Decline Your Most Hated Gameplay Elements? (poll)

[Lacrymas]

No balance allowed!
You don't have to use it anyway.

It's usually not that simple, though. For example, Fireball in D&D is overpowered, but it saves so much time and rounds, and is an answer to 99% of combat situations that you feel forced to use it. It was hilariously OP in Solasta where every second subclass gets it as a domain/subclass ability and you bombard the enemies before they know wtf.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

you feel forced to use it.

You don't have to act upon your feelings, y'know.

 

[NJClaw]

No balance allowed!
You don't have to use it anyway.

It's usually not that simple, though. For example, Fireball in D&D is overpowered, but it saves so much time and rounds, and is an answer to 99% of combat situations that you feel forced to use it. It was hilariously OP in Solasta when every second subclass gets it as a domain/subclass ability and you bombard the enemies before they know wtf.

I can't wait for the next content update to raise the level cap and give me the chance to spam fireballs even with my paladin.

 

[Lacrymas]

Those legions of one-shotable goblins don't help matters.

I can't wait for the next content update to raise the level cap and give me the chance to spam fireballs even with my paladin.

Exactly! Oath of the Motherland gives it even to Paladins, so I have 3 people in my group who can cast fireball rofl.

 

[Harthwain]

I find the lack of hate against overpowered abilities disturbing.

Like Hong said - some stuff being overpowered can be forgiven (for some players it could even be fun). Balancing the game with metagaming in mind is much bigger offense.

 

[V_K]

 

[Lacrymas]

Oprah-style game design.

 

[Thac0]

I never understood the issue with cooldowns. Underrail has them and they are fine.

They're bad because they force the player into a rotation: You'll always start with the strongest ability that also has the longest cooldown, and work your way downwards in order to maximize DPS. Instead of having all moves available at every turn, allowing the player to choose the smartest tactical choice for the circumstances, you will most likely have figured out the perfect rotation of moves and just keep going with that no matter what.

They're also a ridiculously arbitrary way to balance a game, see the absurd grenade cooldowns in Underrail. In what reality does it take 4 turns to reach for another grenade? If they are too powerful, just make them rarer and more expensive. Cooldowns are the lazy way out.

Still a lot of that can be alleviated by what octavius said in great execution.
Cooldowns of different lengths concurring with each other, skills that modify cooldowns either across the board or directly reset specific cooldowns, skills that increase enemy cooldowns and lock certain moves, if you play your cards right you can make fun combat with cooldowns.
Cooldowns in real seconds are a lot worse than cooldowns in turns, but then again all of RTWP is worse than TB.

I also don't think the "Auto-replenishing hp/mana" options means what happens in DM. I think it refers to games like e.g. Drakensang, where it is fully restored (almost) immediately after combat ends.

Drakensang gives out permanent wounds and ways to heal them liberally, and those do not get healed automatically. This means there still is attrition in the gameplay, so auto replenishes work again with great execution.

Spoiler

It doesn't make Drakensang's combat that much better however, the game does not have combat as its strong spot due to ridiculously weak enemies and bad camera/UI

 

[V_K]

Drakensang gives out permanent wounds and ways to heal them liberally, and those do not get healed automatically. This means there still is attrition in the gameplay, so auto replenishes work again with great execution.

I just couldn't think of another example off the top of my head. Wounds system was great, but it was more of a separate system, on top of hp/mana.
Also, what's wrong with Drakensang's camera? Of 3D third-person party-based games it was the one whose camera gave me the least trouble. It's nowhere near the horrors of NWN2 or DOS2.

 

[Trashos]

TB fundamentally is supposed to be about systematic approaches to combat. Cooldowns and ability rotations can be a part of that just fine. If the ability rotation is always the same, then there is a different problem (laziness in ability design or encounter design), not one inherent to cooldowns.

the absurd grenade cooldowns in Underrail

In Underrail you can chuck grenades every turn. But you have to design your character appropriately in order to be able to do that, and also have to take the relevant feats. If any character could do that, it would be terrible design.

 

[V_K]

The biggest problem with cooldowns is that they're everywhere. I can't think of a single game released in the past 10 years that's not a super obscure indie that wouldn't have cooldowns. And even super obscure indies are not immune.

 

[Hag]

Forced backtracking through places you have already cleared.

 

[Thac0]

Also, what's wrong with Drakensang's camera? Of 3D third-person party-based games it was the one whose camera gave me the least trouble. It's nowhere near the horrors of NWN2 or DOS2.

That's like saying out of all illnesses you prefer migraine, because it can't kill you as opposed to cancer.

 

[purupuru]

Particularily blobbers benefit from harsh saving system.

