runner comes to mind first to me, for example. Or Debora's theme from Once Upon a Time in America. It's not like JRPG authors invented that, lol. Small details aside, PST's JRPG resemblance is a wishful thinking, nothing more. Inspirations, when they are inspirations and not cover-word for ripping off are just that - inspirations.

 

[Thac0]

Even if character's themes were rare in western RPGs they sure as hell weren't rare in cinema. Rachel's song from Blade Runner comes to mind first to me, for example. Or Debora's theme from Once Upon a Time in America. It's not like JRPG authors invented that, lol.

YES! And no, we Germans invented that, and the whole world should copy it.
In modern cinema it is done less and less, since it is considered too on the nose, which is some premium jewish bullshit, but that is a different topic.

I couldn't find the themes on youtube and so i thought the game didn't have it. Anyway, i still think writting and characterization is a lot more important. For example, Relm from FF6 has a amazing theme but the character is forgettable, probably because the game script and length was limited:

In total the other factors are more important, but theme is a big buff you can basically get for free. Relm has large swaths of her backstory cut, so with a worse theme she would probably be completely unmemorable.

And you should finish Xenogears

I plan to, eventually. But time is always of the essence.

 

[JDR13]

And you should finish Xenogears, it's the PST of JRPGs imo:

Xenogears was ok. It's waaaay too long though, and the story is pretty convoluted at times. I don't think I could ever force myself to replay it.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

And you should finish Xenogears, it's the PST of JRPGs imo:

Xenogears was ok. It's waaaay too long though, and the story is pretty convoluted at times. I don't think I could ever force myself to replay it.

Did you play the Persona 2 duology ? i thought the story was good but the gameplay gets old fast, so i quit Innocent Sin after 20 hours but i want play it again for some reason, maybe i just want to see wtf was the Joker and

Spoiler

Hitler

shit all about. The story was convoluted nonsense but interesting at the same time.

I also heard that Eternal Punishment is a lot better.

 

[JDR13]

Did you play the Persona 2 duology ? i thought the story was good but the gameplay gets old fast, so i quit Innocent Sin after 20 hours but i want play it again for some reason, maybe i just want to see wtf was the Joker and

Spoiler

Hitler

shit all about. The story was convoluted nonsense but interesting at the same time.

I also heard that Eternal Punishment is a lot better.

The only Persona game I've tried is Persona 4 Golden, and I didn't like it at all. That series is a little too anime-flavored for my taste.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

You seem to like more dark and grounded games. I recommend Vandal Hearts, Vagrant Story and Tactics Ogre if you ever want to play another JRPG. There's no Anime in those games, and they're all pretty good.

 

[dacencora]

Did you play the Persona 2 duology ? i thought the story was good but the gameplay gets old fast, so i quit Innocent Sin after 20 hours but i want play it again for some reason, maybe i just want to see wtf was the Joker and

Spoiler

Hitler

shit all about. The story was convoluted nonsense but interesting at the same time.

I also heard that Eternal Punishment is a lot better.

The only Persona game I've tried is Persona 4 Golden, and I didn't like it at all. That series is a little too anime-flavored for my taste.

I’ve heard good things about the Persona 2 duology, but Persona 1 is a fully fledged SMT game with a spin on it. It’s even got first person dungeon crawling.

Persona 3-5 are pretty markedly different from the first 3 entries in the series. All that being said, I liked Persona 4 a lot. The best parts of the game were obviously the parts that were most SMT-based.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Persona 1 and 2 stories are convoluted as fuck though, i beat P1 and i was like: wtf was that all about ?

 

[JDR13]

You seem to like more dark and grounded games. I recommend Vandal Hearts, Vagrant Story and Tactics Ogre if you ever want to play another JRPG. There's no Anime in those games, and they're all pretty good.

I liked Vagrant Story quite a bit. Still have an original PS1 copy of it in fact. I never finished it though. I remember getting stuck on a boss I couldn't beat because I didn't have the right weapon or something.

I'm surprised there was never any sequels or remasters

 

[Paper]

I think PST is just what happens when you make a visual novel in an RTS engine (why though?).

could be a custom map for wc3 i guess, but not really a jrpg

 

[Nutmeg]

ensive play being WAY over rewarded

The game ranks you by turns taken.

It literally rewards aggression. Once you are skilled enough to clear on low ranks, the idea is to aim for higher ranks. Why does no one here play these games as intended?