X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[Zboj Lamignat]

Νο one called you anything

Yeah, I noticed that it wasn't me

 

[bonescraper]

And can you stop comparing XCOM and X-COM? They are two completely different games.

Excuse me, but that's just straight popamole decline talk, and dumb to boot. Don't compare Fallout 3 to previous Fallouts, it's a completely different game! One is fast paced action crpg with nice exploration and emotionally engaging liam neeson dad, the others more classic crpgs. yada yada yada

One is a fast-paced board-game with fun, tactical combat

I find that debatable. While it being a rather uninspired tactical jrpg with less offensive (=/= good) aesthetics is, unfortunately, a fact.

And codex has changed a lot, hasn't it? People attacking a declined, consolized clone of an absolute PC classic being called edgelords

You are an edgelord. Jasede is right, this is a different game with different core design ideas and what not. You don't like it, yeah we got it. Everything else is you trying hard to be edgy and "monocled". Well, i never played Disgaea, because it's a console game, so i guess that makes you a consoletard. Why would i listen to a consoletard?

Also, Doom is popamole dumbed down shit. If you want to play serious FPS, ArmA is the only valid choice.

BTW, i don't get why most of you talk about the original X-Com as something that's supposed to be this deep, intelligent tactical strategy game. It's fucking not, it's actually quite basic and simple. Complexity isn't what made X-Com great. FiraXCOM is actually deeper in a few areas than the original.

 

[bonescraper]

"Simulationism". Get off your high horses people. Only JA2 1.13 comes close to being simulationist.

 

[Alienman]

Well, we are getting Battle Brothers.

 

[Jasede]

A few? There are a ton of things from the old game I miss in the new one, but a few is almost an understatement. The skills and skill trees alone are a great addition, as are the classes. It's nice how promotions now give more than a morale boost. You can no longer groom yourself 20 supersoldiers with maxed stats because of the broken way you increased skills in the original. Armor actually does something. Aliens cooperate better and there are many more mixed missions to keep things interesting. There's more some important choices with trade-offs to made in the Geoscape. Where do I put the satellites first? What continent bonus do I want to get when? Is it worth letting Japan panic if it means I can grab 4 early engineers? There's a great variety of actions to be taken in combat, and climbing up pipes and ladders adds more z-level depth. It's nice how stunning aliens is kind of tricky vs just spamming the thermal shock bomb on anything that moves from a safe distance. Mind Control is more diverse and has more applications - while being less blatantly OP as it used to be. Some old depth is missing, and I can see how that can be annoying, but it's hardly anything that isn't compensated for. No more Aimed Shot? Well, get a Sharpshooter. Can't bring 24 alien grenades to the battle anymore? Boohoo. Gee, I could go on.

They're both pretty good. Maybe the one is more casual at first glance, but... it isn't really, not when you have Impossible, Ironman and Long War to keep you busy for years.

 

[Zeriel]

My face when I beat Open X-COM recently on Superhuman to prepare while edgelords whine about how this game is different.

Haha, wait. There are people here who think X-COM is harder?

 

[Inspectah]

I think X-COM is harder. Sure, late game you can spam mind control and win, but till you get there, it is way harder not to loose people

 

[Zeriel]

I think X-COM is harder. Sure, late game you can spam mind control and win, but till you get there, it is way harder not to loose people

"Oh no, I lost people."

He says as he shoves 10 more rookies into the meat grinder.

 

[Mustawd]

I think X-COM is harder. Sure, late game you can spam mind control and win, but till you get there, it is way harder not to loose people

"Oh no, I lost people."

He says as he shoves 10 more rookies into the meat grinder.

I always struggle with finding tactics games that allow you, psychologically speaking, to continue the game after wiping out a squad or most of a squad. X-Com probably did this better than any other game I can think of.

 

[Zeriel]

I think X-COM is harder. Sure, late game you can spam mind control and win, but till you get there, it is way harder not to loose people

"Oh no, I lost people."

He says as he shoves 10 more rookies into the meat grinder.