I agree that a harsh saving system is good in blobbers but I still voted for that one.
I think I interpreted the option in the vote as "being forced into a long sequence of difficult content without a saving function", like a super-long multi-stage boss fight that's heavily RNG reliant, or a railroad of multiple difficult encounters where you cannot back off. After all, if you can choose to retreat at anytime (like in most blobbers), then you can decide for yourself if the sequence of content is too long for you, and if you overextend that's not the game designer's fault.

 

[Momock]

Meh poll. To much choices like "this mechanic if/when this thing" when in other choices it's just "this mechanic". Should be more consistent.

For example instead of "puzzles with moon logic", the two options "puzzles" and "puzzles with moon logic". Instead of "crafting better stuff than the stuff lying around", the three options "crafting", "crafting better stuff than treasures/rare stuff" and "crafting better stuff than the stuff lying around" (I don't get this one... if it's basic items lying around it's normal they're shit. Whatever).*

And please don't say that it will be to much options, I mean look at that list, LMAO!

*By the way in DQXI the better equipement is found exploring, but you can make it even better perfecting it with crafting, so problem solved?

 

[Lacrymas]

If you include crafting in your game, make sure it's the only way to get gear. There is no best of both worlds here unless the crafting is rudimentary and only allows the crafting of consumables which are readily available at vendors. It could work if the only way to get consumables is through crafting.

 

[V_K]

I kinda liked crafting in Two Worlds where you just merge five basic swords to get one slightly less basic sword. It was cheesy and nonsensical, but it saved you both the hassle of collecting the right crafting components and the hassle of utilizing junk loot.

There is no best of both worlds here unless the crafting is rudimentary and only allows the crafting of consumables which are readily available at vendors.

In RoA, you could in principle buy potions - but they cost an arm and a leg and were in limited supplies. It also helped that herbs themselves weren't useless and could be consumed raw (some) or used with healing skills.

 

[CryptRat]

If crafting means you can use one plant either to poison your weapon, to make a poison bomb or to make an antidote then it's plain good.

At the exact opposite of the spectrum if you need to find two different plants which cannot be used for anything else to make an antidote it can get boring fast.

 

[mondblut]

Heh, stronk gamers like mondblut and V_K voted "Spinners". How can you not like spinners?

Of all the annoying dungeon "challenges" spinners are the most retarded. Doubly retarded in the age of automaps and compass. The game could just as well autopause for several seconds every once in a while. What's the fucking point?

 

[mondblut]

Modern looting, where you just vacuum everything up without looking at the loot because it's so fucking boring.

Right, because old school RPGs never did this

To be fair, many old school RPGs never bothered with "realistic" loot, and those who did (like goldbox games or ultima) quickly taught you to ignore everything that doesn't have a glowing outline or a * symbol under detect magic.

 

[mondblut]

The joy of losing an hour of progress after overextending into the dungeon is lost to them.

No shit, Sherlock.

 

[Darth Canoli]

It was hilariously OP in Solasta where every second subclass gets it as a domain/subclass ability and you bombard the enemies before they know wtf.

Seriously?
I thought that "everybody gets a fireball" thing was a joke.
At this point, the only answer is euthanasia...

Still, it has nothing to do with one overpowered ability, if everyone has it it's sawyerism.
So many people were mass murdered for far less over the course of history...

 

[JarlFrank]

Dialogue options are different from what your character says.

Annoying and literally pointless as far as I can tell.

"Please dear Lady! You look like a skilled adventuress! Can you help me out?"

1. Yes I can.
2. Sorry I can't.
3. I will think about it.

hmm I will politely refuse this man, 2 looks like polite refusal so I'll pick that

my char: "FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING RETARD NIGGER I DON'T WANNA BOTHER WITH YOUR COCKSUCKING QUEST FAGGOT"

... what

 

[Lacrymas]

It was hilariously OP in Solasta where every second subclass gets it as a domain/subclass ability and you bombard the enemies before they know wtf.

Seriously?
I thought that "everybody gets a fireball" thing was a joke.
At this point, the only answer is euthanasia...

Wizards get it always, Clerics of the Battle domain get it (this domain gets very questionable spells in general. Why not give it to the Fire domain?), Paladins with the Oath of the Motherland, and Fighters with the Spellblade subclass. So 4 out of the 6 available classes get it. And only Rangers don't get access to Wizard spells. Sorcerers will also obviously get it when they add them, so 5 out of 7. In effect, you can very easily make a group in which accidentally everyone can cast a fireball. That is enough to end probably all encounters in the game within 1 round.

 

[mondblut]

It was hilariously OP in Solasta where every second subclass gets it as a domain/subclass ability and you bombard the enemies before they know wtf.

Still, it has nothing to do with one overpowered ability, if everyone has it it's sawyerism.

Solasta is a 4th edition game?