I always struggle with finding tactics games that allow you, psychologically speaking, to continue the game after wiping out a squad or most of a squad. X-Com probably did this better than any other game I can think of.

I like that aspect of the game, and really if you get right down to it X-COM is a far more memorable game to me than XCOM and holds a more privileged place in my heart, but that's very separate from pretending it's a difficult game. The ONLY difficulty spike I remember in it playing it even for the first time was base defense and when you go after the aliens.

I guess it did labor under the issue of being permanently set to Easy for all players in the 90's who ever saved their game, but what can you do.

 

[Mustawd]

Yeah, not arguing that it's harder. Just it's one of my favorite aspects of the old game. There's pro and cons on each side, but it's definitely more memorable the way X-com did it. At least for me that is.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Everything else is you trying hard to be edgy

Uh-huh, and what on earth does pointing out the fact that nuXCOM directly copies many basic mechanics from certain type of console games (in response to an absolutely silly claim that it's not a console influenced game) have to do with being edgy? Before you shit out another "witty" reply - that was a rhetorical question.

Why would i listen to a consoletard?

Written while whiteknighting a console game

BTW, i don't get why most of you talk about the original X-Com as something that's supposed to be this deep, intelligent tactical strategy game. It's fucking not, it's actually quite basic and simple. Complexity isn't what made X-Com great. FiraXCOM is actually deeper in a few areas than the original.

Hey, you've got a nice discussion with yourself going on here, I won't interrupt.

 

[Jasede]

Heh, I'll bite, because I'm feeling like being entertained while I wait for the game to unlock.

What basic mechanics does the new XCOM copy from which console games? And how do you reconcile this with the fact that XCOM 2 is a game developed specifically for the PC only?

I await your lengthy list of mechanics that are copied from console trash with bated breath. It should be easy since the game is so obviously console popamole.

 

[Zombra]

God damn it.

* Set Power Settings to High Performance so computer won't go to sleep while I'm at work
* Left Steam running
* Checked email immediately upon getting to work, received GMG keys
* Installed Steam on work computer violating company policy
* Activated keys
* Uninstalled Steam
* Researched remote installation
* Logged in to Steam community website using Steam Guard code activated via email
* Went to correct page in Games list
* Couldn't find XCOM 2
* Triple checked procedure, made sure I was on correct page
* Did further research and learned that for a preload the Steam client must be restarted to recognize the game proper instead of the preorder placeholder
* Looked at clock
* Instituted plan to continue glumly looking at clock throughout work day

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Heh, I'll bite, because I'm feeling like being entertained while I wait for the game to unlock.

What basic mechanics does the new XCOM copy from which console games? And how do you reconcile this with the fact that XCOM 2 is a game developed specifically for the PC only?

I await your lengthy list of mechanics that are copied from console trash with bated breath. It should be easy since the game is so obviously console popamole.

Bite reading my posts, wise guy

 

[Jasede]

Quote them or link them, then. Or state a few short examples. I mean, if you don't, that's basically like admitting you don't have any arguments. Don't expect me to search this thread with Codex's non-functioning search to find some arguments that you may or may not have made a page or more ago. You are the one claiming something; therefore it's on you to back your claim up.

Unless you are referring to this... marvelous nugget of wisdom here:

Well, it is. nuXCOM is a Disgaea with a "strategic" layer tacked on and weaboo inanity exchanged for a UFO theme.

Actually, scratch that. nuXCOM is a declined Disgaea. Despite ripping off absolute basics like move/action instead of ap or iron 4 items "inventory", Disgaea at least allowed for decent squad sizes and didn't need dumb, arbitrary special rules for enemy ai to operate on in order for the game to not fall apart completely as soon as the first engagement starts.

Disgaea. You are... comparing this game to... Disgaea. A game from the Final Fantasty Tactics school focused on grinding and stat optimization, filled with hundreds of different classes and monsters and a square-based combat system. You are saying, with a straight face, that Disgaea's combat system that has no cover, a completely different melee and AoE ability focus, a tile and element based system - has things in common with the new XCOM, a game focused on small squad tactics in small urban environments. Let's not even get into how basic line of sight is in Disgaea, or the non-existant aiming or reaction system, the fact that you honestly feel like they have any similarity at all is absolutely baffling.

The move/attack/dash system is amazing. It adds so much depth, in a different way than TU did. You have to make hard choices. Do I dash him into full cover, risking finding more aliens? Do I try to take a small step so I can make a shot, not certain what the odds will be? Should I shoot twice or move to a better spot to have a better shot next turn? Limiting what you can do - in this case going from TU to this - makes the game more interesting, not less. Now you have to make actual trade-offs. With TU you can basically do whatever you like with no consequence. You can even shoot the same alien 9 times if you have enough for 3 auto-shots! And you are legitimately saying this was in any way a good decision?

Let me not even begin to talk about how bringing up the unit size from Disgaea, a game from the Final Fantasy tactics school focused around leveling up characters with barely any strategic layer, to an urban combat board-game-esque simulation like XCOM is frankly insane. Those things could not possibly be more different. Of course the inventory is smaller. You say consolified - I say making hard choices and trade-offs. In the new XCOM, inventory slots are precious and your choices meaningful. Bringing an extra grenade or medkit can make the difference between a successful mission and a wipe. In old XCom you basically bring everything and the kitchen sink. 40 grenades? No problem. 10 medkits? Coming right up! Flares for everyone! Why not a grenade! No, two! And a proximity grenade, and a smoke grenade and, and, and.

How are you even possibly comparing these things? You must be senile. I especially like the dumb, arbitrary rule for enemies part in your 'argument' which, as an old X-Com classic veteran, I read as "I don't know how to deal with alien overwatch and cover, this game is dumb."

Learn the new rules and play by them and don't complain if the old ones aren't working if you are playing a new game. You are basically the guy bringing an AD&D character sheet to a D&D 5 game and complaining why nobody likes you.

 

[Zeriel]

Didn't you know? On the internet, "proof" is just stating your opinion with certainty. If I say XCOM 2 is a console game, it is, because I said it is. :^)

 

[Trash]

Well, we are getting Battle Brothers.

Games have always been crude imitations of reality at best. What makes a game great is not in how well it succeeds in doing that. It is in how much fun it generates through doing that. The original succeeded because it had so many aspects that simply gelled together brilliantly.

I absolutely adore BB. Not because it is a simulation but because the aspects ranging from art to setting to gameplay mechanisms form such a coherent whole.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Um, so these

marvelous nugget of wisdom

are your glorious arguments that are my undoing?

Exchanging a PC tactical game AP template with console tactical game move/action template.

Exchanging a PC tactical game inventory template with console tactical game inventory template.

Add to that exchanging a PC tactical game shooting template with console tactical game shooting/attacking/using skill template.

Three absolutely basic and crucial mechanics that are 100% tactical jrpg despite this being an XCOM game coupled with them trying to get console market do not prove anything, hurrrr.

Then there's the fact that they've actually pussied out of copying the more "hardcore" (for the lack of better terms) tactical jrpg parts and instead introduced stuff like arbitrary ai rules to make the game even work (biggest sin in my book, since the original was so tightly designed), but that's another point completely.

 

[Jasede]

"Guys, what is this dumbed down Theme Hospital trash, where are my attractions and fry stands from Theme Park!?"
"Oh my God, this X-Com Apocalypse game is terrible. where is the Geoscape and what is with this dumbed down real-time combat!?"

 

[Zeriel]

It's kind of hard to capture the console market when you aren't even releasing a game on consoles, but what do I know.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Uh, I'm not talking about XCOM 2? Jesus.

 

[Jasede]

^^^


Everyone point and laugh.

 

[Mustawd]

Jesus Zboj Lamignat

 

[Jasede]

For his next trick, the great Zboj will tell us how recent console trash release Fallout: New Vegas ripped off Metal Gear Solid 3.